primitives discuss digging up lawns

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x9176

Oh my.

txlibdem  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-19-11 09:36 PM
Original message
 
At what point do you give up and just dig up your lawn, start all over

Our lawn is about 80% weeds in some parts, maybe 50/50 in others. I've applied all of the Home Depot/Lowes recommended weed treatments and fertilizers but the weeds always outnumber the blades of grass. This has been a battle for 4 years now and I'm losing ground with each coming season.

When do I just give up the ghost and kill off the lawn and start over with freshly graded and amended dirt?

I've looked into the following to kill the weeds and grass:
MSMA
Roundup
Laying down overlapping rows of plastic
Laying down overlapping rows of tarp

Am I giving up too quickly? Should I give a lawn company a try? My neighbors on either side have a lawn company just to do the weed control. But that would stress the budget ($40 7 times a year).

Any thoughts? Have you tried any of the above (and how did it turn out for you)?

xxxxxx xxx xxxxx  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-19-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. When we bought our house 30+ years ago, the lawn was like that

We hired a lawn service that, unlike GreenLawn or ChemLawn or one of the spray-stuff-and-run services, did the work manually. It cost at least twice as much as the ChemLawn service but over the course of two seasons they got us a great lawn that still looks pretty good to this day. They aerated several times but never tilled. They limed, and weed-killed, and fertilized, and seeded. We watered and cut and maintained. It cost more, but the results were very nice. They had always told us that they'd be out of a job with us in two years and they were. They didn't provide routine lawn mowing, just this program.

I think they were called SuperLawn. I think they were a franchise. I have no idea if they still exist.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Fri May-20-11 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. There are different methods to correct that.

One way about it is to use the round up and kill of those weeds and everything else. Maybe spread the landscape liner after it is all dead. Than-build up the lawn area with top soil -five inches or 8"'s there about. Than roll it with a water roller -you rent that-or a compactor- if you use a compactor go with 8 inch's of top soil. Than spread lime as directed and from there you reseed. But you use the quick grow and with-in two weeks you will have that lawn you want. Of course you water the lawn every day for the first month or so.

Same procedure if you go with sod-the instant lawn. The specialty seed - grows very quickly and you get that stuff and a consult at a nursery which would be the same kind of place that supplies the places you get yer top soil from or sod-instant lawn- or beauty bark -rock all that. Professional landscapers or landscape design specialist's buy their materials from the big outfits-usually located in the rural districts-you would look up landscape suppliers or ask your local outfit where you buy beauty bark and top soil -sod -trees all that who their suppliers are.

Or at lowe's or home depot garden-where do they get their sod-instant grass .

Years ago a property management outfit offered me a bunch of money to solve a problem similar to yours-except it was moss- these were condo's- each unit had a front lawn and half of those unites had moss for a lawn because the property was essentially pan rock. What they do is dump about 8 inch's of top soil over the pan rock and plant over the top of it- that might last without proper maintenance for about 5 to 8 years if it's done properly. But thats over pan rock.

OK so, first off go to a nursery and get a consult-that's what I did ,You might take a 12"by 12 " sample with you dirt and all. I am no landscaper but for that kind of money I became one for the duration of the project !
Originally ,I was going to go with top soil and sod-but on the consult -they said sod will cost far more than you need to spend- this was sod farm.

I took the problem to a big outfit, got a lengthy consult for free,, came away with that with a specialty grass seed -insta grow enough to solve the whole of the problem the lime-and the rest is the top soil and the labor.

It was actually my supplier for drain rock and other construction associated materials that sent me to their supplier. All outlets such as home depot and lowe's for example buy from local suppliers-be it roofing materials-or lumber-or doors or windows or cabinets or whatever. And you can buy from their suppliers too.Suppliers sell to most anybody-but who would think to make the trip ?

So first of all you need a professional consult at the source-and it's free.

Good luck with your project and do not despair-there is always a solution.

txlibdem  (1000+ posts)        Fri May-20-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
3. Thanks for the reply

Darn, that's a lot of work. I'm leaning toward the roundup plus plastic covering for the lawn, especially since we have several huge outbreaks of Dallasgrass on the southern front, s. rear and n. rear sections of the yard. The remedy for this native grass? Dig up the plants and remove all soil where the seeds may have fallen. Sounds like a cancer more than a weed.

Our HOA is a stickler for maintaining the grading exactly as the engineers planned it so I'd have to dig out 8" before I could put in 8". Gawd, that would suck!

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Fri May-20-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
 
4. You may not need the 8 inch's of top soil

Take the problem to a nursery and find out what they say about solving the problem. Not the nursery at home depot -but a landscape supply outfit in your locality. Such a place will sell commercial products that hardware stores don't.

