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Offline Crazy Horse

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Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« on: April 21, 2008, 02:21:36 PM »
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Better Believe It (258 posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:35 PM
Original message
Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 02:36 PM by Better Believe It
What does it mean to call McCain a 'war hero' candidate?
McCain is running as one, but those who oppose dishonorable wars are also heroes.
By Charles Derber and Yale Magrass
April 14, 2008 edition
Christian Science Monitor

When we call McCain a war hero, we engage in moral discourse about the Vietnam War and now Iraq. We also give McCain – currently the country's most celebrated war hero – the ultimate political weapon: power by virtue of heroism and the ability to discredit opponents as weak or unpatriotic.

McCain's heroism stems entirely from Vietnam. McCain was brave in captivity, but he and his fellow pilots dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all those dropped in World War II, leading to the conclusion that "we had to destroy Vietnam in order to save it." But he did not acknowledge the war itself as immoral. Had he engaged in such "straight talk" about the war itself, or if we had a more enlightened concept of heroism, he might not be getting so close to becoming the next president.

This language of war heroism is used unfairly to confuse unjust wars and their architects with the honor of brave soldiers. By promoting the idea that Vietnam was an honorable war and denigrating antiwar Democrats as too weak to "stay the course," Richard Nixon won the election in 1968. He then kept the war going for another five futile years, sustained by that myth.
Playing the war hero card has long been a political strategy to elect Republicans; legitimize imperial wars; and portray Democrats and peace activists as weak, cowardly, or traitorous. John Kerry, also a courageous soldier, was swift-boated as a traitor because he became a peace activist in Vietnam.

Republicans even did the same to Daniel Ellsberg, a real hero of the Vietnam era. Ellsberg was a war planner who turned against the war and in 1971, at great personal risk, released to The New York Times the "Pentagon Papers," the military's internal and damning history of the war. But as there are no peace heroes, only war heroes in the American moral discourse, President Nixon tried to indict him and many still brand him as a traitor.

Please read the entire article at:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0414/p09s01-coop.html?pag...

 
Quote
YOY  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I like how pubs can't mention him without mentioning his military service
 Kinda like pointing out that the car blatantly careening towards a cliff has a fantastic paintjob!

 
You mean like John "Served in Vietnam" Kerry dumbshit IDJIT

Quote
PerpetuallyDazed  (198 posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. ...because maybe that's the only decent thing about the man? 
 I mean, what exactly has he accomplished next to his military service?
 

Quote
tularetom  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. How is he anymore of a "hero" than Kerry?
 Just because he came to his senses and realized the thing was a cluster**** and McCain is so stupid he never did?

 :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird:

Quote
Frustratedlady  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. How much truth is there to the co-POWs who had a different story...
 as to McCain's stories and treatment? I've only seen it once and didn't read the entire article, but it didn't look too complimentary.


Quote
not_this_time (6 posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. McCain is a hero...only in his wildest imagination
 He graduated fifth from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy. He lost five planes during his short Naval aviator career. He was captured and made propaganda films for the VC. He is blocking information from Vietnam re: POWs for a very special reason. If he had nothing to be ashamed of, he should be the first person in line to ask for records to be de-classified about POW/MIA information.

So the answer is a resounding "NO'. He is not a war hero...no more than his buddy George.


 :bird: :thatsright: :bird:

Quote
DavidD  (1000+ posts)       Mon Apr-21-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. No, he's a war criminal
 But no one will say so publicly.

 
 :bird: IDJITS
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Offline djones520

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2008, 02:24:05 PM »
These people make me question why I serve sometimes...
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 02:32:42 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on April 21, 2008, 02:24:05 PM
These people make me question why I serve sometimes...

Because, even though we appreciate your service, there's nothing in the First Amendment that protects them from sounding like ****ing idiots, as they do.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 02:50:39 PM by BlueStateSaint »
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Offline Servonaut

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 03:17:46 PM »
Quote
PerpetuallyDazed  (198 posts)      Mon Apr-21-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good question! Also:
 Why's he called a "maverick"?? Please, someone explain that one to me... 


"Maverick" is a term used by the MSM to describe Republicans who sometimes
act like democrats.

From the New York Slimes.

Quote
As Mr. Voinovich's refusal to support Mr. Bolton's nomination demonstrates, "the vanishing center"-as another centrist Republican, Senator Olympia J. Snowe of Maine, often says - can still play a powerful role. There are just four core centrists in the Senate, Mr. Chafee, Ms. Collins, Ms. Snowe and Mr. Specter. They are joined from time to time by mavericks like Senators John McCain of Arizona, Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mr. Voinovich.

Some of the most liberal Republicans in the Senate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/13/politics/13assess.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 03:52:54 PM by Servonaut »
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 03:40:39 PM »
The hate is strong there.  Very strong.
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Offline jukin

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2008, 04:51:20 PM »
COuld we please return the DUchebags to their home planet?
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2008, 05:20:34 PM »
Quote from: jukin on April 21, 2008, 04:51:20 PM
COuld we please return the DUchebags to their home planet?

Only if they can be flown there along with 10 MT warheads!
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2008, 07:20:28 PM »

Good Lord.  I'm no big McCain fan, but I sure as shit wouldn't bet I could make it through the Hell he endured.  Give the man his due, you gutless liberal turdbags.

 :hammer:
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Offline delilahmused

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2008, 07:36:28 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on April 21, 2008, 07:20:28 PM

Good Lord.  I'm no big McCain fan, but I sure as shit wouldn't bet I could make it through the Hell he endured.  Give the man his due, you gutless liberal turdbags.

