Author Topic: WTF, over?!?!  (Read 2391 times)

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Offline DefiantSix

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WTF, over?!?!
« on: July 14, 2011, 04:43:58 PM »

This banner is posted right next to the spot where Jesus fell while carrying the cross.

LINK

Last time I checked, Jesus wasn't a SLAVE to ANYBODY.  He acknowledged that he was "Doing the will of His Father", but he was doing so under his own free will and choice. (Witness the scene in Gethsemane when he MADE THE CHOICE to "shrink not from the bitter cup", as evidence of this.)  He is the KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS, which would kinda preclude him being a SLAVE to anybody or anything.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 04:52:09 PM »
More islamic propaganda.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 04:57:21 PM »
"Allah" means "Lord" in Arabic, so the quote is a selective translation, mixing "Allah" and "Lord" for the same word.  If you stick "Lord" into the quote for all appearances of BOTH words, it makes sense.

The phonetic version of Arabic in yellow is the ever-popular "There is no god but God," which is of course Allah as far as they're concerned.     
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Offline FreeBorn

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 05:38:13 PM »
That reminds me that I need to replace the Quran up at the hunting camp. Drilled a 1/4" hole in the corner so it could be hung on some twine in the outhouse just like the Old Farmer's Almanac. Of course the Almanac is for reading and its pages are that pulpy rough sort of paper, not soft & supple like the Quran.   :-)


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Offline Doc

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 06:17:27 PM »
"Allah" means "Lord" in Arabic, so the quote is a selective translation, mixing "Allah" and "Lord" for the same word.  If you stick "Lord" into the quote for all appearances of BOTH words, it makes sense.

The phonetic version of Arabic in yellow is the ever-popular "There is no god but God," which is of course Allah as far as they're concerned.    

True......and translating the words of Christ from Koine Greek into Arabic (depending on which Gospel was used for the Koran) the word "slave" can be juxtaposed with the word "servant"...........there are no words in Arabic to differentiate the two without the addition of an adjective phrase.

Leaving:  "I am indeed a servant of the lord........."

Not to start a foodfight, but this is generally why I have issues with "literal" interpretations of biblical translations, particularly when they are stated out of context.

doc
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 06:20:07 PM by TVDOC »

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 06:55:17 PM »
I don't remember or find where Jesus called Himself a servant of God, either as doulos - slave (though often translated servant or bondservant, in Greek it literally means slave), or as diakonos - one who executes the commands of another.  I only find verses where Jesus referred to Himself as Son of God, huios.
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Offline Doc

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 07:00:34 PM »
I don't remember or find where Jesus called Himself a servant of God, either as doulos - slave (though often translated servant or bondservant, in Greek it literally means slave), or as diakonos - one who executes the commands of another.  I only find verses where Jesus referred to Himself as Son of God, huios.

I wasn't referring to Greek......

But Arabic.......

كنت بالتأكيد شخص الباطلة، لشخص ما مع تقريبا أي تعليم

doc
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 07:06:18 PM by TVDOC »

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 07:02:20 PM »
I wasn't referring to Greek......

But Arabic.......

doc
OK, in which verse did Christ refer to Himself as a servant of God in Arabic?
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 07:04:16 PM »
Exactly correct on the slave/servant usage, Doc; and Mrs. Smith, you have to bear in mind that the Moslems don't necessarily limit themselves to the church-sanctioned gospel.  Since they regard Jesus as 'just' a prophet, and the Christian church as sadly misguided, they accord no special significance to the historical church's choice of what was Gospel vs. Apocrypha, or even more tangential records, so they have a much broader range of writings to pull from for something like this.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 07:25:01 PM »
No, no, I think that clears it all up rather nicely.

 :-)
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Doc

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 07:30:02 PM »
No, no, I think that clears it all up rather nicely.

 :-)

I deleted my real thoughts on the subject......as unfortunately our board software will not allow Arabic to be written in "right justification" as it is read.

.الله يغفر لي، حتى يتمتع الرجيج لها سلسلة.


I'll quit being an asshole now...... :-)

doc
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 07:42:24 PM by TVDOC »

Offline FreeBorn

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2011, 07:46:18 PM »
FWIW Jesus spoke in Aramaic, not Arabic. That may have some bearing on translations as well.


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Offline TVDOC

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 08:02:11 PM »
FWIW Jesus spoke in Aramaic, not Arabic. That may have some bearing on translations as well.

There is some scholarly evidence that Christ was multilingual, as were many in the Holy Land at the time.

You are correct that Aramaic was the language of the "common man" in the area......however....

Christ was also educated in the temple, where Greek was regularly spoken by the priests (it was also the universal language of Mediterranean commerce).....and the language in which much of the Gospels were originally recorded.

The Holy Land was a Roman colony, and many also spoke Latin......

Who knows?

However, when discussing quotations from the Koran, one must always refer to the language in which it was written.....Arabic.....with its many idiosyncrasies.

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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2011, 05:35:20 AM »
Regardless of the language, we have no reason to believe that Christ ever referred to Himself as a servant of God.  He clearly put His Father's will above His own, but that does not reduce Him to servant or slave status...in any language.  

On the other hand, He quite clearly identified Himself as Son of Man, Son of God, and God.  I don't know when Mohammed met Christ, since he was born 600 years later and obviously not a Christian, so I would have to deny the entire OP verse as inaccurate in any language.
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2011, 05:53:52 AM »
THis is NOT a Bible verse. Its from the Islamic Quran. Note the Quran 3:51.

Big difference. islam claims that Jesus was just a prophet and will return to point to islam as the correct religion . Further this false islamic Jesus will introduce the Mahdi, the muslim messiah who will then slaughter the unbelievers on earth.

What this banner is attempting to do, is use Jesus to evangelize for islam by putting words in his mouth.
 

Offline Eupher

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 07:58:16 AM »
THis is NOT a Bible verse. Its from the Islamic Quran. Note the Quran 3:51.

Big difference. islam claims that Jesus was just a prophet and will return to point to islam as the correct religion . Further this false islamic Jesus will introduce the Mahdi, the muslim messiah who will then slaughter the unbelievers on earth.

What this banner is attempting to do, is use Jesus to evangelize for islam by putting words in his mouth.
 

That was my takeaway from the OP.

But good stuff from Doc and DAT.
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Offline Karin

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Re: WTF, over?!?!
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 10:03:37 AM »
It's a Qurannic verse; Mohammed made up all that shit anyway.