It's like I said there is a solution- but you got to get to the right place. Go where they grow in your locality ! Take a 12" by 12 ' sample with you -dirt and all .Have you ever seen sod-grass ? Phone book is the place to start -make some calls . People who specialize in horticulture in your locality will understand the very nature of your problem. Persons who work in stores such as home depot or any hardware outfit are just sales-people -they will tell what the product says on the bag or container !

A landscape supply outfit will carry commercial grade products that you will not find at hardware stores. And you won't find horticulturists at hardware stores either ! Go where they grow !

txlibdem  (1000+ posts)        Sat May-21-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. We have a local nursery but they're not exactly a helpful bunch there

I've tried to engage various employees there in conversation about my yard debacle and all they do is point me to the shelves where they stock "natural" pest and weed killers. The only other nursery I know of in the area (how shall I put this delicately) they have a great selection but there is a language barrier -- not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. No help there, just more pointing me to the aisles of supplements with no "how to" help.

I've sent a couple emails to the local extension service but haven't received a response yet.

There is a local radio personality called "The Dirt Doctor" who sells organic lawn supplements, etc., but you have to sign up for a subscription to his newsletter to get any real answers. I'm leaning toward trying that out.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Sat May-21-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
7. Try searching outside of your locality

A big landscape supply outfit where you buy beauty bark and top soil by the truck load-you know -where they use a pay loader with the bucket to load it on yer truck. An outfit that has professionals there for the express purpose of consulting customers with problems such as yours.

If nobody at a nursery you went to could say or do more than point-than that is a shabby operation. Go where they grow.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I actually have some experience with this.  When I bought my first house within the city limits of Chicago, the entire backyard was concrete.  For those of you who are familiar with the common lots in Chicago, at least it wasn't a huge backyard.  We just bought the house from complete morons.

We had most of the concrete removed from the backyard, and they used the remnants to help re-build the front steps of the house.  So I got to plant an entirely new backyard from scratch.  I can't recall how many yards of dirt I had brought in, but it took me all afternoon to wheelbarrow it from the alley to the yard.  While Chicago is still technically the Midwest, the soil is nothing like that the type you'll find in the farming areas.  So this was a bit of a project.

Planting sod would have been the logical thing, but rather expensive.  I had a few gardening/lawn books from my father-in-law, so I used that advice to put a proper mixture of fertilizer in with the soil.  I found some hearty grass to plant that would withstand the weather and our new puppy.  Within about six weeks, that yard was excellent.  Eventually, I re-did the front yard as well.

[JohnnyReb]

I went down "the lawn" road several times many years ago. My thoughts on a lawn now are, weeds briars, bushes, if it's green and I mower it, it's "lawn".

[jukin]

Once again my mental picture of a DUmmy is proved correct.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I went down "the lawn" road several times many years ago. My thoughts on a lawn now are, weeds briars, bushes, if it's green and I mower it, it's "lawn".

This is my approach as well, I find it remarkably trouble-free and easy to maintain.   

In this particular DUmmorrhoid's case, though, he might find it productive to actually get off his ass and pull the weeds as he identifies them, it's a big job at the start but it gets 'progressively' easier over time.  All it requires is regular effort, which is of course likely to be a problem with a Democrat. 

[I_B_Perky]

I went down "the lawn" road several times many years ago. My thoughts on a lawn now are, weeds briars, bushes, if it's green and I mower it, it's "lawn".

Same here!

Except for this certain type of grass I got off my dad. He gave me 6 plugs. So I plugged them in the back yard to make him happy and forgot about it. That was 15 years ago.  Now half of the back yard has it, one side and half the front.  Real thick grass. Turns brown in the winter. During a drought that stuff stays green. Dunno what it is... a real bitch to push the mower through. Doesn't get real tall either. Feels almost like plush carpet if you walk thru it barefoot. Too lazy to dig it up and plant something else. The rest of the yard is weeds, crabgrass and clover. It's green though!

I know a guy up at work that had... not kidding here... some kind of astroturf put on his lawn. Said he hated to mow.

[diesel driver]

I'm surprised not one primitive suggested going to a local organic farmer and loading up a truck with manure.

Probably didn't occur to them for a couple of reasons. 

Too much like work.

They're already full of shit.

[zeitgeist]

Same here!

