Why not include tax in total cost?

[compaqxp]

I was thinking today after running out to the car to get 10 cents extra to pay for an iced tea, that this listing the price without tax is old.

The iced tea was listed as 0.99 cents but we all know that's not the true price, so in my head I have to do Cost+HST+Deposit or 0.99+15%+0.10 which comes out to 1.23$

Now my question is instead of going through all that BS, why can't the price of things just be listed with taxes and other fees? What I mean is if I see something with a tag that says 1.23$ then that is the exact amount I pay.

Do any places do things like this? I can't see any logical reason not to do this.

[RightCoast]

Because it costs too much to change the signs every six months as the tax keeps going up.

[thundley4]

I was thinking today after running out to the car to get 10 cents extra to pay for an iced tea, that this listing the price without tax is old.

The iced tea was listed as 0.99 cents but we all know that's not the true price, so in my head I have to do Cost+HST+Deposit or 0.99+15%+0.10 which comes out to 1.23$

Now my question is instead of going through all that BS, why can't the price of things just be listed with taxes and other fees? What I mean is if I see something with a tag that says 1.23$ then that is the exact amount I pay.

Do any places do things like this? I can't see any logical reason not to do this.

I like the fact that you see one price and then are charged another with the tax added in.  It reminds everyone how much the government is taking from them.  Too bad gas isn't done the same way.  Imagine seeing the sign saying gas : $3.15/gal. , then getting to the pump and seeing the actual price is much more.

[LC EFA]

Marked prices here include GST (VAT or whatever you want to call it) and deposit where applicable.

I didn't realise prices in the US didn't include tax until I actually bought something over there.

[franksolich]

I rather like the idea of keeping the tax distinct from the cost of the product.

And perhaps manufacturers and retailers also feel the same.

In fact, I think it should be mandatory to quote the retail price, and the taxes on it, as two separate items.

If a package of cigarettes is simply priced at $4, one curses the money-grubbing tobacco companies.

But if it's priced at $2.50, and then an additional $1.50 in taxes, one is made more aware of who the money-grubber is.

Ditto for gasoline, alcohol, and whatever else where the tax isn't cited separately from the retail price of the item.

This is something that needs to be done more, not less.

[franksolich]

Marked prices here include GST (VAT or whatever you want to call it) and deposit where applicable.

I didn't realise prices in the US didn't include tax until I actually bought something over there.

There's a reason for this, at least insofar as sales taxes are concerned.

There was a famous court case in Nebraska during the late 1960s, after Nebraska had instituted a sales tax.

Some merchants were charging the sales tax per individual item, when the sales tax was intended to be cumulative, not per-item.  As one can imagine, the per-item sales tax is always more than the cumulative sales tax. 

What I recall of it was that some were being charged one cent tax for each of two 15-cent items (this was a long time ago, remember; when 15 cents was something), when the state sales tax said that the tax on 30 cents was one cent, period.

The court said the sales tax was to apply to the total amount of purchases, not per item.

In compaq's cited example above, if he purchased other items besides just the iced tea, probably the iced tea should cost him only $1.19 instead of $1.23, or whatever.

[Wineslob]

I rather like the idea of keeping the tax distinct from the cost of the product.

And perhaps manufacturers and retailers also feel the same.

In fact, I think it should be mandatory to quote the retail price, and the taxes on it, as two separate items.
If a package of cigarettes is simply priced at $4, one curses the money-grubbing tobacco companies.

But if it's priced at $2.50, and then an additional $1.50 in taxes, one is made more aware of who the money-grubber is.

Ditto for gasoline, alcohol, and whatever else where the tax isn't cited separately from the retail price of the item.

This is something that needs to be done more, not less.

Here in Cali, there is a sticker usually on the gas pumps so you can see the (35 cents per gallon I believe) tax the Feds get.
                                  Fed     State

Breakdown:      California 35.3  15.2    Fed and then State I believe.  The damn Feds make GROSS profit off gasoline.

Teh eeeebil Oil Companines sure don't.


http://www.californiagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

[franksolich]

Here in Cali, there is a sticker usually on the gas pumps so you can see the (35 cents per gallon I believe) tax the Feds get.

Wow.  We don't have that here; just the total price, period.

And only a vague idea that the total price includes a substantial chunk for the government.

I think we should have that here, too.

[NHSparky]

I've heard it said, and I firmly believe, that REAL useful tax reform will ONLY occur when people pay their taxes EVERY payday, just like they do every other regular bill like groceries, mortgage, car payment, etc.

When you see what you REALLY earn and how much the government REALLY gets--then you're gonna see some upset people.

[franksolich]

I've heard it said, and I firmly believe, that REAL useful tax reform will ONLY occur when people pay their taxes EVERY payday, just like they do every other regular bill like groceries, mortgage, car payment, etc.

When you see what you REALLY earn and how much the government REALLY gets--then you're gonna see some upset people.

Something similar with that was done in Massachusetts during the 1950s, I believe.

A certain company got tired of allegations by its employees that they were being ripped off; that their wages should be higher.

