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Offline GCBill

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What if YOU were Lenin?
« on: August 22, 2011, 01:42:47 PM »
Quote
steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
   
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?

What if Batman and Robocop got in a fistfight? What if you could build a rocket ship to Mars out of bread bag ties, leftover spaghetti, and a can of Aquanet?

Quote
nadinbrzezinski
Sun Aug-21-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Listen to Trotsky and eliminate Stalin
   
that be a good first step

Listen to Trotsky, realize he is as full of **it, and THEN eliminate him as well?

Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. As somebody who has been deep in readying political economy
   
I understand that Sweden can be a socialist state and NOT be a marxist state. You don't.

I also understand that by a modern definition of SOCIALISM both Smith and Ricardo are socialists...

I also get it, Americans for the most part do not get this.

I also understand Americans do not understand that Marxism is NOT the only form of socialism.

Or that it precedes Marx.

Or that we had a FORM of it in the 1950s... we were very close in form to a social democracy.

But you keep trying... right now people in this country realize NEO LIBERAL (Fascist) policies, do not benefit them, and as they look for OTHER ALTERNATIVES some will discover the PANOPLY of forms of socialism... and also that a very well regulated market place, which is very CAPITALIST< but anathema to neo liberals. No, a regulated market is not a centrally planned economy before you throw that canard at me.

Have a very good day... you really need to read Smith by the way... and I mean this, READ IT.


So Nutty Nadin is a suporter of Adam Smith now?

Quote

nomb (537 posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. Well, I guess claiming Adam Smith as a Socialist and the USA as a "form of it" means Marxism won.
   
I guess I'll just continue to disagree until some future Marxist of your fantasy gains power and sends an agent of the State over to my house to shoot me.


Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Ah thanks for this
   




Thanks for showing what you are really afraid off.

Is that red baiting? Yep.

Quote
nomb (537 posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
109. Your dream killed 100 Million of my fellow man last century. Mao, Castro, Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Il-su

We have a winner! Somebody understands what socialism is best at!

Quote
stevenumbers Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. my thoughts so far:
   
1- No violence whatsoever for any reason.
2- Retain the Constituent Assembly
3- Remove Stalin from any associations with the movement
4- Listen carefully to Rosa Luxemburg
5- Build popular support amongst the people with honest information
6- Adhere to democratic principles at all costs
7- Disband any attempts at any Cheka or secret police
8- Strongly encourage industrial development

If they are going to do everything the OPPOSITE of whet they did, they never would have lasted. No violence, no secret police, honest information? Those bloodthirsty savages were incapable of that.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 01:48:05 PM »
Quote
steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
   
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?
I've read this story.  Everyone dies at the end.
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Online jukin

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 01:50:31 PM »
Hate to break it to you DUmb, DUmbasses but by it's inherent nature communism/socialism/fascism (the same collectivist ideology with faint differences in flavor) will cause misery but spread around better and the death of tens of millions of innocents. Collectivist ideologies will always take the human condition back generations.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 01:53:32 PM »
Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
I also understand that by a modern definition of SOCIALISM both Smith and Ricardo are socialists...

I also get it, Americans for the most part do not get this.
If Ricardo is a socialist, then Lucy has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

Aren't you just grateful that nutcase nadin has such patience with stupid Murkins?

And that she is totally, absolutely oblivious to what an offensive, arrogant, condescending, ignorant bag of hot air she is? A de facto idiot.

You have to sort of pity the poor DUmbasses who are afraid of her, especially the few who have enough intelligence to sense her condescension.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 01:55:14 PM »
What a bossy old cow.

Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. As somebody who has been deep in readying political economy
   
I understand that Sweden can be a socialist state and NOT be a marxist state. You don't.

**** you, Nads.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 02:01:43 PM »
I would shoot Stalin, Trotsky and then myself.... :-)

Hey, killing was what it was all about wasn't it?
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Offline FreeBorn

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2011, 02:04:41 PM »
Quote from: JohnnyReb on August 22, 2011, 02:01:43 PM
I would shoot Stalin, Trotsky and then myself.... :-)

Hey, killing was what it was all about wasn't it?
Damn, beat me to it, Johnny!
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"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin; And how do you tell an anti-communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." ~Ronald Reagan

Offline Karin

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2011, 02:08:44 PM »
Regarding Sweden, Nadin says:

Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 02:04 PM
Original message
Oh for ****s face they consider themselves a socialist state
:rotf:

DUmp Link  There's the link, I didn't see it up there.  It's a pretty big fire.  Muriel Volestrangler smacks Nadin.  

