primitives discuss seeding versus sodding

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x9169

Oh my.

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Thu May-19-11 07:27 AM
Original message

Seed or sod?

Here is my experience.

When we moved into this house in 1989 it was bank owned. The previous owner must have never got the money together to do any landscaping.

The yard was dirt and weeds. Mud after it rained. About a third of an acre. Needed some grass for my kids and dogs.

Couldn't afford to have the entire lot sodded so we had half sodded and the other half seeded. Sod for half was a few grand. Seed for the other half was a few hundred ducks. The seed came from the same company the sod was grown with so it was identical. Same black dirt hauled in too. About the same amount of sun and shade too.

Well after over 20 years of caring for it I can firmly say I wish I had seeded the entire thing. The seeded area is just about maintenance free. Thick, no weeds, green, can take a drought no problem. Just cut it.

The half that was sodded is a constant pain. Browns out easily. Takes a long time to recover after winter. Twice as long as the seeded area. Something all the time going wrong with it.

Probably never need to do this again myself but I am sure others will so I hope this information helps.

Warpy  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-19-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. You really have to prepare what goes under the sod and then roll it so that the roots make contact with and penetrate into the soil under it. You can't just lay it, roll it once, and forget it.

Sod is great if you're selling your house and want a fast lawn. It really doesn't work well for the long haul, IMO, unless you're a golf course and have a bunch of guys who are willing to do the work to make sure it takes.

Seed is the way to go, you're right about that. I could never afford sod, so seeding is what I always did.

NMDemDist2  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-19-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. funny, my experience was exactly opposite when we installed the pool in Phoenix, the yard was a mess. we had tried seeding and seeding previously but always had patchy and weedy results, never a good lawn. after the pool we decided the heck with seed, we ordered sod. we did do some prep but no tilling, just added amendments and raked and dug em in. the sod went in and was great year after year. no weeds, no patches and took much less water in the Arizona summers.

i'm in New Mexico now and am seeding and seeding, but with very poor results. since we just added a deck, patio and storage building my budget isn't ready to order in sod, but i sure wish i could!

When franksolich was 10 years old, the family moved from alongside the Platte River, into the deep interior of the Sandhills of Nebraska, and into a brand-new house.

There was no lawn; the whole thing had to be built from the ground up.

The front yard was sodded, the back yard was planted.

The grass grew fast and thick in the backyard--it was a pain to mow unless one mowed it twice a week--while the grass in the front yard grew okay, but so-so.

The sod had come from Grand Island, meaning its soil was not that of the Sandhills, but that of the rich black-soil Platte River area, meaning it had more nutrients and all that other stuff that things need, to grow.

I could never figure that out.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I have always let Nature take her course, and tried to keep it mowed oftern enough that it won't actually stall the mower when I do get to it.

 

[franksolich]

I have always let Nature take her course, and tried to keep it mowed oftern enough that it won't actually stall the mower when I do get to it.

One of the differences between the soil of the farming Platte River and the soil of the cattling Sandhills is that the former is rich in earthworms, while there are no earthworms in the latter.

And thus one of my scientific experiments, when I was 11 years old; my mother had advised me that the soil was so stingy where we now lived, because there were no earthworms under it, to mix it up and fertilize it.

One time after visiting our old town, I came back with three shoeboxes full of black Platte River dirt and congested with earthworms.  Worms were never my thing, but as with most of nature, because they're a part of nature, I just accept them, and move on.

I planted them where we had a large garden, with dreams and fantasies of they turning the light brown soil to deep black.

I might as well have put penguins in the Amazon; despite that they were carefully buried, with some of their own native soil as temporary nourishment until they got used to their new environment, they apparently died shortly thereafter.

The lesson I learned from that was that God and nature have their own plans, their own ways, and any attempts by man to change, alter, or thwart either, is pretty much futile. 

[NHSparky]

Huh...guess the DUmmies haven't heard of hydroseeding yet.

And Scoobie has done an incredible job with the landscaping projects she took on under her own initiative.

We're definitely going to have to post pics later.  When she can move without screaming.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Huh...guess the DUmmies haven't heard of hydroseeding yet.

