Help! Help! TX is going to execute an illegal murdering SOB alien-

[Tucker]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1425829

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:04 PM
Original message
Gov Perry is about to execute a mexican citizen without giving him access to
   
Mexican authorities.

Now here is a hint, as a Red Cross worker I can't tell you how many times I filled that particular form, or how many times I called the US consulate, or the Israelis, or the Polish.

I can't tell you how many times i helped a cop fill the paperwork either. Yes it is a very specific piece of paper that is part of a treaty, the Geneva Convention. If Perry goes ahead with that and you end up in a foreign jail for drunk in public, some cops, or EMS will no longer fill that pesky form or call the US authorities. Don't get me started on how not very efficient the Consulate was... But they did show up...not always, actually rarely, in a timely manner, but they did. And I know I worked the weekend so it might have been that.

So yes Governor Perry wins fhe idiot award of the year if he goes ahead and signs that death warrant.

Red Cross worker eh! Is there anything Nadine hasn't done?

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. You mean a "foreign" country in which we had live illegally since we were two, right?
   
Just so we can lay out the hypothetical quite clearly.

I oppose the death penalty in ALL CASES; however, I don't believe illegal aliens should have any special rights to avoid same.

WOW! A DUmmy using the term "Illegal alien". Dirty stinking Mole alert.

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The Geneva Convention, which we did sign, does not care
   
Edited on Wed Jul-06-11 02:21 PM by nadinbrzezinski
About your legal residency status, so we are clear. That pesky form had a copy for my form, staid with patient in file...another to the Foreign Office, and a third to the coutry in question. In the United States cops mostly fill the same pesky form, REGARDLESS OF LEGAL STATUS. It is part of the Fourth Protocol of the Convention. The problem is NOT that he was here illegally, but that the Mexican Government was not advised of the arrest to assist or not. It is a legal wicket, like Miranda.

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The state of Texas is not a signatory to the controlling protocol
   
I am almost positive the SCOTUS resolved this issue in Texas' favor when it came up under W's tenure.

"In the United States cops mostly fill the same pesky form, REGARDLESS OF LEGAL STATUS"

In MANY jurisdictions, cops aren't allowed to inquire about legal status. So I doubt it!

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I guess Texas is now an independent country
   
And yes they do...the moment Joe shmo says I am a citizen of blah... They are supposed to. I know my LOCAL PD does not ask, yet they are trained in the academy on this protocol and how to fill that form. I will let you try to connect those dots yourself.

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The US is a Federalist union in which criminal law is largely left to the states
   
It's been that way since our inception.

"And yes they do...the moment Joe shmo says I am a citizen of blah... They are supposed to"

My understanding is that the convicted killer never identified himself as a Mexican national until after conviction. Without his cooperation, it may be virtually impossible to identify him as a foreign national.

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Federal treates have the force of law
   
I will suggest you read the supremacy clause, regarding international treaties...incidentally this is not about criminal law either.

Have a good day... :banghead:

And since I doubt you travel abroad you will never have to worry about conquences

In other words, you made me look like the idiot I am so I'm taking my ball and going home.

The dirty stinking mole won't give up.

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. The Supremacy Clause only applies to areas in which the Federal Gov't has Constitutional mandate
   
"incidentally this is not about criminal law either."

It's about the case of a convicted murderer/rapist. I hate argument that characterize words like "about", so let's just agree that it "involves" criminal law.

"Have a good day... "

I'm sorry the issue of the Federalist nature of our government confuses/frustrates you. It's not an easy topic.

"And since I doubt you travel abroad you will never have to worry about conquences"

What's the basis of your doubt? The fact that I have a grasp of the structure of the Federal government? :silly:

Your precedent is Medellín v. Texas. 552 U.S. 491 (2008), btw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medell%C3%ADn_v._Texas

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Texas is now independent
   
And international treaties have zero application in the Republic, gotcha...

Consequences... Bye bye.

Huh?