Except for this certain type of grass I got off my dad. He gave me 6 plugs. So I plugged them in the back yard to make him happy and forgot about it. That was 15 years ago.  Now half of the back yard has it, one side and half the front.  Real thick grass. Turns brown in the winter. During a drought that stuff stays green. Dunno what it is... a real bitch to push the mower through. Doesn't get real tall either. Feels almost like plush carpet if you walk thru it barefoot. Too lazy to dig it up and plant something else. The rest of the yard is weeds, crabgrass and clover. It's green though!

I know a guy up at work that had... not kidding here... some kind of astroturf put on his lawn. Said he hated to mow.

Take a look at the link.  Based on your description I would guess this is it.  

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/turf/publications/zoysia.html?vm=r

My neighbor has it and it has slowly been invading my side yard for years.    I have yet to put a boundry strip in to prevent it but one day may. ( It looks like crap when it browns out )

I used a lawn service for several years but finally gave up on them.  They never managed to get the right stuff down at the right time whether it was weed control or pest control.  My efforts are less expensive and more effective.  

[vesta111]

The soil we have here is horrid, I think it was shipped in from the area that some volcano blew up as I find bits and pieces of lava rock from time to time.

I have taken a page out of Lady Bird Johnson and in the areas that are too bad to grow weeds  and planted wildflowers.

Last few years the birds droppings have seeds that take root, stuff quite unusual and I fence them off and let the suckers grow just to see what the heck kind of plant it is. If the plant is interesting and colorful I ignore it, if the plant is mangy then it is mowed.    

 Manicured green lawn is nice but boaring, this is most unnatural  and high maintenance. I love the look of the cottages with a riot of colors, and gardens that are self kept.

If I wish to live in a tickie tacky home that is identical to all others on the street, then I would, but I have no interest in having a lush green lawn for the enjoyment of my neighbores that have the same.

 I take the soil as it is, clay, sandy, crap, and find out what kind of plant will do well in the soil as it is, to  my surprise the soil near the house is perfect for some types of Roses,  the back yard is great for
mint and swamp flowers that the birds drop.

I guess I am just one of those people that need a surprise now and then, so I have an area that needs lime and federalize for growth of a specific plant, not my style.   Much more fun to find out what can be grown in that area, put down some seeds and watch what happends next.-------If I don't like it, mow he sucker  down and plant someting else.

    

[compaqxp]

I went down "the lawn" road several times many years ago. My thoughts on a lawn now are, weeds briars, bushes, if it's green and I mower it, it's "lawn".

Same thing I do. My "lawn" is easy to maintain and greener the that of anyone else thanks to this method.

[Lacarnut]

First thing is to get a soil sample to determine whether or not what you have on top can be salvaged. A well balanced soil, water and good fertilizer is the secret. If thatch is a problem, aeration will be required with the plugs removed and verti-cutting. If the thatch is too thick, you will need a sod cutter to remove all the grass. Then topdressed with good soil, sand and peat moss mixture. All of this is labor intensive and expensive if you hire it out. You just can not have a beautiful yard on crappy soil.

[GOBUCKS]

Another big money saver here in red state hell. The blistering weather, and the worthless, poor soil make a lawn something you either ignore, or spend money on endlessly with no chance of a good result. When first moving here, we were astounded to see hundreds of gorgeous homes surrounded by pathetic weedy lawns. The finest lawns I've seen here would be an embarrassment in the North, but the only money we spend is for a crew to mow. Maybe it was different before George Bush caused global warming.

[I_B_Perky]

Take a look at the link.  Based on your description I would guess this is it.  

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/turf/publications/zoysia.html?vm=r

My neighbor has it and it has slowly been invading my side yard for years.    I have yet to put a boundry strip in to prevent it but one day may. ( It looks like crap when it browns out )

I used a lawn service for several years but finally gave up on them.  They never managed to get the right stuff down at the right time whether it was weed control or pest control.  My efforts are less expensive and more effective.  

Well that sure sounds like it. That grass creeps. It looks great in the summer in the middle of a drought, I'll give it that. Weeds don't grow in it and neither does clover. I ain't sure a boundry strip gonna do you any good though.

Feels nice when you walk thru it barefoot... until you have to push a mower thru it.

[zeitgeist]

Well that sure sounds like it. That grass creeps. It looks great in the summer in the middle of a drought, I'll give it that. Weeds don't grow in it and neither does clover. I ain't sure a boundry strip gonna do you any good though.

Feels nice when you walk thru it barefoot... until you have to push a mower thru it.

One theory is to run the tiller straight down the line removing the sod making a mulch barrier which could then be treated with weed begone and planted with flowers. 

If only it didn't brown out in the winter and look like crap for so long it would be perfect.

I have moved a couple of plugs using a bulb planter.  It works well.  This grass is also virtually child proof from what I can see.

[Randy]

*COU winter rye GH*