Author Topic: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???  (Read 5989 times)

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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2008, 01:07:04 PM »
Speaking as an outsider here. I'm not Catholic but I have been in many Catholic churches and it is mind boggling to me how opulent they are. (At the ones I've seen)

I had a real hard time going into the churches in South America. Beggars accosting you right outside the church. Priceless art and untold wealth on display inside. And before I get flamed and accused of not knowing all of the facts, I realize the Church has done charitable deeds and continues to fund such organizations. But you cannot ignore the elephant in the room. One church we visited in S.A. was filled with so much gold/silver and priceless art that a lot of the people in our group were dumbfounded. Even the tour guide (who was a local) addressed it. I felt sorry for her. She was understandably sympathetic to us "wealthy Americans" (tee hee) who didn't understand the juxtaposition of crushing poverty and Church wealth.

For this, I have two answers.

1) Some of the items used during the sacrifice of the Mass-chalices, vestments, etc.-are the personal property of the priest. Oftentimes, they are given them as gifts upon their priestly ordination. These items are indeed expensive and often opulent, but they are usually the property of individual priests and not the Church as a whole. Also, keep in mind that not every priest takes a vow of poverty.

2) Catholics believe that through the miracle of transubstantiation, the bread and wine become the Body of Jesus. It is only fitting that Jesus be exalted and treated royally. The fancy art? Why wouldn't a king have priceless art in His home?

I guess what it boils down to is that yes, it is a weird juxtaposition. But if you think about Christ as the King, and a church building as His home, it makes a little more sense. Why shouldn't we honor our Savior with the finest things we can afford?
I guess it's a matter of propriety. I grew up in a comfortable middle-class existence. Third world style poverty was jarring to me. I left those churches shaking my head. My SIL refused to even step foot in them. She stayed outside giving coins to little urchins. Yes, she's the bleeding heart liberal moonbat of the family, but I couldn't help but think she made the wiser choice that day. I did my part by buying the little knicknacks/postcards/calendars from the poor vendors right outside. I asked our tour guide if they got to keep the money and she said yes.

I attended Protestant churches my entire life. Ones were the preacher drew a modest salary and things like repairing worn out pews were debated by committee. A person like me (foolish foreigner, silly American what-have-you) sees the priceless 16th century art and craftsmanship on display in a Cathedral and thinks that it would be better suited to a muesum or private collection and the proceeds used to benefit the poor church members. I really mean no offense to Catholics. It's just a totally different world to someone like me. With the differences being even more stark in a poor country like the ones I've visited.

I understand the reasoning even though I don't believe in transubstantiation. I also don't think Jesus cares how fine the craftmanship of the church is or how much precious metal is used in the altar. We believe in honoring the Savior through our love and devotion and living the Word. That's not to say we don't take Communion seriously. But I can promise you, those little cups and trays were purchased out of a Baptist supply catalog.
 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 01:11:05 PM by DixieBelle »
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline VivisMom

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Re: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2008, 01:47:43 PM »
I guess it's a matter of propriety. I grew up in a comfortable middle-class existence. Third world style poverty was jarring to me. I left those churches shaking my head. My SIL refused to even step foot in them. She stayed outside giving coins to little urchins. Yes, she's the bleeding heart liberal moonbat of the family, but I couldn't help but think she made the wiser choice that day. I did my part by buying the little knicknacks/postcards/calendars from the poor vendors right outside. I asked our tour guide if they got to keep the money and she said yes.

I attended Protestant churches my entire life. Ones were the preacher drew a modest salary and things like repairing worn out pews were debated by committee. A person like me (foolish foreigner, silly American what-have-you) sees the priceless 16th century art and craftsmanship on display in a Cathedral and thinks that it would be better suited to a muesum or private collection and the proceeds used to benefit the poor church members. I really mean no offense to Catholics. It's just a totally different world to someone like me. With the differences being even more stark in a poor country like the ones I've visited.

I understand the reasoning even though I don't believe in transubstantiation. I also don't think Jesus cares how fine the craftmanship of the church is or how much precious metal is used in the altar. We believe in honoring the Savior through our love and devotion and living the Word. That's not to say we don't take Communion seriously. But I can promise you, those little cups and trays were purchased out of a Baptist supply catalog.
 

There is no offense taken, trust me. But I understand that it is weird to non-Catholics to see how ornate and opulent our churches are.

I agree with you that I don't think Jesus cares if our chalices and patens are solid gold or not; however, the rationale behind it is that Jesus is a king, and should be treated as such.


Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2008, 01:54:42 PM »
^No, I totally understand where you are coming from. I found the cathedrals breathtaking and I admired the love and devotion that went into them. To know that craftsmen spent literally a lifetime carving the intricate altars brought a tear to my eye. But yes, it was hard to reconcile in my Protestant mind. The church my family attends started in an auto auction garage! 14 families used to meet there and sit on metal chairs until there was enough money to buy land and build a chapel. I was able to witness the ceremonial burning of the mortgage a few years ago. Apples and penguins though. You really can't compare ancient cathedrals to modern middle class American churches.
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Chris_

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Re: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2008, 01:55:29 PM »
Speaking as an outsider here. I'm not Catholic but I have been in many Catholic churches and it is mind boggling to me how opulent they are. (At the ones I've seen)

I had a real hard time going into the churches in South America. Beggars accosting you right outside the church. Priceless art and untold wealth on display inside. And before I get flamed and accused of not knowing all of the facts, I realize the Church has done charitable deeds and continues to fund such organizations. But you cannot ignore the elephant in the room. One church we visited in S.A. was filled with so much gold/silver and priceless art that a lot of the people in our group were dumbfounded. Even the tour guide (who was a local) addressed it. I felt sorry for her. She was understandably sympathetic to us "wealthy Americans" (tee hee) who didn't understand the juxtaposition of crushing poverty and Church wealth.

It is part of why I left The Church.  I couldn't resolve that (among others) conflict. The new Cathedral of Angels cost $187 million.  You can feed a lot of hungry for even half that and still have a wonderful edifice.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline VivisMom

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Re: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2008, 02:18:22 PM »
Speaking as an outsider here. I'm not Catholic but I have been in many Catholic churches and it is mind boggling to me how opulent they are. (At the ones I've seen)

I had a real hard time going into the churches in South America. Beggars accosting you right outside the church. Priceless art and untold wealth on display inside. And before I get flamed and accused of not knowing all of the facts, I realize the Church has done charitable deeds and continues to fund such organizations. But you cannot ignore the elephant in the room. One church we visited in S.A. was filled with so much gold/silver and priceless art that a lot of the people in our group were dumbfounded. Even the tour guide (who was a local) addressed it. I felt sorry for her. She was understandably sympathetic to us "wealthy Americans" (tee hee) who didn't understand the juxtaposition of crushing poverty and Church wealth.

It is part of why I left The Church.  I couldn't resolve that (among others) conflict. The new Cathedral of Angels cost $187 million.  You can feed a lot of hungry for even half that and still have a wonderful edifice.


UGH! That Cathedral is 1) an eyesore and 2) a shameful display of greed on the part of that diocese.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Is the Pope ever gonna LEAVE???
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2008, 02:58:51 PM »
Well no wonder the DUmmies are upset!!!  :-)

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irZmknvOB4I[/youtube]
:tongue: :fuelfire:

I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle