Author Topic: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"  (Read 1480 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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How many times have we heard that at DU as justification for whatever absurd legislative / regulatory gimmick? It has been used to justify "green energy" (apparently the energy exerted to shift large sums of public money from the government to select constituencies) to nationalized health care to rules that crush domestic energy production while paying despotic regimes that have no such rules to banning toys in Happy MealsTM.

Well, last I checked, the US federal budget was $3.2TN annually set against a $13TN annual GDP with $1.7TN of that spending being straight deficits. That is straining the historical 19% limit of GDP that can be consumed in marginal tax rates before a nation's economy stagnates and buckles.

Defense spending, at its height of fighting 2 protracted regional wars, takes roughly 25% of that. National infrastructure (not to be confused with state and local), the USPS etc run about another 10 to 15% depending on who does the categorization. That means easily 60% of our ruinous spending falls outside of the federal government's constitutionally mandated / authorized purview, this is stunning considering that deficit spending is roughly only 40% of that spending. In other words, get rid of the crap the feds have no business writing a check for and not only do you get rid of the deficit you would have a surplus and be be well under the 19% of GDP taxation limit.

One might argue that once we were under that 19% limit the economy would be so robust as to obviate the need for all those government services that are supposedly required to protect against economic misfortunes.

But here's the thing: whenever we're told "because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated" why does no one ever use this phrase with social welfare? From what I've seen this multi-trillion dollar a year industry is all but unregulated (like abortion. the other sacred liberal rite. Go figure). No one really sends inspectors around to this receiving federal stipends to see how the money is being used. There's no demand for accounting such as transaction receipts. There are no community service standards, i.e. if 2 mothers are unemployed one must provide daycare for the other to find and hold a job.

Why is this?

We already know the cost to society: it's bankrupting us. If we wholly disarmed the military overnight stipends to the unproductive and regulations on the productive would still crush us economically. If society must pay for the productive why can't we demand something in return for our payments? If we accept a limit on the productive why can we not demand an assessment or accounting of that limitation to determine if it is worth our while? Why can we not regulate those who are manifestly destroying our economy and with it our society?

I'd love a lurker to illuminate this subject for us.
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Offline Rugnuts

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Re: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 10:40:19 AM »
technically there is no federal budget
its just that the Continuing Resolutions and Appropriations add up to that $3.2tr


Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 11:14:20 AM »
Well, MSB, it IS highly regulated, but the purpose of the regulations have nothing to do with limiting the total cost of the program, only with ensuring that people getting into it meet the statutory gates and the people running it follow all the rules and management controls laid on them...NONE of which takes any direct account whatsoever of the total program cost.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 11:26:58 AM »
Well, MSB, it IS highly regulated, but the purpose of the regulations have nothing to do with limiting the total cost of the program, only with ensuring that people getting into it meet the statutory gates and the people running it follow all the rules and management controls laid on them...NONE of which takes any direct account whatsoever of the total program cost.

In high school, way back in the early 60's, I read the Saturday Evening Post, Life and Look magazines in the library. In one of them, I remember reading about the then welfare system. They had drawn a little cartoon to go with the article. It was a machine into which the government poured lots of money and as it passed thru the machine at different points government workers were getting dollar bills from it....until at the very bottom, the poor people it was supposed to help got pennies.

If I remember correctly, I think at that time, it took 97% of the money to run the agency and the poor got 3 cent of every dollar that went to the agency.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 11:35:48 AM »
Well, MSB, it IS highly regulated, but the purpose of the regulations have nothing to do with limiting the total cost of the program, only with ensuring that people getting into it meet the statutory gates and the people running it follow all the rules and management controls laid on them...NONE of which takes any direct account whatsoever of the total program cost.

One would think that "statutory gates" and "management controls" would be based and motivated viability. After all, if the program to alleviate economic hardship creates so much economic hardship that it increases its own rolls to such an extent it creates a death spiral effect the first question ought to be "is our statutory gate initially set up to invite those who otherwise should not be permitted?" and "will our management controls keep down costs to avert an economic death spiral while attending to those properly permitted through the statutory gates?"

I know many would dismiss this as fantasy land thinking but if you went back in time to suggest a welfare state to the people of the US they would have laughed it away as a fantasy land. Someone changed the narrative enough to create the preconditions for the welfare state. What can be changed can be changed back.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 11:47:15 AM »
I know many would dismiss this as fantasy land thinking but if you went back in time to suggest a welfare state to the people of the US they would have laughed it away as a fantasy land. Someone changed the narrative enough to create the preconditions for the welfare state. What can be changed can be changed back.

...and therein lies the secret of how to differentiate blue state from red. Dismantle the federal welfare system and the blue states will try to continue them all at the state level at state expense. Red states will support only the truly needy. The deadbeats will flee the red states for the easier blue state freebies....then the blue states go bust...Civil War...and we take them over also....it's Roves' plan.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: "Because the potential cost to society are too high it must be regulated"
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 12:10:51 PM »
One would think that "statutory gates" and "management controls" would be based and motivated viability.

THAT's why you will never be a Congressman.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.