And Scoobie has done an incredible job with the landscaping projects she took on under her own initiative.

We're definitely going to have to post pics later.  When she can move without screaming.

So that's your sodding opinion, then?

 

[GOBUCKS]

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Thu May-19-11 07:27 AM
Original message

Seed or sod?

Here is my experience.

When we moved into this house in 1989 it was bank owned.

I assure you, ownership of the house has not changed.

DUmmy CapsLock will not get a lot of activity on this thread.
For most DUmbasses, a lawn is a two-foot wide strip of grass around the apartment house parking lot, where residents allow their dogs to crap.
For the others, it's a blacktop parking pad between trailers.
So sod vs. seed isn't an issue that gets a lot of democrat attention.

[Paul Heinzman]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x9169

Oh my.

When franksolich was 10 years old, the family moved from alongside the Platte River, into the deep interior of the Sandhills of Nebraska, and into a brand-new house.

There was no lawn; the whole thing had to be built from the ground up.

The front yard was sodded, the back yard was planted.

The grass grew fast and thick in the backyard--it was a pain to mow unless one mowed it twice a week--while the grass in the front yard grew okay, but so-so.

The sod had come from Grand Island, meaning its soil was not that of the Sandhills, but that of the rich black-soil Platte River area, meaning it had more nutrients and all that other stuff that things need, to grow.

I could never figure that out.

A couple of factors come into play. Soil quality is one part, but as in your case, you are seeing the opposite of what you expect. Grass type plays a bigger role. I can only speak about grass types that are viable in Ohio, but if you sod with Kentucky bluegrass and seed with a red fescue or one of the new and improved tall fescues on the market now, the bluegrass will only look really good if you constantly preen it, fertilize it and water it. It'll look like a picture, but your water bill through the dry months will send you into convulsions.

OTOH, the fescue will need mowing at least once a week in all but the driest weeks, even in the worst imaginable soil, and won't need any more fertilizer than your dog provides. It looks pretty right after you mow it, but the blades are rather heavy and tend to grow unevenly.

[franksolich]

A couple of factors come into play. Soil quality is one part, but as in your case, you are seeing the opposite of what you expect. Grass type plays a bigger role. I can only speak about grass types that are viable in Ohio, but if you sod with Kentucky bluegrass and seed with a red fescue or one of the new and improved tall fescues on the market now, the bluegrass will only look really good if you constantly preen it, fertilize it and water it. It'll look like a picture, but your water bill through the dry months will send you into convulsions.

OTOH, the fescue will need mowing at least once a week in all but the driest weeks, even in the worst imaginable soil, and won't need any more fertilizer than your dog provides. It looks pretty right after you mow it, but the blades are rather heavy and tend to grow unevenly.

Yeah, I was a kid when this was going on, and so didn't pay much attention.

I recall that one time my father mentioned the grass in the front was different--i.e., a different sort of grass--from the grass in the back, and that the grass in the back was "more acclimatized" to the Sandhills.

[JohnnyReb]

Let me tell you about the sandhills of South Carolina. That's where my mother was born and raised before marrying my daddy and moving to red clay country.

Well about 20 years ago a 'fool' I know bought a few acres in the sandhills area where my mother was raised. He put a double wide on it for him and his new bride. I cleared a few acres of black jacks for his home , yard and a garden spot. He said he was tired of eating store bought food and going to start raising his own. He said he was going to can and freeze enough stuff to never have to buy that kind of stuff in a store again. Said he going to send off soil samples to Clemson University and have it tested. he said whatever they said it needed he was going to put it out there no matter what the cost...going to have a damn garden no matter what...cost be damned...he was going to have the best garden anyone ever had.

A few months later I was sitting in a local country store when the 'fool' came sliding into the store yard. He lived about 40 miles away but work brought him thru my area every once in a while. He jumped out of his truck and came in the store. Said he saw my truck and just wanted to stop and visit with me a little bit.