One payday, a table was set up to disburse the payroll in cash.

Every employee got his whole entire paycheck, no deductions whatsoever; the whole thing.

But there was a second table nearby, where each employee had to stop, where taxes were withdrawn from the stash of cash.

After that, the employees instead of bitching about their "lousy" pay, bitched instead about taxes.

It didn't seem to change their voting habits in Massachusetts unfortunately, though.

[docstew]

I'd like to see manufacturers start to list the cost of the embedded taxes on their packages, but not make actual price changes.

Imagine the shock when suburban mom is reading the cereal box in the morning and sees that box could have been 50 cents cheaper, but corporate taxes run up the price.

[Wineslob]

Wow.  We don't have that here; just the total price, period.

And only a vague idea that the total price includes a substantial chunk for the government.

I think we should have that here, too.

The total price on the pump includes all the taxes, but I think we had some Prop that requires the tax breakdown to be on the pump. I'm paying $3.65/Ga as of yesterday, taxes/fees included.

[CG6468]

I'll try to remember to check, but I recall when there was a sign on each pump in Illinois that stated that the price included X% federal tax and X% state tax.

I don't think the county and city taxes were listed, but they were included in the price/gallon.

[DefiantSix]

One of the biggest fights I remember over taxes being included in the total bill was back during the Klintoon Administration.  They rolled out their AlGore Tax as part of the cell phone bill, a fee that was supposed to pay for installing innerwebz in every school.  First thing the cell providers did was set up a new line item on their billing statements itemizing the charge, and AlGore and Klintoon just about hit the ceiling.

[DumbAss Tanker]

MO has about 300 different tax districts, one Statewide rate but with political subdivisions having many, many different add-on rates for their cut, down to counties and towns.  Rolling in the sales tax would make it impossible for any business with multiple locations to print anything intelligible for promotions.

[terry]

Something similar with that was done in Massachusetts during the 1950s, I believe.

A certain company got tired of allegations by its employees that they were being ripped off; that their wages should be higher.

One payday, a table was set up to disburse the payroll in cash.

Every employee got his whole entire paycheck, no deductions whatsoever; the whole thing.

But there was a second table nearby, where each employee had to stop, where taxes were withdrawn from the stash of cash.

After that, the employees instead of bitching about their "lousy" pay, bitched instead about taxes.

It didn't seem to change their voting habits in Massachusetts unfortunately, though.

I agree with this strategy.  If each person received their gross pay and then had to send off checks to all the taxing entities, like the self-employed do, many more would object.  They would have a greater appreciation for the amount and a greater appreciation for how much of a PITA it is to account for and report.

I just finished two days of work on reports for quarterly payroll and annual corporate tax payments and returns for my little company.

Federal Corporate
PA Corporate
Federal Withholding
Federal Social Security
Federal Medicare
PA Withholding
PA Unemployment comp (which I have to pay into both as an employer and employee, even though I cannot collect)
Local Earned Income

and that's just for my employment, then there's property tax, some to the county, some to the school district and sales tax for the state.

For people who don't have the ability or time to do the accounting and processing there's the cost of paying someone to do it for them.

[thelaughingman]

I rather like the idea of keeping the tax distinct from the cost of the product.

And perhaps manufacturers and retailers also feel the same.

In fact, I think it should be mandatory to quote the retail price, and the taxes on it, as two separate items.

If a package of cigarettes is simply priced at $4, one curses the money-grubbing tobacco companies.

But if it's priced at $2.50, and then an additional $1.50 in taxes, one is made more aware of who the money-grubber is.

Ditto for gasoline, alcohol, and whatever else where the tax isn't cited separately from the retail price of the item.

This is something that needs to be done more, not less.

Dayum, Frank, that was completely brillaint!

[Chris_]

DC will never stop federal witholding... they're addicted to the constant gravy train from us to them.

I'd like to see everyone get a bill in the mail every 90 days like Uncle Sam does for corporations.

[LC EFA]

I've heard it said, and I firmly believe, that REAL useful tax reform will ONLY occur when people pay their taxes EVERY payday, just like they do every other regular bill like groceries, mortgage, car payment, etc.

When you see what you REALLY earn and how much the government REALLY gets--then you're gonna see some upset people.

Well you'd think so but no.

Every time I've been working for someone (as opposed to self employed like now) I've gone with the Pay As You Go scheme. You see your gross weekly pay and the tax withheld  and your net pay. The vast majority of employees choose this route. While they might piss and moan about it that's the end of it.

[DefiantSix]

DC will never stop federal witholding... they're addicted to the constant gravy train from us to them.

I'd like to see everyone get a bill in the mail every 90 days like Uncle Sam does for corporations.

The Boston Tea Party would have NOTHING on the tax revolts that would result.  Sounds great to me.

[Boudicca]

It's been 15 years since I left Europe for the last time, unless I ever return as a tourist, but at that time all the countries we visited had some sort of VAT.  Also, restaurants automatically added the tip to the bill.