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I *knew* you wouldn't bother to read the link.
   
You're not interested in the legalities of this matter, imo. Just moralizing + namecalling.

That's the DUmmy MO.

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I know the case
   
Still, consequences... When that case came down there was also a brouhaha, for the reasons stated...American Exceptionalism at it's best...and we cannot demand others follow this when we don't.

Ah the hours I'd save not killing those trees.

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Then make it clear you are making an argument *outside* of existing law--
   
especially when berating others.

Believe it or not, knowing Constitutional law does not make on a proponent of any given ruling. But there is law on point, and it is crystal clear.

I guess that means I never travel abroad?

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I made my argument based on treaty law
   
Have a good life

Brush off number 3.

Romulox (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Jul-06-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. The US Constution, and the SCOTUS' interpretation thereof, is the controlling law
   
Not "treaty law".

"Have a good life"

Learn not to attack people discussing a matter with you respectfully. Especially where the facts aren't on your side!

Nadine blinked. She lost.

[thundley4]

nadin = sumdumbitch:

I can't tell you how many times i helped a cop fill the paperwork either. Yes it is a very specific piece of paper that is part of a treaty, the Geneva Convention. If Perry goes ahead with that and you end up in a foreign jail for drunk in public, some cops, or EMS will no longer fill that pesky form or call the US authorities

The state's failure to inform Leal that he could receive assistance from the Mexican consulate, as required under the Vienna Convention, meant that the criminal proceedings against him "did not meet the minimum standards of due process and a fair trial," the IACHR said in a statement.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iN7PYIfL3rJegjmjjgMTHaJo6Ibg?docId=CNG.1944a16bd1a606916947fdc5b2762bf9.551

sumdumbitch thinks the Geneva Convention is the answer to everything.

[franksolich]

Is there anything Nadine hasn't done?

She hasn't yet hopped around in the sack with franksolich.

[GOBUCKS]

Nadine blinked. She lost.

Welcome to the iggy list. The pesky iggy list.

[LC EFA]

Funny how they're prepared to ignore the Geneva convention when it comes to the correct treatment of persons found under arms , out of uniform , and behind enemy lines in favour of US law - or three hots , a cot and a judge 'n' Jury when it suits their purposes to do so. No matter the correct jurisdiction of the appropriate set of laws.

[Traveshamockery]

She hasn't yet hopped around in the sack with franksolich.

Hopped?  I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.

 

[Vagabond]

Funny how they're prepared to ignore the Geneva convention when it comes to the correct treatment of persons found under arms , out of uniform , and behind enemy lines in favour of US law - or three hots , a cot and a judge 'n' Jury when it suits their purposes to do so. No matter the correct jurisdiction of the appropriate set of laws.

I had a liberal coworker that thought the Geneva conventions meant that the people we caught fighting for the Taliban and Al Qaeda had the right to a trial.  He was red in the face when I told him I thought we should follow the Geneva conventions and give them a rapid court martial and then execute them.

[whiteguyPI]

First of all Numbnuts-Bezerkizinski, Gov. Perry isn't about to execute anyone.  That honor belongs to the people of the Great State of Texas (although I can verify that "Gov. Good Hair" is a proud memeber of that group).

Secondly, you paint chip eating retard...Gov. Perry doesn't sign the death warrant. That honor goes to to the trial judge of the court where the POS was tried and convicted.  Few years ago, we even had a judge sign the death warrant and add a smiley face at the end.  Loser's attorney went apoplectic and tried to have the death sentence thrown out.  Turns out the judge always adds a smiley face at the end of his signature...has done it for years. Appeals court shrugged and the convict got the old "steel dick" in his arm.

So in conclusion, STFU Numbnuts...you sound like an idiot and everyone knows it but you.

[jukin]

If you see a picture of this raping murderer the Great State of Texas will actually be putting 31/2 illegal raping murdering Mexicans to death.

