grouchy old primitive has a couple of questions for teachers

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1961209

Oh my.

The grouchy old primitive.

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Sun Sep-18-11 02:39 PM
Original message
 
Teachers, I have a couple of questions for you

I have been doing some research and reading quite a bit about the subject of Critical Thinking Skills and I can't seem to find the answers to the questions I was looking for put into simple layman's terms which I am able to understand.

You guys are around students all the time so I thought you would be the ones to ask these questions to. So here they are.

Are Critical Thinking Skills something someone either has or does not have?

Are Critical Thinking Skills something that can be taught?

Well, those are the two questions I have.

Thanks in advance if anyone can answer them. And please put any answer that goes beyond beyond yes or no, into simple layman's terms which I can understand.

Don

Electric Monk  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. They can be taught, and they can be learned

But apparently "critical thinking" isn't taught, learned, or practiced, on Skins's island.

patrice  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. I have seen lots of students just light up when they were first introduced to Psychology.

I taught Psychology as Science, though students enjoyed speculation and free-thinking they also tolerated the (critical thinking) disciplines of of science, because they enjoyed Psychology so much.

Sancho  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message

3. Critical thinking....

Even though there is a lot of debate over exactly what you call "critical thinking", "creative thinking", and "higher-order thinking"; most evidence is that students of average intellectual abilities can improve "thinking" with practice and activities targeting those types of thinking. There is also good evidence that students who don't get a chance to practice do not use their heads as much as adults. It's better if the "critical thinking" that you're referring to is defined carefully, and you plan exactly the kinds of exercises that aim at that thinking. For example, a person may practice "elaboration exercises" as part of "creative thinking" or "problem solving strategies" as part of "critical thinking".

Some parts of a person's cognitive abilities (types of intelligence) seem to have a genetic component that is inherited, but exactly how much is debated.

There is a lot of poor research and political spin, but there are some pretty good researchers that appear to have demonstrated the benefits of specific educational practice on later thinking...

patrice  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. I have seen LOW performing readers struggle with Edgar Allen Poe, because it was POE and they WANTED to be able to read him.

Think about the critical abilities needed to get through Poe's monster-huge sentences, not to mention vocabulary.

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Sun Sep-18-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
6. Ever have any higher performing readers that Poe didn't result in the same success?

FarCenter (1000+ posts)     Sun Sep-18-11 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
 
5. Laboratory work in the sciences helps

Especially if the students have to figure out and explain what went wrong with their experiments.

readmoreoften  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. Yes, it can be taught. Teaching students logical fallacies, particularly the formal fallacies is a great way to get them to criticize their own arguments. Critical thinking is at its root self-criticism and the analysis of received ideas. Such independent thinking is the ground for creative thinking. I disagree with the idea that all teachers are responsible for critical thinking, at least at the college level. (At the elementary level, however, I see the point.) An anatomy and physiology teacher in a lecture course of 200 people is teaching subject matter. Hopefully, the critical thinking skills are already there. A chemistry professor at the college level is teaching his or her subject matter. Moreover, college profs get very little (if any) training to be teachers so burdening them with being the sole enhancers of "critical thinking" is just a bad idea.

At my university, students must take a separate course designed to enhance critical thinking skills. And believe me, they need it.

immoderate  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
 
9. College students should achieve a higher level of CT. And doctorals yet again.

But ultimately, does a person have the tools to determine truth?

College students may do well in class and be totally suckered by bullshit every day.

I taught math in every grade (mostly middle school, but included 9th and 10th grade math.) And I most enjoyed getting off the curriculum and into topics like Fermi math, chaos, complexity, etc. I directed students to create a display of instances where math is used to mislead or deceive people.

Some kids are natural, (born or whatever developmental reasons) and others, not so much, but can get better.

Some people are just blocked because they cannot confront their deep beliefs. But they can be real critical of everybody else. This is a matter of psychology. Some people work that way. change is possible, but unlikely without a "conversion" experience.

glowing  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
 
8. I think it may be easier for some students to grasp certain concepts a bit easier than others

However, it can be taught. When it was actually taught back in the 90's (I'm not sure it is taught anymore?), the entire class had to learn the different methods of reasoning and logic. AND analyzing was different than critical thinking. There was no one who was excluded from any of the exercises. And from what I remember, everyone was able to add to the discussions when it came to using these skills to interpret different subjects.... AND many kids, some who were normally in the "C" and "D" levels of many subjects, could offer some really neat insights and thoughtful discourse that even the teachers and the study guide material had not thought of. Some of the coolest subjects and discussions came about from those who were better at art... Perhaps the ability to look at different subjects and material with a different minds eye was the edge that they needed.

I think most people can be taught these logic/ reason skills. I wonder how many of the newer teachers have these skills anymore.. or the TfA programs?

lsewpershad  (826 posts)      Sun Sep-18-11 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
 
10. Guess the appropiate question

Why so many in our society lack critical thinking skills,

No, I guess the appropriate question is, why are the primitives trying to discuss something about which they know not?

[ChuckJ]

I taught Psychology

A member of DU taught psychology? Wow.

[GOBUCKS]

lsewpershad  (826 posts)      Sun Sep-18-11 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
 
10. Guess the appropiate question

Why so many in our society lack critical thinking skills,

Hmmm. Ending a sentence with a comma like that is a trademark of nutcase nadin.

As is the air of assumed superiority, and the awkward ESL phrasing.

You don't suppose... Nah. But keep an eye out for this noob.

