Slippery slope for ‘slick’ Rick

[TVDOC]

GWB debating the dull-as-a-butter-knife Al Gore is just no comparison to debating Obama.    The man is a great speaker, and it makes no difference if he needs TOTUS to do it or not, debating is where he shines in the charisma department.    Perry stumbling over his words, and/or otherwise being incoherent is not going to work, or gain any support from independents when the two are directly facing each other. 

I was referring to GWB's awful debate performance during the primaries.....you further would be rather gullible to consider Obama a "great speaker".......or just a lousy judge of orators.  Back to debate performance, although he has little chance of gaining the nomination, Gingrich is far and away the best debater amoung our group, none of the others even come close.

I think the immigration issue will doom Christie alone.    The NRA stuff - meh, he was running in a blue state, there are limitations to what you say when campaigning.  That is just reality.

If you reread my comments, you'll find I was referring to Perry's immigration problem.......just so you're aware, most of us consider 2nd Amendment the "tripwire" where judging a candidate begins.....if they even smell like a gun controller, no thanks........try to keep up.

A far right conservative would never get elected in the Northeast, or pretty much any blue state.   That again is reality.   

This is exactly why a "blue state" conservative is the last person we need heading our ticket....we call those politicians "democrats" in most of the rest of the country.

doc

[formerlurker]

I was referring to GWB's awful debate performance during the primaries.....you further would be rather gullible to consider Obama a "great speaker".......or just a lousy judge of orators.  Back to debate performance, although he has little chance of gaining the nomination, Gingrich is far and away the best debater amoung our group, none of the others even come close.

If you reread my comments, you'll find I was referring to Perry's immigration problem.......just so you're aware, most of us consider 2nd Amendment the "tripwire" where judging a candidate begins.....if they even smell like a gun controller, no thanks........try to keep up.

This is exactly why a "blue state" conservative is the last person we need heading our ticket....we call those politicians "democrats" in most of the rest of the country.

doc

Wow, touchy.

I have been a political junkie my entire adult life.   Stating that Obama is not a gifted speaker says to me you are blinded by your ideology.  

I have lived in many places in the "rest of the country"  -- so your attempt to school me is falling short.  May play to the audience though so by all means have at it.  

I was referring to GWB's awful debate performance during the primaries...

Your comments:

 

I'd remind you of GWB's abysmal debating skills throughout the 2000 election cycle.  Followed by his even worse performance during speeches as the newly elected POTUS......it was embarrassing, but he overcame it.

We can't afford to wait for Perry to get his sea legs in the debating department.

[Eupher]

Lurker, at the risk of "being part of the audience to which doc is playing to" ( ), from the time Barry first came to the national fore, i.e., at the 2004 Dem Convention, I never could understand how ANYBODY could consider him to be a "gifted speaker."

We are talking opinion now, aren't we?

I'm leery of most politicians anyway, and when I heard Barry flap his gums at that keynote address, the first thought that crossed my mind was, "This guy is as phony as a $3 bill." His "hope and change" mantra rang hollow to me. His wistful alternating with pointed style of speaking looked rehearsed, plastic, very Romney-like in its insincerity.

Being a "gifted speaker" is strictly in the ears of the beholder. Due to Barry's complete falseness - and that was a perception I had from the get-go - I'd lump him in with the "don't waste your time listening to this chump" crowd.

[CG6468]

I have been a political junkie my entire adult life.   Stating that Obama is not a gifted speaker says to me you are blinded by your ideology.  

Ideology? 

He is a gifted bullshitter, and a lying one at that. A gifted speaker doesn't stutter, mumble, or blather "uhhhh, ummmm, errrrr, ahhhhhhhhh" etc.

[DumbAss Tanker]

NJ went blue in 1992 and hasn't looked back:

http://www.270towin.com/states/New_Jersey

I honestly can't find anything from him on gun control.

