Author Topic: Obama fails again, big time  (Read 9414 times)

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Offline Hawk

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Obama fails again, big time
« on: June 29, 2011, 11:52:15 AM »
Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern:
http://therealnews.com/t2/component/content/article/57-ray-mcgovern/679-gaza-cradle-of-killing-americans-too
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I also have been cautioned by a source with access to very senior staffers at the National Security Council that not only does the White House plan to do absolutely nothing to protect our boat from Israeli attack or illegal boarding, but that White House officials "would be happy if something happened to us." They are, I am reliably told, "perfectly willing to have the cold corpses of activists shown on American TV."

Former UK Ambassador Craig Murray:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/06/obama-wants-more-dead-rachel-corries-to-boost-aipac-standing/
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...I set my own diplomatic sources to work in Washington, without giving them any indication of Ray’s information. They came back with an independent report from a different source – close to Clinton rather than the White House – with exactly the same result of which Ray was warned. I was told that Obama will welcome an Israeli attack on the US ship, as giving him a chance to confirm his pro-Israeli credentials and improve his standing with AIPAC ahead of the Presidential election race. Fatalities would be "not a problem".

There was no information that the Obama regime has quietly given Netanyahu a green light to attack the ship. But I strongly expect they will; by deniable means, of course.

Salon writer Glenn Greenwald:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/06/27/israel?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+salon%2Fgreenwald+%28Glenn+Greenwald%29
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But over the weekend, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also gave her views on the flotilla, and while her rhetoric was somewhat more restrained than that quoted above, she also seemed to endorse possible violence by this foreign nation against her own country's peacefully protesting citizens:

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Well, we do not believe that the flotilla is a necessary or useful effort to try to assist the people of Gaza. Just this week, the Israeli Government approved a significant commitment to housing in Gaza. There will be construction materials entering Gaza and we think that it's not helpful for there to be flotillas that try to provoke actions by entering into Israeli waters and creating a situation in which the Israelis have the right to defend themselves.

Though Clinton's language was draped with the subtleties of diplomatese, there is little doubt that she, too, is justifying a potential attack by a foreign government on unarmed American protesters (ironically, Clinton's remarks came at the same Press Conference where she impugned the patriotism of others -- namely, critics of the Libya War -- by branding them as "on Gadaffi's side").


Administration throwing Americans under the bus, again.


ETA;links
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 11:58:55 AM by Hawk »

Offline Tess Anderson

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 11:58:40 AM »
More far-left ranting:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x356826

might as well go over there where YOU belong.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 02:02:24 PM »
I couldn't give a rat's ass one way or the other if they do get sunk and become sharkbait, however I fail to see how that does anything positive for Obama, particularly on the 'pro-Iraeli credentials' bit of fantasy.  All it could possibly do is make him look even more spastic and ineffective than he already does.  I suppose Hillary might like that on a personal level, but it's a bit late in the game for her to hop in as a 2012 challenger at this point.
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 02:12:21 PM »
I couldn't give a rat's ass one way or the other if they do get sunk and become sharkbait, however I fail to see how that does anything positive for Obama, particularly on the 'pro-Iraeli credentials' bit of fantasy.  All it could possibly do is make him look even more spastic and ineffective than he already does.  I suppose Hillary might like that on a personal level, but it's a bit late in the game for her to hop in as a 2012 challenger at this point.

I think anytime the government condones something like this for any reason, that it is a serious problem. Yes, they should know better. Personally I don't care if Israel and Palestine wipe each other off the face of the world, but to deliberately turn the back to American citizens like this, to me, is inexcusable.

Offline DefiantSix

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2011, 02:27:52 PM »
My God, I'm in agreement with the idiots in the Obama Administration.  Somebody check the thermostat in Hell.  I, too, "plan to do absolutely nothing to protect [y]our boat from Israeli attack or illegal boarding, [and I] "would be happy if something happened to [you]." [I am also], "perfectly willing to have the cold corpses of activists worthless leftist scumbags shown on American TV."

Wow; broken clock principle? :confused:
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 03:32:42 PM »
I think anytime the government condones something like this for any reason, that it is a serious problem. Yes, they should know better. Personally I don't care if Israel and Palestine wipe each other off the face of the world, but to deliberately turn the back to American citizens like this, to me, is inexcusable.

Ask Rachel Corrie how it worked out for her......

Anyone, American or not, attempting to run an Israeli blockade that was established to prevent weapons delivery to Gaza is interfering in the affairs of another sovereign nation.......Gaza is not a "nation" but a collection of terrorists......Gaza has no right to marine sovereignty......the waters off Gaza are Israeli territory under maritime law.  They are perfectly justified in taking any action deemed necessary to prevent any incursion into their waters.