We stepped outside where we could talk more. After awhile I thought of his garden and asked how it had done. He said, "You know I told you I was going to send Clemson some soil samples and whatever it needed it was going to get." I answered in the affirmative that I remembered him saying that. He said, "Well, you know, one day I looked the mailbox and there it was, one of them big yellow government type envelopes with a Clemson return address. I figured for sure it was the soil sample results for my garden spot. I tore that envelope open and in there I found a sympathy card and two books of foodstamps."

  Yep, that just about describes the sandhills of S.C..

[franksolich]

Good one, John, sir.

I imagine it's probable, though, that the Sandhills of South Carolina are different from the Sandhills of Nebraska.

The Sandhills out here are actually very fertile.....if one grows those things God and nature intended to be grown here.  If one tries to introduce something from Iowa or Mississippi or Arizona, no, it's not going to grow.

Always best to adapt to nature, than to attempt to change it.

[JohnnyReb]

Good one, John, sir.

I imagine it's probable, though, that the Sandhills of South Carolina are different from the Sandhills of Nebraska.

The Sandhills out here are actually very fertile.....if one grows those things God and nature intended to be grown here.  If one tries to introduce something from Iowa or Mississippi or Arizona, no, it's not going to grow.

Always best to adapt to nature, than to attempt to change it.

Black jack oaks, long leaf pine and gnats is the about the only things that grow native in our sandhills.

I once built a 30 pond for irrigation in a sandhill swamp. I needed to find clay for the core of the dam and the core wall of the damn. I had dug down about 18 feet in the cutoff trench trying to reach clay to base the core and dam on.

I stopped to get a drink and talk to an old man that had come up and was watching me work. He was marveling at the cutoff trench I had dug. I told him I was looking for clay. I asked him, "How far do you reckon it is to clay around here?" He said, "There's a clay pit about three miles down the road." I said, "No. I mean straight down." He said, "I 'spect it's closer down the road."  

The sand in the sandhills here is so deep that things starve for water in the summer. I've pushed(dug up really) long leaf pine trees with 40 to 50 foot long tap roots. The streams in the sandhills never run dry but most plants on the surface just can't get roots down to that water table.

But our sandhills and your sandhills do seem to have one thing in common growing in them...dam good people.

format corrected by franksolich; never mind, and carry on.....

[franksolich]

Forty to fifty-foot long taproots?

Here, the water's pretty close to the surface.

In fact, it's usually so close to the surface it severely undermines roads.

Nebraska was called the "Great American Desert" in the early 1800s by a primitive exploring the area, and like a modern-day primitive, he had the attitude, "If I don't see it, it doesn't exist."

So as a consequence, the Sandhills of Nebraska were one of the last places settled, in the continental United States.  Eastern Nebraska was settled during the late 1850s (but only very thinly; Nebraska had less than 10,000 people when it became a state in 1867), the Platte River area all during the 1870s, and dutch508's territory, out in western Nebraska, about the early 1870s.

The vast interior of the state remained unpeopled until about 1900, when nonprimitives found that there was unlimited water under the Sandhills, just a few digs with a spade.  The Sandhills of Nebraska is the Saudi Arabia of subterranean water, the largest underground reservoir of fresh water in the world.

The oldest building in the Sandhills town (population 3,000) where I lived when I was 10 years old, was a two-story structure marked "MDMXI"--1911.  To me, that seemed about as old as the Pyramids of Egypt or Stonehenge or the Acropolis.....or at the very least, as old as the Tower of London.

[GOBUCKS]

The oldest building in the Sandhills town (population 3,000) where I lived when I was 10 years old, was a two-story structure marked "MDMXI"--1911. 

That reminds me. I know current public education has abandoned the teaching of Latin, in favor of demonstrating how to wear and use condoms, but has it been dumbed down enough to eliminate Roman numerals? Can our current crop of little gangbangers decipher the copyright date at the end of a movie?

[franksolich]

That reminds me. I know current public education has abandoned the teaching of Latin, in favor of demonstrating how to wear and use condoms, but has it been dumbed down enough to eliminate Roman numerals? Can our current crop of little gangbangers decipher the copyright date at the end of a movie?

You know, that's a very good question.

And alas I notice I erred, myself.

It should be "MCMXI," 1911, not MDMXI, which was 1411.

Ooops.