That link only shows electoral college votes, which of course aren't split at all, unlike the voting in the state itself.  "50-50" would be meaningless in the context of the EC alone.  While she was definitely a Jersey Republican, you may recall Whitman was elected Governor in '93 and the current Governor is GOP, your response is rather misleading since until going to the link it isn't clear you shifted the basis of your point from the electoral make-up of the state to simply the Electoral College results.

Would Conservatives in the rest of the US still turn out to vote for a NE RINO fiscal-only conservative GOP candidate?  Probably, for the most part, if unenthusiastically and with their campaign contributions going to the equally-important Senate races.  Would such a candidate actually win any major blue states away from Obama?  I wouldn't bet on it.   

[formerlurker]

Lurker, at the risk of "being part of the audience to which doc is playing to" ( ), from the time Barry first came to the national fore, i.e., at the 2004 Dem Convention, I never could understand how ANYBODY could consider him to be a "gifted speaker."

We are talking opinion now, aren't we?

His comments went a little more than "I disagree,"  or "I have a difference of opinion."

I was referring to GWB's awful debate performance during the primaries.....you further would be rather gullible to consider Obama a "great speaker".......or just a lousy judge of orators. 

I'm leery of most politicians anyway, and when I heard Barry flap his gums at that keynote address, the first thought that crossed my mind was, "This guy is as phony as a $3 bill." His "hope and change" mantra rang hollow to me. His wistful alternating with pointed style of speaking looked rehearsed, plastic, very Romney-like in its insincerity.

Being a "gifted speaker" is strictly in the ears of the beholder. Due to Barry's complete falseness - and that was a perception I had from the get-go - I'd lump him in with the "don't waste your time listening to this chump" crowd.

I am thinking in this case you need to remove the message from the messenger. 

[youtube=425,350]eWynt87PaJ0[/youtube]

I don't see plastic here at all.   The audience was engaged, and it was because of this performance he was tapped for POTUS.   

I remembering watching this when it happened, and I got goosebumps listening to him.  Uh-oh, this one we need to watch.    Of course at that time I thought the DNC would groom him for a while for bigger things. 

I think his speaking ability is the reason he is president - he had absolutely NOTHING else to offer.  People believed him, and we are seeing the fallout of that in those who are so stunned they were taken.   

Throw Perry up against him?  people won't be listening to the message because the stark difference between the two will be too great to ignore.

[formerlurker]

That link only shows electoral college votes, which of course aren't split at all, unlike the voting in the state itself.  "50-50" would be meaningless in the context of the EC alone.  While she was definitely a Jersey Republican, you may recall Whitman was elected Governor in '93 and the current Governor is GOP, your response is rather misleading since until going to the link it isn't clear you shifted the basis of your point from the electoral make-up of the state to simply the Electoral College results.

Would Conservatives in the rest of the US still turn out to vote for a NE RINO fiscal-only conservative GOP candidate?  Probably, for the most part, if unenthusiastically and with their campaign contributions going to the equally-important Senate races.  Would such a candidate actually win any major blue states away from Obama?  I wouldn't bet on it.  

From the Duke to Cadillac Deval, MA had a Republican governor.    MA is most definitely a blue state, although central MA is very moderate conservative.

The link had electoral and popular vote listed.    

I don't know about the independents standing with Obama, especially if the right GOP candidate is a choice for them.    While I don't think we are at the anyone-but-Obama stage, I do think that a good alternative will be very attractive for independents to realistically consider.

[formerlurker]

Ideology?  

He is a gifted bullshitter, and a lying one at that. A gifted speaker doesn't stutter, mumble, or blather "uhhhh, ummmm, errrrr, ahhhhhhhhh" etc.

You mean like Perry?  

Seriously?

A gifted speaker engages and connects with the audience.   I was Perry's audience and I didn't see that.   We aren't talking about substance here, that is why I mentioned ideology.    

[formerlurker]

Lurker, at the risk of "being part of the audience to which doc is playing to" ( )

One last thing, I assumed we could have a disagreement of opinion without the nastiness.   My comments were in response to what I read, mirroring language that was most unnecessary to make a point.   

[Eupher]

I am thinking in this case you need to remove the message from the messenger.  