There is a procedure in place for interested parties to provide aid to Gaza through the UN.....with Israel's blessing  (the Israeli Army will even truck it in from the port of Haifa at no charge, once it has been thoroughly inspected), but that appears not to be the motive here.........one wonders what that motive is.......

In principle, it's no different from our policy on preventing some crazy raghead from smuggling a WMD into the US......based on your above comments I assume you'd be OK with that?!?

doc
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 03:46:20 PM »
Ask Rachel Corrie how it worked out for her......

Anyone, American or not, attempting to run an Israeli blockade that was established to prevent weapons delivery to Gaza is interfering in the affairs of another sovereign nation.......Gaza is not a "nation" but a collection of terrorists......Gaza has no right to marine sovereignty......the waters off Gaza are Israeli territory under maritime law.  They are perfectly justified in taking any action deemed necessary to prevent any incursion into their waters.

There is a procedure in place for interested parties to provide aid to Gaza through the UN.....with Israel's blessing  (the Israeli Army will even truck it in from the port of Haifa at no charge, once it has been thoroughly inspected), but that appears not to be the motive here.........one wonders what that motive is.......

In principle, it's no different from our policy on preventing some crazy raghead from smuggling a WMD into the US......based on your above comments I assume you'd be OK with that?!?

doc

Don't you honestly think that Israel is fully capable of turning back a flotilla of misguided hippies without resorting to blowing them out of the water or machine gunning the decks? Aside from that, it's the administrations attitude about wanting them harmed that offends me.

What have we come to as a nation when we condone such things? Is it acceptable to waive our humanity for some imagined political gain?

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 04:01:41 PM »
I think anytime the government condones something like this for any reason, that it is a serious problem. Yes, they should know better. Personally I don't care if Israel and Palestine wipe each other off the face of the world, but to deliberately turn the back to American citizens like this, to me, is inexcusable.

I also couldn't give a rat's ass about American citizens who knowingly put themselves in dangerous situations overseas in pursuit of their own stupid political agendas.  It's a tough world, and you play that shit in the part of it that's 'Not America' entirely at your own risk, and the US does not owe you one damned thing toward getting you out of your own self-inflicted jam. 

Our people overseas who are minding their own business, going about clearly-lawful affairs, not meddling in foreign political issues, and who are then victimized by pirates, terrorists, kidnappers, or other miscellaneous rat-bastards are another story entirely.  THOSE are the ones we DO need to rescue, as well as deliver appropriate smitings all around to the guilty parties.
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Offline dandi

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 04:17:57 PM »
Do you guys remember the part of the movie "Liar, liar" where Jim Carey's character tells Tex Cobb's character to "Stop breaking the law, asshole"?  I think that this situation is a lot like that.

If you don't want to end up fish food, don't run the friggin' blockade.  Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Don't you honestly think that Israel is fully capable of turning back a flotilla of misguided hippies without resorting to blowing them out of the water or machine gunning the decks? 

I think a better question would be why would Israel want to put their men and equipment in close contact with terrorists/terrorist supporters when they could eliminate the problem from a distance?  Make no mistake, non state supported individuals running a blockade is a terrorist act and I would expect the Israeli government to take full measure against what would be the definition of terrorist activity by enemy combatants. 

These fools have been warned, repeatedly, and they still want to try and run a blockade.  If I were a commander on the ground, I would have to deduce that these goons are either aiding terrorists who are killing my countrymen or they are the stupidest idiots on the face of the Earth.  Either way, they won't make it past the blockade.

Besides, I think you may have prematurely gotten your panties in a bit a knot over anyone being blown up or machine gunned on the decks.  Until it happens, don't run around in a circle like a little bitch, okay?

Quote
What have we come to as a nation when we condone such things? Is it acceptable to waive our humanity for some imagined political gain?

Get back to me when the left stops walking on the dead members of the military to score their points.
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Offline dandi

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 04:19:35 PM »
Mods, is it me or does this particular thread seem more suited for Mind Numbing Stupidity?
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2011, 04:37:49 PM »
Do you guys remember the part of the movie "Liar, liar" where Jim Carey's character tells Tex Cobb's character to "Stop breaking the law, asshole"?  I think that this situation is a lot like that.

If you don't want to end up fish food, don't run the friggin' blockade.  Seems pretty clear cut to me.

I think a better question would be why would Israel want to put their men and equipment in close contact with terrorists/terrorist supporters when they could eliminate the problem from a distance?  Make no mistake, non state supported individuals running a blockade is a terrorist act and I would expect the Israeli government to take full measure against what would be the definition of terrorist activity by enemy combatants. 