[dandi]

I remember a couple of my COs telling us that if we effed up in foreign port while on liberty and got busted by the local constabulary, we were basically screwed. The U.S. Consulate might check in on American citizens us to see if we were being treated humanely, but beyond that there was nothing they could do for us.

They weren't wrong either, as we left more than one shipmate behind in overseas jails.

[BEG]

Why don't you leave my country already Nadine?

[Skul]

We have an express lane.
Too bad we don't have a "self check-out".

[diesel driver]

We have an express lane.
Too bad we don't have a "self check-out".

Used to.

But Kevorkian died last month.

[Skul]

Used to.

But Kevorkian died last month.

In some regards, I wish it could be applied to prisons.
Only the really needy need apply.
I know it sounds calous/heartless.
Perhaps the DUmmies would consider it post-partum abortion.
That's the ticket, DUmmies.

I have no sympathy for murders. None.
Consulate, my sorry red ass.
He raped and murdered a young girl.

[BlueStateSaint]

She hasn't yet hopped around in the sack with franksolich.

Do you really want that to happen, Coach?

[franksolich]

Do you really want that to happen, Coach?

No, but if it helps the cause, I'd make the sacrifice.

Right now, I'm working up a new Mrs. Alfred Packer story, but I'm thinking of in the bedroom scene, replacing Mrs. Alfred Packer with nadinostradamus.

<<always willing to take a hit for the team.

[Karin]

 

That's a whole lotta mixed emotions right there.   

I think it's pretty funny about the judge's smiley face on the signature.  But then again, I'm a heartless bitch.  Fry this raping, murdering scum. 

[NHSparky]

I remember a couple of my COs telling us that if we effed up in foreign port while on liberty and got busted by the local constabulary, we were basically screwed. The U.S. Consulate might check in on American citizens us to see if we were being treated humanely, but beyond that there was nothing they could do for us.

They weren't wrong either, as we left more than one shipmate behind in overseas jails.

Bingo, and sometimes the local consulate wouldn't even do that.

Tell ya what, DUmmies--commit rape and murder in Mexico, get caught, then demand to talk to the American Consulate and see how long it takes before the laughter dies down.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Hopped?  I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.

 

 

[franksolich]

Hopped?  I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.

 

Well now, madam, everybody has their own technique.

[Airwolf]

Nadinenobrains needs to actually get a law degree before she starts spouting off about the Geneva Conventions or at least join the military where we get classes once a month on it.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Nadinenobrains needs to actually get a law degree before she starts spouting off about the Geneva Conventions or at least join the military where we get classes once a month on it.

There is a provision in the GC that has a rough and distant similarity to the Vienna Protocol provision at issue in this case, but it really has absolutely nothing to do with the dirtbag in Texas in any relevant legal or analytical way, and the case law on the GC provision is by far the less-developed of the two.

[ReaganForRushmore]

(1.) The US Senate hasn't approved the Vienna Conventions, now 41 years old.,
(2.) Leal had been in Texas from age two and was 21 when he committed the heinous crime in which dental records and a mold of his specific bite radius matched 100%. DNA and the victims blood where found on his bathroom where he had thrown his bloody shirt. The same mixture on concrete was found on his pants and his shirt that matched the piece of concrete he used the beat the girl to death with. The stick that was impaled into the young girl's privates had his fingerprints and semen on it. The autopsy
also had his DNA and semen on the young girl.
(3.) Before his capitial murder trial, the Government of Mexico, when offered the return of the "Mexican
       National", the Government said that the gentleman in question was considered a US citizen, subject
to the laws of Texas.

Obama played election year politics with this issue to pander for Mexican votes. I wonder if he called the victims family and told them what he was doing for a filthy piece of scum that lived longer on death row than the age of his victim.

[Skul]

Too late, DUmmies.
The murders soul has left its building.
Now shaking hands with lucifer.

[sybilll]

Too late, DUmmies.
The murders soul has left its building.
Now shaking hands with lucifer.

There was a buzz on twitter that some of his last words were "Viva Mexico".  To which I say