[youtube=425,350]eWynt87PaJ0[/youtube]

I don't see plastic here at all.   The audience was engaged, and it was because of this performance he was tapped for POTUS.

All you're saying here is that the Dem audience to which you're referring (okay, I guess there were a few others like yourself and myself who are either political junkies or were simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time) was guzzling the Kool-Aid.

I remembering watching this when it happened, and I got goosebumps listening to him.  Uh-oh, this one we need to watch.    Of course at that time I thought the DNC would groom him for a while for bigger things.

Goosebumps?  Good God, Lurker, those should've been Horrorbumps or Disgustbumps! How can any rational person have been transfixed like that?

I think his speaking ability is the reason he is president - he had absolutely NOTHING else to offer.  People believed him, and we are seeing the fallout of that in those who are so stunned they were taken.  

And that right there is the tragedy we are seeing. People actually fall for hollow rhetoric and apparently are collectively incapable of separating wishful thnking from stark reality.

Chumps, one and all, who fell for this bullshit.

[Eupher]

One last thing, I assumed we could have a disagreement of opinion without the nastiness.   My comments were in response to what I read, mirroring language that was most unnecessary to make a point.   

Nothing nasty at all about my comment -- merely responding to your own comment. Here it is again, just in case you missed it:

I have lived in many places in the "rest of the country"  -- so your attempt to school me is falling short.  May play to the audience though so by all means have at it. 

I happen to value doc's opinion on several issues, just as much as I value yours. Looks to me you're the one with thin skin here. So I just wanted to make clear that I'm one of the ones to whom doc is playing as I'm part of the audience on this thread.

[formerlurker]

All you're saying here is that the Dem audience to which you're referring (okay, I guess there were a few others like yourself and myself who are either political junkies or were simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time) was guzzling the Kool-Aid.

Goosebumps?  Good God, Lurker, those should've been Horrorbumps or Disgustbumps! How can any rational person have been transfixed like that?

At that right there is the tragedy we are seeing. People actually fall for hollow rhetoric and apparently are collectively incapable of separating wishful thnking from stark reality.

Chumps, one and all, who fell for this bullshit.

I got goosebumps at his speaking ability.    Young guy who sucked them in within minutes.   Granted, the DNC conventions are the equivalent of a bunch of drunks partying together, but they were totally into it.  

I get so frustrated with intelligent folks I know who despise Sarah Palin, but will not under any circumstances give her credit for her speaking ability.   The lady is VERY gifted.   Again, someone who could have been groomed to be big time.   She was tapped too soon.   Hindsight being 20/20 of course.

[formerlurker]

Nothing nasty at all about my comment -- merely responding to your own comment. Here it is again, just in case you missed it:

I happen to value doc's opinion on several issues, just as much as I value yours. Looks to me you're the one with thin skin here. So I just wanted to make clear that I'm one of the ones to whom doc is playing as I'm part of the audience on this thread.

I meant nasty to doc's comments not you -- sorry.  No thin skin, just mirroring the language in his post which I just wanted to explain to you why I wrote that. 

[Eupher]

I meant nasty to doc's comments not you -- sorry.  No thin skin, just mirroring the language in his post which I just wanted to explain to you why I wrote that. 

OK.

[CG6468]

You mean like Perry?  

Seriously?

A gifted speaker engages and connects with the audience.   I was Perry's audience and I didn't see that.   We aren't talking about substance here, that is why I mentioned ideology.

Please point out where I said Perry was an eloquent speaker. That never happened. I don't even like Perry and have not since I've known about him.

The socialist/commie gets raves from his unionista supporters and other libs, and their madhouse clapping and screaming are what engages him. He never talks to any other kinds of groups, at which you would hear a pin drop.

He's a stumble**** speaker who can't talk his way out of a paper bag.

[Erasmus]

We can't afford to wait for Perry to get his sea legs in the debating department.

Better Perry than Romney.

[DefiantSix]

Better Perry than Romney.

+1.

I'll take a Texas RINO over a nor'eastern RINO any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.