These fools have been warned, repeatedly, and they still want to try and run a blockade.  If I were a commander on the ground, I would have to deduce that these goons are either aiding terrorists who are killing my countrymen or they are the stupidest idiots on the face of the Earth.  Either way, they won't make it past the blockade.

Besides, I think you may have prematurely gotten your panties in a bit a knot over anyone being blown up or machine gunned on the decks.  Until it happens, don't run around in a circle like a little bitch, okay?

Get back to me when the left stops walking on the dead members of the military to score their points.

Our Coast Guard seems capable of stopping ships and boats on the high seas daily without blowing them out of the water to do it.

Once again, it is the administration condoning the possible acts of violence against them that I find offensive, not any act that hasn't happened yet.

My wife works at the Wounded Warrior Hospital at Ft. Riley. If you are accusing me of stepping on the corpses of our dead soldiers then I expect an apology. I see regularly what those kids have and are going through and I am furious that they were put in harms way to begin with.

Since I am new here, I will explain yet again that I am not a lib, or left, or any other political persuasion. I think they all reek of corruption, greed and stupidity. I refuse to stand on one side of an imaginary line and screech sound bites and gibberish at whatever the other side may be.

Offline Splashdown

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2011, 04:51:16 PM »
Wow. Actually supporting left-wing wackjobs breaking international laws and Israel's national sovereignty.
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2011, 05:03:46 PM »
Wow. Actually supporting left-wing wackjobs breaking international laws and Israel's national sovereignty.

Wow. Reading comprehension fail.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2011, 05:45:09 PM »
Our Coast Guard seems capable of stopping ships and boats on the high seas daily without blowing them out of the water to do it.


Lawful ships with lawful loads crewed by sane people vs unlawful ships with unlawful loads crewed by terrorist.
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2011, 05:56:59 PM »
Lawful ships with lawful loads crewed by sane people vs unlawful ships with unlawful loads crewed by terrorist.

Well, drug runners and smugglers are as a norm fairly well armed and hostile crews. The Coast Guard isn't a walk in the park.

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2011, 05:57:04 PM »
Don't you honestly think that Israel is fully capable of turning back a flotilla of misguided hippies without resorting to blowing them out of the water or machine gunning the decks? Aside from that, it's the administrations attitude about wanting them harmed that offends me.

What have we come to as a nation when we condone such things? Is it acceptable to waive our humanity for some imagined political gain?
They aren't misguided hippies, they are violent revolutionary Marxists, in other words, regular hippies.
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2011, 05:58:51 PM »
They aren't misguided hippies, they are violent revolutionary Marxists, in other words, regular hippies.

I wasn't aware there was a difference.  :wink:


It's funny, not in a haha way, but when I was a kid, I was a hippie and I was always too damn stoned to do anything, much less be violent. Then it was drugs, sex and rock-n-roll. Then I turned 17.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:08:56 PM by Hawk »

Offline FreeBorn

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2011, 06:32:01 PM »
So Hawk, welcome to the Cave. Perhaps you could offer some clarity here for me? I'm a little fuzzy on where you're going with all of this.

As I see it this merry band of seagoing hippies has taken it upon themselves to chart a course in harm's way under the disclaimer of flying the "unarmed American protesters" banner. What they fail to accept, IMHO is that just because they see themselves as having no shortage of self perceived merit and righteousness in their cause that doesn't mean the U.S. Government has to even so much as offer an opinion on that one way or the other. It doesn't matter how important they think they are and nobody else is obligated to support them.

Do you feel the Obama Administration is obligated to support them?

I mean who the hell are they, anyway? Just because I fly the Stars and Stripes from my bowsprit (you know, the cute little one with the ring of stars in the blue field and the anchor in the middle?) when I'm out on the river in my little boat fishing doesn't mean I am in command of "an American vessel". My fishing license is not a letter of marque. If I stray too far from the east bank of the river and find myself in Canadian waters I understand I am on my own and do not expect and demand the official support of the U.S. Government in my adventures. Who the hell am I, anyway? Just another Joe Schmoe that went for a float in a boat, that's who. Just a private individual all by my lonesome.

Once this seagoing band of hippies gets out past the 12 mile international limit from our shores they are on their own. If in the event that their ship's registry is revoked at that point (if it hasn't been already) in light of their stated intentions of taking it upon themselves to create an international incident then so be it. The U.S. Government would be absolutely right in doing so. If I hopped into my little boat and crossed the Niagara river, beaching on the Canadian side and sprung out onto their shores, planted the Stars and Stripes, blew a bugle, waved a .45 in the air extolling my fellow Americans to "follow me"! should I expect the Obama Administration to support me? Should I feel outraged and betrayed if he does not?