[DumbAss Tanker]

It's fairly obvious that only a couple of the responders actually understand that 'Critical thinking' is actually a thing in education/training theory and practice, instead of just making up a meaning for it to fit in with their own humanities/soft-science backgrounds.  There were even one or two good, correct answers but whether Don would be able to pull them out of the pile of useless mush his question generated remains to be seen.

[BlueStateSaint]

I thought that this primitive was hinting at something else:

patrice  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-18-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. I have seen lots of students just light up when they were first introduced to Psychology.

Maybe . . . getting electric shocks because they didn't select the right answer?

[Doubleplusungood]

Its obvious that critical thinking is something you have or don't have. DUmmies lack critical thinking, because if they possessed the ability they would be forced to stop being libtarded in about 10 seconds.

[JohnnyReb]

Critical thinking skills for those times when you don't have anyone to do your thinking for you.....you can get 'em at the DUmp for free.

...and for DUmmies playing "You Bet Your Life", the secret word is in bold.

[formerlurker]

Uh, had to Nadin "critical thinking" to see what the flavor of the month is in educational theory.

"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness"

So in short -- executive functioning skills (which allows you to become a critical thinker) is something you are born with. Some people are quite delayed in this area which can affect every aspect of their life.    While they may be delayed, they can certainly be taught tools to help them overcome their deficits.

That all said, the bigger question actually is how many public school teachers are critical thinkers? 


Answer:  not many

[JohnnyReb]

Uh, had to Nadin "critical thinking" to see what the flavor of the month is in educational theory.

"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness"

So in short -- executive functioning skills (which allows you to become a critical thinker) is something you are born with. Some people are quite delayed in this area which can affect every aspect of their life.    While they may be delayed, they can certainly be taught tools to help them overcome their deficits.

That all said, the bigger question actually is how many public school teachers are critical thinkers? 


Answer:  not many

Isn't that what we used to call "commonsense"?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Isn't that what we used to call "commonsense"?

In the simplest way it kind of is. 

What can be taught to people is in the nature of 'Adjusting their sights' and think more big picture about things, and think through all the consequences; world militaries have done this kind of 'thought training' in their professional schools for a couple of hundred years, more or less successfully.  It's not entirely inborn, yet it does come a lot more easily to some than to others.  But, by working through problems and scenarios in a structured environment people who don't have the gift can improve their abilities on this. 

It has a lot to do with the fact that people don't all think things through the same way, for instance if you've ever done the Meyers-Briggs test you can get a lot of self-awareness about how you process information yourself, as well as understanding why you may not be reaching other people who don't process data the same way.

[Splashdown]

Critical thinking can be taught the same way chess strategy is taught.

DAT gets it right (as usual) with his response. It's a matter of looking at steps and following thoughts to their conclusion and evaluating possible outcomes.

[FlaGator]

Most amusing. A bunch of people who lack critical thinking skills discussing the ability to teach and learn critical thinking skills.

"Physician heal thy self"

[RWKindaGuy]

Critical thinking can be taught the same way chess strategy is taught.

DAT gets it right (as usual) with his response. It's a matter of looking at steps and following thoughts to their conclusion and evaluating possible outcomes.

Like one huge flowchart.   

[GOBUCKS]

DUmmies lament "critical thinking" as a smear against us rethugs.
We don't know how to do it.
That's why we voter against our best interests.
DUmmies are smarter.
That's the whole point of this thread.

[TVDOC]

.
DUmmies are smarter.
That's the whole point of this thread.

Err.....

Dummie "immoderate':

I taught math in every grade (mostly middle school, but included 9th and 10th grade math.) And I most enjoyed getting off the curriculum and into topics like Fermi math, chaos, complexity, etc. I directed students to create a display of instances where math is used to mislead or deceive people.

I'm gonna throw a flag on this one......

I simply can't envision a teacher explaining chaos theory to a bunch of fourteen year-olds, they simply don't have the math background to have the foggiest idea of what is being discussed........plus:  "math is used to mislead or deceive people"  would only apply to someone who doesn't understand it......hardly an appropriate teaching method.

doc

[GOBUCKS]

I taught math in every grade (mostly middle school, but included 9th and 10th grade math.) And I most enjoyed getting off the curriculum and into topics like Fermi math, chaos, complexity, etc.

Were this not a bouncy tale, which it is, it might help explain why these kids will graduate from high school while still unable
to understand simple algebra.

In reality, this post is from a DUmmy freshly returned from Googleland, where he mined a few mathematical terms to impress his fellow DUmbasses.

[NHSparky]

Most publik screwel edjumacation stoodints don't even know how to do much beyond fractions.  You don't even want to know how many guys I run into in a supposedly "techinical" field who can't even do trig.

And funny how it is we haven't heard from the best "edjumacaturs" evar, Pam and the dysmenopausal sow.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Err.....

I'm gonna throw a flag on this one......

Yeah.  As happens all too often in their bouncies, the writer has forgotten the cardinal rule of fiction writing, and exceeded the readers' bounds for 'Willing suspension of disbelief.'

[RWKindaGuy]

Err.....

I'm gonna throw a flag on this one......

I simply can't envision a teacher explaining chaos theory to a bunch of fourteen year-olds, they simply don't have the math background to have the foggiest idea of what is being discussed........plus:  "math is used to mislead or deceive people"  would only apply to someone who doesn't understand it......hardly an appropriate teaching method.

doc

Actually, it makes perfect sense if the teacher's understanding of math is based on 1+1 = potato.