Author Topic: Congressional term limits  (Read 4507 times)

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Offline rich_t

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Congressional term limits
« on: April 22, 2008, 10:24:48 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 10:30:06 PM »
I'm undecided.  I am, for the most part, for term limits.  It keeps out the career politicians and entrenched generation-long majorities.  But I am somewhat against them.  If we institute term limits, the bureaucracy in DC gains more power because they are not limited in how long they can work behind the scenes twisting arms, wheedling, and generally being untruthful to accomplish their own goals.

I think limiting our Senators to two terms (12 years) and our Representatives to six terms (12 years) may be a good start, but that's just my cent-and-a-half.
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Offline djones520

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 10:33:10 PM »
I very very much support the idea of term limits.  What I am undecided about is the actual number of terms.

The only issue with it is, that we'll never get a bill passed that sets it.  Who in there right mind will vote to take themselves out of power?
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 10:36:02 PM »
I very very much support the idea of term limits.  What I am undecided about is the actual number of terms.

The only issue with it is, that we'll never get a bill passed that sets it.  Who in there right mind will vote to take themselves out of power?

In his last term in the Senate, Zell Miller introduced a bill to repeal the 17th Amendment, returning the power to appoint Senators to their state's Legislature.  It did not fair well.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 10:37:20 PM »
Thanks for the response Chris, but part of your answer is unclear to me.


Quote
If we institute term limits, the bureaucracy in DC gains more power because they are not limited in how long they can work behind the scenes twisting arms, wheedling, and generally being untruthful to accomplish their own goals.

How would term limits give the bureaucracy in DC more power?

By my way of thinking it would reduce their power, by limiting the time they have to apply it.

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 10:46:50 PM »
I very very much support the idea of term limits.  What I am undecided about is the actual number of terms.

The only issue with it is, that we'll never get a bill passed that sets it.  Who in there right mind will vote to take themselves out of power?

As far as the actual number of terms... I agree with the term limits that Chris has mentioned.

As for not getting a bill passed...  I fear you are correct.  Those now in power will not willingly limit the amount of time they can wield it.

But on the plus side, Article V of the Constitution does allow for an amendment even when those in Congress don't propose it:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate

No easy task to accomplish by any means, but certainly can be done if enough citizens desire it.  IMO anyway.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 10:48:51 PM by rich_t »
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 10:47:44 PM »
Thanks for the response Chris, but part of your answer is unclear to me.

Quote
If we institute term limits, the bureaucracy in DC gains more power because they are not limited in how long they can work behind the scenes twisting arms, wheedling, and generally being untruthful to accomplish their own goals.

How would term limits give the bureaucracy in DC more power?

By my way of thinking it would reduce their power, by limiting the time they have to apply it.

I'm talking about higher-level government employees.  The best friend a federal employee with an agenda can have is an inexperienced FNG from some Congressional district who's been doing something else besides working the system in DC for the last twenty or thirty years.
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Offline djones520

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 10:50:01 PM »
How many is "several" though?

I will admit I completely forgot about that part of the amendment process.  That does breathe a bit of hope back into me on the subject.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 10:52:35 PM »
Thanks for the response Chris, but part of your answer is unclear to me.

Quote
If we institute term limits, the bureaucracy in DC gains more power because they are not limited in how long they can work behind the scenes twisting arms, wheedling, and generally being untruthful to accomplish their own goals.

How would term limits give the bureaucracy in DC more power?

By my way of thinking it would reduce their power, by limiting the time they have to apply it.

I'm talking about higher-level government employees.  The best friend a federal employee with an agenda can have is an inexperienced FNG from some Congressional district who's been doing something else besides working the system in DC for the last twenty or thirty years.

Ahhh...  I see your point.  I hadn't even thought about that aspect of it.  

But I still like the concept of congressional term limits.  

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 10:52:40 PM »
"several"= 3/4 which is 37.5 or 38 states.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 10:58:43 PM »
How many is "several" though?

I will admit I completely forgot about that part of the amendment process.  That does breathe a bit of hope back into me on the subject.

How many is "several"?  As written, it simply means that article in question ackwowledges that there was more than one state in mind.  At least that is the way view it.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 11:02:44 PM »
"several"= 3/4 which is 37.5 or 38 states.


Correct.

I think it can be done.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 11:09:21 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 11:19:22 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."


So you are against mandated congressional term limits?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 11:24:57 PM by rich_t »
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline djones520

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 11:33:37 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."


Then why have term limits for Presidents?
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 11:37:32 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."


Then why have term limits for Presidents?

Excellent question.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline djones520

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2008, 11:42:20 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."


Then why have term limits for Presidents?

Excellent question.