Do you think the Obama Administration should support me in that?

Are you upset that these "unarmed American protesters" are not receiving Obama's unwavering support in their cause?

Seems like a pretty clear cut example of "suicide by cop" to me.

So, Hawk, did you bring this rant over here to the Cave in order to vent because doing so at the DUmp would get you tombstoned?


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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2011, 06:43:39 PM »
So Hawk, welcome to the Cave. Perhaps you could offer some clarity here for me? I'm a little fuzzy on where you're going with all of this.

As I see it this merry band of seagoing hippies has taken it upon themselves to chart a course in harm's way under the disclaimer of flying the "unarmed American protesters" banner. What they fail to accept, IMHO is that just because they see themselves as having no shortage of self perceived merit and righteousness in their cause that doesn't mean the U.S. Government has to even so much as offer an opinion on that one way or the other. It doesn't matter how important they think they are and nobody else is obligated to support them.

Do you feel the Obama Administration is obligated to support them?

I mean who the hell are they, anyway? Just because I fly the Stars and Stripes from my bowsprit (you know, the cute little one with the ring of stars in the blue field and the anchor in the middle?) when I'm out on the river in my little boat fishing doesn't mean I am in command of "an American vessel". My fishing license is not a letter of marque. If I stray too far from the east bank of the river and find myself in Canadian waters I understand I am on my own and do not expect and demand the official support of the U.S. Government in my adventures. Who the hell am I, anyway? Just another Joe Schmoe that went for a float in a boat, that's who. Just a private individual all by my lonesome.

Once this seagoing band of hippies gets out past the 12 mile international limit from our shores they are on their own. If in the event that their ship's registry is revoked at that point (if it hasn't been already) in light of their stated intentions of taking it upon themselves to create an international incident then so be it. The U.S. Government would be absolutely right in doing so. If I hopped into my little boat and crossed the Niagara river, beaching on the Canadian side and sprung out onto their shores, planted the Stars and Stripes, blew a bugle, waved a .45 in the air extolling my fellow Americans to "follow me"! should I expect the Obama Administration to support me? Should I feel outraged and betrayed if he does not?

Do you think the Obama Administration should support me in that?

Are you upset that these "unarmed American protesters" are not receiving Obama's unwavering support in their cause?

Seems like a pretty clear cut example of "suicide by cop" to me.

So, Hawk, did you bring this rant over here to the Cave in order to vent because doing so at the DUmp would get you tombstoned?

Do I expect support? Well, no, never said that. Once again, what I do object to is the blatant condoning harm to them. I honestly can't see why this is so hard to understand. I have never posted at the DUmp. Don't even know for sure what it is.

Why is that none can accept that I am not left or right?

Offline Ballygrl

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2011, 07:02:01 PM »
I have no problem with a bunch of radical left-wing activists getting bopped on the head by Israel. The term useful idiots apply here and that's what they are.
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Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2011, 07:11:07 PM »
Do I expect support? Well, no, never said that. Once again, what I do object to is the blatant condoning harm to them. I honestly can't see why this is so hard to understand. I have never posted at the DUmp. Don't even know for sure what it is.

Why is that none can accept that I am not left or right?
Anything not strongly rooted in conservative philosophy will drift ever increasingly toward liberalism, mental illness and misery.

Now, while I do not agree with it, in the common parlance, "right" generally is shorthand for "conservative" and "left" is everything else.

I don't consider myself "left" or "right" either, but an American with conservative guiding principles. I believe "left" and "right" are terms of the left and both are included on the left, or insane, end of the spectrum. And when we fall into the trap of letting the left define us, it isn't really helpful and confuses debate.  When attempting to use words made up and defined by the insane that seem to change on a whim, nothing gets accomplished.

But clearly, when people talk to me, they know I am a conservative. They know what that means. When someone says,"I'm not either left or right" and then refuses to elaborate, that puts people ill-at-ease and there is good reason for that. Many times such people are either condescending a-holes who believe they are superior to everyone and are only engaged in toying with people they feel are inferior and many other times they are simply liberal trolls waiting for some big moment to reveal themselves, or to go off to a liberal website and brag about how they have a bunch of ignorant right-winger, one-eyed, trog-molared inbreds fooled.

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Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2011, 07:24:20 PM »
Anything not strongly rooted in conservative philosophy will drift ever increasingly toward liberalism, mental illness and misery.

