Obama administration floats draft plan to tax cars by the mile

[thundley4]

See the top of page 1-4.

[Eupher]

That $20 million that would be earmarked for yet another ****ing federal bureaucracy could be used to repair a few creaky bridges.

[formerlurker]

Obama administration floats draft plan to tax cars by the mile
By Pete Kasperowicz - 05/05/11 07:45 AM ET


The Obama administration has floated a transportation authorization bill that would require the study and implementation of a plan to tax automobile drivers based on how many miles they drive.

.....

Among other things, CBO suggested that a vehicle miles traveled (VMT) tax could be tracked by installing electronic equipment on each car to determine how many miles were driven; payment could take place electronically at filling stations.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/159397-obama-floats-plan-to-tax-cars-by-the-mile




I am so, so, so, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo screwed if this ever happens.

[BEG]

So is e everyone who has lost their job and has taken another job far away from home to survive or people who have to live fairly far from work because their office is in an expensive area.  We are already taxed on our gas, this is BS.

[JohnnyReb]

So is e everyone who has lost their job and has taken another job far away from home to survive or people who have to live fairly far from work because their office is in an expensive area.  We are already taxed on our gas, this is BS.

No, they're going to get you into electric cars because they have limited range.....and you can't stock pile electricity like you can gas. So then they can not only control how far you can go but when you go. Until then and forever more they're going to track where you go. They can determine if you're involved in clandestine operations, how many envolved, where you meet and how big a threat you are.....tin foil hat is now back in the closet.

[RightCoast]

As I've said before a VMT hits me twice as I currently deduct the 25k+ miles I drive every year for work. I would immediately have to get a new job, along with many, many other outside salespeople. This administration is truly trying to destroy our economy.  Please God make sure this loser doesn't get reelected.

[Evil_Conservative]

I'll just disconnect their tracking device.  Suck it, government.

[JohnnyReb]

I'll just disconnect their tracking device.  Suck it, government.

The device will be in the computer and if you disable it, the car won't run.

[Janice]

This is not just a draft. This is a go. This is what they are going to ram through our 'fearless and outspoken' GOP leadership.

[Mr Mannn]

This is a good illustration of the Democrat tendency to tax everything...But I doubt the GOP is stupid enough to pass this legislation.

[Janice]

This is a good illustration of the Democrat tendency to tax everything...But I doubt the GOP is stupid enough to pass this legislation.

I think you underestimate them. The (current) GOP has been on knee pads for so long, they have become permanently attached Im afraid.

Ive never seen such a group of sun tanned individuals so adamantly capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Gina]

I'll just disconnect their tracking device.  Suck it, government.

then it goes rectally 

[Evil_Conservative]

The device will be in the computer and if you disable it, the car won't run.

I have an 11 year old car... want to bet?

The government can easily install these type of tracking devices on brand new cars.  My husband is really smart when it comes to wiring cars and electronics in cars.  He went to school for it and that's what he does in his career.  We could disconnect it and still have our vehicles run.

[Chris_]

They'll just check your odometer when you take your car in for the annual inspection and send you a bill.

[Gina]

They'll just check your odometer when you take your car in for the annual inspection and send you a bill.

turn it back?

[Janice]

turn it back?

I use my tachometer, but Ive never tried this:

Detach the cable and use your tachometer. (Just takes a little practice (using the tach) according to me hubby)

 

[JohnnyReb]

I use my tachometer, but Ive never tried this:

Detach the cable and use your tachometer. (Just takes a little practice (using the tach) according to me hubby)

 

Drove semi's and my Ford pickup with just a tach for years.

[Evil_Conservative]

They'll just check your odometer when you take your car in for the annual inspection and send you a bill.

They could... but my car odometer digital face fades in and out a lot.  There is a loose connection somewhere and we just don't feel like fixing it since it doesn't affect the cars performance.  If we need to see the mileage, we just tap the screen and it turns on.

Not every state has required inspections though.  Unless this bill would force states to hire a whole separate office to do these inspections.  Which, of course, would be no shocker at all. 

[formerlurker]

SEC. 2218.  SURFACE TRANSPORTATION REVENUE ALTERNATIVES OFFICE.
 
 (a) ESTABLISHMENT.--The Secretary shall establish within the Federal Highway Administration a Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office to
analyze a range of revenue-generating alternatives that could convey prices to users to reflect system use and other travel externalities while serving as a funding source for surface transportation programs. Undated USDOT draft reauthorization bill  Obtained by Transportation Weekly

 (b) PURPOSES.--The purposes of the Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office shall be to--
(1) create a study framework that defines the functionality of a mileagebased user fee system and other systems, including those suitable for vehicles
using fuel not taxable under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;
(2) evaluate system design alternatives for such systems; 
(3) conduct field trials to demonstrate and test such systems; 
(4) increase public awareness regarding the need for an alternative funding source for surface transportation programs and provide information on possible
approaches; and
(5) provide recommendations regarding adoption and implementation of a mileage-based user fee system or other system.