Nadin is extra arrogant in that thread, a real bitch.  She's been going around the internet saying that Adam Smith was a Commie.  She keeps repeating it. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 02:11:03 PM by Karin »
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2011, 02:13:36 PM »
Quote
steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
   
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?

Jay-zeus!!!  This is like asking a two-year old what he could do to personally pay off the national debt in 5 years.  The biggest difference between V.I. Lenin and the moron mob on Skinner's Island of Misfit ****-ups is that Vlad put down the bong and got out of mommy's basement once in a while.  These shitheads would need some strong-stomached paramedics to surgically remove their asses from the computer chair.
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Offline GCBill

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2011, 02:17:56 PM »
Quote from: Karin on August 22, 2011, 02:08:44 PM
Regarding Sweden, Nadin says:
 :rotf:

DUmp Link  There's the link, I didn't see it up there.  It's a pretty big fire.  Muriel Volestrangler smacks Nadin.  

Nadin is extra arrogant in that thread, a real bitch.  She's been going around the internet saying that Adam Smith was a Commie.  She keeps repeating it. 

Thanks for throwing the link on. Maybe it's time for a break from the DUmp - Grovelbot IS eating my brain!
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 - Alan Greenspan, The Assault on Integrity (1963)

Offline delilahmused

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2011, 02:19:05 PM »
Ok, don't we now have to add an expert on Socialism/Communism to her resume? Or financial theory or something since America had it in the 50's without even knowing it. Bet even DUmmies enjoy the Nadin expert thread.

Cindie
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Offline ChuckJ

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2011, 02:55:24 PM »
Quote from: delilahmused on August 22, 2011, 02:19:05 PM
Ok, don't we now have to add an expert on Socialism/Communism to her resume? Or financial theory or something since America had it in the 50's without even knowing it. Bet even DUmmies enjoy the Nadin expert thread.

Cindie

Her resume as becoming kind of like the DUmp version of Chuck Norris Facts.
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Offline Karin

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2011, 02:59:53 PM »
Quote
nomb (539 posts)      Sun Aug-21-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #71
96. Castro's Cuba starved the people for years recently in order to feed the military and Elite.
Quote
tama (1000+ posts)     Sun Aug-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
135. Don't know about that
 but I know that when the special period happened with soviet collapse and Cuba practically lost all access to oil, nobody starved to death, health and education systems did not collapse, the country made u-turn to small scale organic and sustainable farming and people adopted a healthier diet of mostly veggies and little meat.

Fainting in the fields from lack of protein.  This is why I hate liberal moonbats like this.  Look at that justification.  They may have been a little hungry, but that's just dieting for a healthy lifestyle! 

**** You. 

Interesting read, watching the commies come out of the woodwork. 
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2011, 03:33:27 PM »
Knocking off the psychotic Stalin in favor of Trotsky would certainly have been amusing, but probably just as lethal for the Soviets in the 20s and 30s.  In addition to an equally bad outcome for collectivization, rather than Stalin's cynical, calculated and highly randomized terror, there would have been a Reign of Terror much like that in post-revolution France, driven by sincere Communists rooting out all vestiges of nonconforming thought even more ruthlessly than Stalin did.  Brutal pig of a man that he was, Stalin killed and enslaved to gain uncontestable power, so there was a limit (A very big one) to how far even he would go.  A Trotskyite regime would have been driven to the same excesses in the name of honest ideological purity, which really knows no bounds.
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Offline Karin

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2011, 03:41:40 PM »
Quote
TBF  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #176
202. ... I'm willing to negotiate to get rid of capitalism,

Oh you are, are you?   How generous and kind of you.  Go to hell, commie. 

My hat's off to Imajika over there, for fighting the good fight against the red tide.  She may be a DUmmie, but she is no communist, and her arguments were clear and forceful. 
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 03:49:42 PM »
Nutcase nadin is on a roll:
Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Did I say Marxist> No, I said SOCIALIST
go back to school. They do not mean the exact same thing... and no, I will not take the time to teach you.
 


Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #149
151. I now understand you really have no fracking clue
what you are talking about.



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #158
162. No, not even close
you really need to go take those basic courses



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #198
204. If that is what you take
you really need need to get your head out of the sand...

Go take some classes, you really need to

 

Quote
nomb (539 posts)      Mon Aug-22-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #207
209. Your arrogant condescending attitude reminds one of a Political Officer who alone holds the "Truth"

  
 
Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #209
211. Asking you to go take a course is condescending?
WOW!!!!!



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #196
205. THE SDP IS A SOCIALIST PARTY
one of the oldest in fact.. JAYSUS you are really THAT FRACKING IGNORANT?



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #208
210. My lord you are still that ignorant

I'm beginning to lose my affection for know-it-all nadin.

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Offline Chris_

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 03:51:36 PM »
She seems a little unstable.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 03:53:21 PM »
....and I thought I had known some know-it-alls.....sheeeesh.
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"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline delilahmused

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 04:17:56 PM »
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nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #196
205. THE SDP IS A SOCIALIST PARTY
one of the oldest in fact.. JAYSUS you are really THAT FRACKING IGNORANT?

Yeah, cuz what a communist dictator calls his one party government is exactly what it is. That's why Democratic People's Republic of Korea is such a paradise everyone is flocking there. Heck so many people want in they have to strictly control their borders...oh wait.

Cindie
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2011, 04:24:32 PM »
Quote from: chris_ on August 22, 2011, 03:51:36 PM
She seems a little unstable.

She just needs the warmth and affection of a good heavy duty battery-powered device to level her out.  Too much to ask of any guy to take one for the team on that score, I'm afraid.
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Offline Erasmus

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 04:27:41 PM »
Socialism, Marxism,  blah blah blah...  very fine lines indeed, and both destined to failure.  Attitude toward property rights might differ slightly, as well as what one does with undesired portions of the population, but in large, they're two peas in the same pod.
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Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 04:43:25 PM »
The DUmmies believe in reincarnation, I'm sure at least 50% of them were Lenin in a previous incarnation.
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Offline Carl

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2011, 04:49:48 PM »
Quote
stevenumbers Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. my thoughts so far:
   
1- No violence whatsoever for any reason.
2- Retain the Constituent Assembly
3- Remove Stalin from any associations with the movement
4- Listen carefully to Rosa Luxemburg
5- Build popular support amongst the people with honest information
6- Adhere to democratic principles at all costs
7- Disband any attempts at any Cheka or secret police
8- Strongly encourage industrial development

I love this little list of idiocy.

Marxism is not possible given human nature so will always morph to communism which requires authoritarian rule,violence and brutal enforcement.

Btw steve,leftism of any variety can`t ever stand the test of honesty,you have to lie to suck people in.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2011, 04:50:58 PM »
Quote from:
steve2470

Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
  
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?

I'm sure the Russians appreciate kook anti-American trash discussing what they would have done if they were Lenin to ensure the lives of all Soviet citizens would be miserable for hundreds and hundreds of years.

.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2011, 05:15:17 PM »
Quote
tama (1000+ posts)     Sun Aug-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
135. Don't know about that
 but I know that when the special period happened with soviet collapse and Cuba practically lost all access to oil, nobody starved to death, health and education systems did not collapse, the country made u-turn to small scale organic and sustainable farming and people adopted a healthier diet of mostly veggies and little meat.




I love these teary eyed Socialists.

Watch No Reservations, Cuba. As much as Tony Bourdain attempted to shine a positive light on the country, the decay and rot of Socialism has destroyed it.The lovers of baseball have a wonderful stadium to go watch their teams in. Just don't mind the fact that none of the lights for night games work anymore. Don't bother worrying that half the roof is gone, no bother, it's a tropical paradise!

Wanna work? There's tons of foreign restaurants opening up, but if you are Cuban, you have no hope of EVER eating in one. You, comrade, can't afford it.

Be like Tony. Those half falling down buildings? Call them beautiful, but don't mind the gaping holes in them.

While the spirit of the Cuban People is alive and well, Castro has done a bang up job of turning it into a shit hole.

Oh, BTW, Bourdain NEVER left Havana, I wonder why? 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 05:17:27 PM by Wineslob »
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