Now, while I do not agree with it, in the common parlance, "right" generally is shorthand for "conservative" and "left" is everything else.

I don't consider myself "left" or "right" either, but an American with conservative guiding principles. I believe "left" and "right" are terms of the left and both are included on the left, or insane, end of the spectrum. And when we fall into the trap of letting the left define us, it isn't really helpful and confuses debate.  When attempting to use words made up and defined by the insane that seem to change on a whim, nothing gets accomplished.

But clearly, when people talk to me, they know I am a conservative. They know what that means. When someone says,"I'm not either left or right" and then refuses to elaborate, that puts people ill-at-ease and there is good reason for that. Many times such people are either condescending a-holes who believe they are superior to everyone and are only engaged in toying with people they feel are inferior and many other times they are simply liberal trolls waiting for some big moment to reveal themselves, or to go off to a liberal website and brag about how they have a bunch of ignorant right-winger, one-eyed, trog-molared inbreds fooled.

Most people are not Zen monks.

Good grief. I am centrist. I think if you can get far enough away from the shrieking both sides are making then you can think a little clearer. I do not feel either superior nor inferior. I have strong feelings about a great many things.

For instance, over the past few decades Congress, legal precedent and the President have been chipping away at the Constitution, until at last it is in a very real threat of simply being ignored, or worse.

I have watched Americans waive basic rights in favor of the illusion of safety over the past 10 years, and do so willingly.

Many of our inner cities are now like third world countries and domestic spending being slashed in favor of two wars.

Our infrastructure is rotten, and not much, if anything is being done about it.

New Orleans, one of our greatest cities is still toiling its way out of the disaster that was Katrina.

This country went from really being number one to not so much anymore.

We are in a very serious economic crisis brought about by greed and wink-wink deals by investors and bankers who in return were bailed out. Manufacturing is leaving like rats off of a sinking ship. People with business degrees, etc are now flipping burgers while bank execs are getting ridiculous bonuses.

I bought an American flag, when i got home it said Made in China.

American soldiers are getting maimed and killed.

Yeah, I am fence sitting, not really.

Offline FreeBorn

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2011, 07:27:00 PM »
Anything not strongly rooted in conservative philosophy will drift ever increasingly toward liberalism, mental illness and misery.

Now, while I do not agree with it, in the common parlance, "right" generally is shorthand for "conservative" and "left" is everything else.

I don't consider myself "left" or "right" either, but an American with conservative guiding principles. I believe "left" and "right" are terms of the left and both are included on the left, or insane, end of the spectrum. And when we fall into the trap of letting the left define us, it isn't really helpful and confuses debate.  When attempting to use words made up and defined by the insane that seem to change on a whim, nothing gets accomplished.

But clearly, when people talk to me, they know I am a conservative. They know what that means. When someone says,"I'm not either left or right" and then refuses to elaborate, that puts people ill-at-ease and there is good reason for that. Many times such people are either condescending a-holes who believe they are superior to everyone and are only engaged in toying with people they feel are inferior and many other times they are simply liberal trolls waiting for some big moment to reveal themselves, or to go off to a liberal website and brag about how they have a bunch of ignorant right-winger, one-eyed, trog-molared inbreds fooled.

Most people are not Zen monks.
Yup.^

Hawk I sincerely doubt your cited allegations were ever uttered. Hearsay is hearsay. Without convincing sources it never happened. Anti war activists and liberal bloggers of the ilk you cited (McGovern, Murray, Greenwald) are not convincing sources. Each of them are not to be considered credible by reasonable persons. In their opinions and "journalism" they have an axe to grind, an agenda.

Feel free to reiterate with some solid sources to advance this from the realm of hearsay or there it shall remain.


"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin; And how do you tell an anti-communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." ~Ronald Reagan

Offline Ballygrl

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2011, 07:32:49 PM »
Good grief. I am centrist. I think if you can get far enough away from the shrieking both sides are making then you can think a little clearer. I do not feel either superior nor inferior. I have strong feelings about a great many things.

No offense intended, but in some ways I find centrists aka moderates worse than the extremes on either side, they tend to be fickle, straddle the fence way too much, and arrogantly enjoy both sides fighting over them to get their votes. There are times you need to get off the fence and pick a side and stick with it.
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"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline Hawk

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Re: Obama fails again, big time
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2011, 07:41:53 PM »
No offense intended, but in some ways I find centrists aka moderates worse than the extremes on either side, they tend to be fickle, straddle the fence way too much, and arrogantly enjoy both sides fighting over them to get their votes. There are times you need to get off the fence and pick a side and stick with it.

Nice job ignoring the rest of my post, thanks.