 :hammer:

Wait, I thought we weren't supposed to pass judgement if we hadn't walked a mile in the same shoes. I mean white people aren't supposed to say bad things about blacks or Mexicans. Men can't say anything negative about women. Straights can't talk about gays, gays can't talk about furries. Straight, white men, evidently, can't say much about anything. I guess it doesn't apply to the military, which has me confused a little bit. Because when VP Cheney says something about the war or the military they get all indignant because he didn't serve, yet they seem believe they've cornered the market on John McCain's service and how brave he was. Since most of the DUmp never served, are mostly anti-military and major pussies should they be allowed to have an opinion about John McCain OR bravery?

Cindie
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2008, 07:39:01 PM »
Well said, Cindie!

 :bow:
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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2008, 08:08:15 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on April 21, 2008, 07:20:28 PM

Good Lord.  I'm no big McCain fan, but I sure as shit wouldn't bet I could make it through the Hell he endured.  Give the man his due, you gutless liberal turdbags.

 :hammer:

Hi5
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Offline Carl

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2008, 08:12:08 PM »
Quote from: BadCat on April 21, 2008, 02:39:41 PM
Hey DUmmies!
Didn't like the Vietnam War?

Here's 4 words for you.... John Kennedy Lyndon Johnson.

You can Google as to which party they belonged.

Libs for my entire life have been trying to pass Vietnam off as Nixons war.

The thing is it doesn`t matter which party or President did what,the Vietnam war was an attempt to halt the march of Communism and that is why they hate it so.
The rest is just petty politics to them.

Those here who served in that conflict can give their take on the political decison making of the day as it relates to the conduct of the war but I am glad in the big picture we did what we did.

I will respect a man of any political persuasion that serves this country honorably.

I will never respect one that serves his own purposes as displayed by making highlight films for political ambitions,misrepresenting his service and injuries and then selling out his fellow soldiers for political expediency.
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2008, 09:20:13 PM »
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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 02:42:37 AM »
Not to be confused with, John "3 boo-boos k bai thx" Kerry.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 04:34:25 AM »
Quote from: delilahmused on April 21, 2008, 07:36:28 PM
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on April 21, 2008, 07:20:28 PM

Good Lord.  I'm no big McCain fan, but I sure as shit wouldn't bet I could make it through the Hell he endured.  Give the man his due, you gutless liberal turdbags.

 :hammer:

Wait, I thought we weren't supposed to pass judgement if we hadn't walked a mile in the same shoes. I mean white people aren't supposed to say bad things about blacks or Mexicans. Men can't say anything negative about women. Straights can't talk about gays, gays can't talk about furries. Straight, white men, evidently, can't say much about anything. I guess it doesn't apply to the military, which has me confused a little bit. Because when VP Cheney says something about the war or the military they get all indignant because he didn't serve, yet they seem believe they've cornered the market on John McCain's service and how brave he was. Since most of the DUmp never served, are mostly anti-military and major pussies should they be allowed to have an opinion about John McCain OR bravery?

Cindie

I'd H5 ya, but I already did that less than an hour ago.  It'll hafta wait until I get to work.
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Offline Uhhuh35

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 07:19:50 AM »
Please God. Please make the liberals use this as an election issue! Please, I beg of You!
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2008, 07:23:59 AM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on April 22, 2008, 04:34:25 AM
Quote from: delilahmused on April 21, 2008, 07:36:28 PM
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on April 21, 2008, 07:20:28 PM

Good Lord.  I'm no big McCain fan, but I sure as shit wouldn't bet I could make it through the Hell he endured.  Give the man his due, you gutless liberal turdbags.

 :hammer:

Wait, I thought we weren't supposed to pass judgement if we hadn't walked a mile in the same shoes. I mean white people aren't supposed to say bad things about blacks or Mexicans. Men can't say anything negative about women. Straights can't talk about gays, gays can't talk about furries. Straight, white men, evidently, can't say much about anything. I guess it doesn't apply to the military, which has me confused a little bit. Because when VP Cheney says something about the war or the military they get all indignant because he didn't serve, yet they seem believe they've cornered the market on John McCain's service and how brave he was. Since most of the DUmp never served, are mostly anti-military and major pussies should they be allowed to have an opinion about John McCain OR bravery?

Cindie

I'd H5 ya, but I already did that less than an hour ago.  It'll hafta wait until I get to work.

There!  H5!
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"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Is Senator McCain Really A "War Hero" Candidate?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2008, 08:11:02 AM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on April 22, 2008, 04:34:25 AM
Quote from: delilahmused on April 21, 2008, 07:36:28 PM
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on April 21, 2008, 07:20:28 PM

Good Lord.  I'm no big McCain fan, but I sure as shit wouldn't bet I could make it through the Hell he endured.  Give the man his due, you gutless liberal turdbags.

 :hammer:

Wait, I thought we weren't supposed to pass judgement if we hadn't walked a mile in the same shoes. I mean white people aren't supposed to say bad things about blacks or Mexicans. Men can't say anything negative about women. Straights can't talk about gays, gays can't talk about furries. Straight, white men, evidently, can't say much about anything. I guess it doesn't apply to the military, which has me confused a little bit. Because when VP Cheney says something about the war or the military they get all indignant because he didn't serve, yet they seem believe they've cornered the market on John McCain's service and how brave he was. Since most of the DUmp never served, are mostly anti-military and major pussies should they be allowed to have an opinion about John McCain OR bravery?

Cindie

I'd H5 ya, but I already did that less than an hour ago.  It'll hafta wait until I get to work.

I had one to give.
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