Elections can be rigged.  Theres no way to get around a limit though.  Sure, you could set a puppet up to take your place afterwards, but theres nothing stopping that right now either.
"Chuck Norris once had sex in an 18 wheeler. Some of his semen dripped onto the engine. We now call that truck Optimus Prime."

Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2008, 11:51:17 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."


Then why have term limits for Presidents?

Excellent question.

Elections can be rigged.  Theres no way to get around a limit though.  Sure, you could set a puppet up to take your place afterwards, but theres nothing stopping that right now either.

Exactly.

We can do better IMO.   But it will take effort.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2008, 11:58:28 PM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."



So you are against mandated congressional term limits?

Yes. I am not as cynical as many here.  I think people can be smart.

But the belief that people are basically stupid is.. oh wait.. that is what liberals think.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2008, 12:18:13 AM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."



So you are against mandated congressional term limits?

Yes. I am not as cynical as many here.  I think people can be smart.

But the belief that people are basically stupid is.. oh wait.. that is what liberals think.


It is not so much about being stupid as being selfish IMO. 

Most folks vote in their own best intererst instead of voting for what is best for the country.

It has been termed as bread and circuses in the past...  I find that the term still applies.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 12:20:26 AM by rich_t »
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2008, 12:20:10 AM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."



So you are against mandated congressional term limits?

Yes. I am not as cynical as many here.  I think people can be smart.

But the belief that people are basically stupid is.. oh wait.. that is what liberals think.


It is not so much about being stupid as being selfish IMO. 

Most folks vote in their own best intererst instead of voting for what what is best for the country.

It has been termed as bread and circuses in the past...  I find that the term still applies.



Everyone votes in their own interests in the final analysis.  The question is whether they see the Country's interest as their own.  Smart people do.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2008, 12:25:59 AM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."



So you are against mandated congressional term limits?

Yes. I am not as cynical as many here.  I think people can be smart.

But the belief that people are basically stupid is.. oh wait.. that is what liberals think.


It is not so much about being stupid as being selfish IMO. 

Most folks vote in their own best intererst instead of voting for what what is best for the country.

It has been termed as bread and circuses in the past...  I find that the term still applies.



Everyone votes in their own interests in the final analysis.  The question is whether they see the Country's interest as their own.  Smart people do.

Smart people as recognised by whom?

Most folks don't give a shit about the good of the country.  They want what they want.  And the good of the country be damned. 
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Chris_

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2008, 12:33:46 AM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."



So you are against mandated congressional term limits?

Yes. I am not as cynical as many here.  I think people can be smart.

But the belief that people are basically stupid is.. oh wait.. that is what liberals think.


It is not so much about being stupid as being selfish IMO. 

Most folks vote in their own best intererst instead of voting for what what is best for the country.

It has been termed as bread and circuses in the past...  I find that the term still applies.



Everyone votes in their own interests in the final analysis.  The question is whether they see the Country's interest as their own.  Smart people do.

Smart people as recognised by whom?

Most folks don't give a shit about the good of the country.  They want what they want.  And the good of the country be damned. 

These people are called "liberals."
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline rich_t

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2008, 12:37:34 AM »
I have been pondering this question for a while, and I am leaning toward "For" term limits, but I'm not 100% locked in about it yet.

I'm interested in knowing the opinions of others here on this topic.



We have term limits.  They are called "elections."



So you are against mandated congressional term limits?

Yes. I am not as cynical as many here.  I think people can be smart.

But the belief that people are basically stupid is.. oh wait.. that is what liberals think.


It is not so much about being stupid as being selfish IMO. 

Most folks vote in their own best intererst instead of voting for what what is best for the country.

It has been termed as bread and circuses in the past...  I find that the term still applies.



Everyone votes in their own interests in the final analysis.  The question is whether they see the Country's interest as their own.  Smart people do.

Smart people as recognised by whom?

Most folks don't give a shit about the good of the country.  They want what they want.  And the good of the country be damned. 

These people are called "liberals."

I am starting to wonder if you are one of them.

But even if you are, I thank you for taking part in the poll.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Congressional term limits
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2008, 06:05:22 AM »
The problem with passing term limits is that it completely changes the dynamic of how Congress functions in ways that are not to any of the incumbents' clear advantage, and to the obvious disadvantage of most of them.  Suppose you are one of the Senators or Reps from an out-of-the-way, not-particularly-important State or district.  In a term-limited Congress, you will never acquire a prominent position as a committee head and have relatively little chance of even being seated on one of the major committees (Justice, Defense, Banking, etc.).   In the current system, your longevity will eventually be rewarded in a seniority system.  Where is the incentive to dump your current standing in a known system and screw yourself (and also the people you represent, for whom you will NEVER be in a position to bring home the bacon and possibly improve their relative importance in the national scheme)?

After watching Byrd, Spector, and company dither around, though, an age limit wouldn't trouble me though.
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