(c) SURFACE TRANSPORTATION REVENUE ALTERNATIVES POLICY DECISION GROUP.--
(1) IN GENERAL.--Within 1 year of the enactment of this Act, the Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office shall establish and lead a
Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Policy Decision Group, hereinafter referred to as "the Group", to inform the selection and evaluation of mileagebased user fee systems.   
(2) MEMBERSHIP.--The Group shall consist of public agency representatives as determined by the Secretary, including the Department of
Energy; the Department of the Treasury; the Environmental Protection Agency; other appropriate Federal and State agencies and associations; and public toll authorities.
(3) FUNCTIONS.--Within 2 years of establishment, the Group shall, at a minimum--
(A) create a study framework that defines the functionality of mileage-based user fee systems and other systems, including those 
suitable for vehicles using fuel not taxable under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;
(B) identify systems for field testing and provide objectives to assess technological, administrative, institutional, privacy, and other issues
associated with identified systems; 
(C) establish a public awareness communications plan; and
(D) define the system design of alternatives of interest, including consideration of high-level system architectures; interoperability standards
and communication protocols; and equipment standards.
 (4) TRANSPARENCY.--
 (A) OPEN MEETINGS.--Interested persons shall be permitted to attend meetings of the Group or file statements with the Group, subject to
any reasonable rules or regulations that may be prescribed.
(B) AVAILABILITY OF RECORDS.--The records, reports, transcripts, minutes, appendices, working papers, drafts, studies, agenda, or other documents which are made available to or prepared for or by the Group shall be made available to the public.
(C) LIMITATION.--The requirements of this paragraph shall not apply if the Secretary determines that it is in the public interest that such meeting or information should be closed to the public in order to prevent the disclosure of matters that--
(i) should be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy;
(ii) are specifically exempted from disclosure by statute;
(iii) involve trade secrets and commercial or financial information that are obtained from a person and are privileged or confidential; or
(iv) would likely frustrate the purposes of the Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office.
(5) APPLICABILITY OF FEDERAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE ACT.--
The Group shall not be subject to the Federal Advisory Committee Act (5 U.S.C. App.). 
 (d) FIELD TRIALS.--
(1) IN GENERAL.--No later than 4 years after the enactment of this Act, the Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office shall conduct field trials
of mileage-based user fee systems identified by the Group for testing.
(2) CONSIDERATIONS.--The Office shall consider, at a minimum, the following issues in constructing field trials--
(1) capability of States to coordinate administrative and financial functions, including charging out-of-state vehicles and enforcing payment; 
(2) reliability of technology over greater distances and terrains; 
(3) administrative cost estimates; and 
(4) user acceptance.
(3) GROUP.--The Group shall provide recommendations for the field trials.
(4) REVENUE.--Any revenue collected from field trials conducted under this section shall not be deemed to be tolls prohibited under section 301 of title
23, United States Code, if the revenue collected is to be a substitute for, or supplement to, a State fuel tax.   
(5) REPORT.--Not later than September 30, 2017, the Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office shall make available a report of its
findings to date in an electronic format accessible to the public.
(e) FUNDING.--
 (1) AUTHORIZATION.--The following sums are authorized to be appropriated from the Highway Account of the Transportation Trust Fund to carry
out this section: 
   (A) $20,000,000 for fiscal year 2012.
   (B) $20,000,000 for fiscal year 2013.
   (C) $130,000,000 for fiscal year 2014.
   (D) $100,000,000 for fiscal year 2015. 
      (E) $25,000,000 for fiscal year 2016.   Undated USDOT draft reauthorization bill  Obtained by Transportation Weekly
170
   (F) $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2017. 
(2) ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES.-- Of amounts authorized under paragraph (1), the Secretary may use such sums as necessary for administrative
expenses for implementing the activities described in this section.
(f) APPLICABILITY OF TITLE 23.-- Funds made available to carry out this section shall be available for obligation and administered in the same manner as if such funds were apportioned under chapter 1 of title 23, United States Code; except that such funds shall remain available until expended.   

http://thehill.com/images/stories/blogs/flooraction/Jan2011/draftdot.pdf


What private financial records -- for mileage????   What in the hell are they expecting from us to operate a vehicle now?

This just keeps getting worse the deeper you dig. 

[NHSparky]

I guess these assholes have never heard of the Fourth Amendment.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Unless you're driving a really old car with an analog electric system, your computer logs the miles whether they show on your dash or not.  Of course there is still a physical input that could be disabled at some point, but I expect it also logs engine hours.

[Doc]

Unless you're driving a really old car with an analog electric system, your computer logs the miles whether they show on your dash or not.  Of course there is still a physical input that could be disabled at some point, but I expect it also logs engine hours.

Actually the ECM's (electronic control modules = onboard computers) in a modern car or truck are quite crude by the standards of modern PC technology.......there are usually at least three, one for engine emissions control and timing, mixture, and performance.  A second is called the ""body ECM", which controls such items as power window position, electronic wiper, headlight,and climate controls.  The third device controls safety systems, like antilock brakes, airbags, electronic stability control, etc.

The engine ECM is the only one that records mileage (or even has an input for mileage) or engine hours, and it is easily reprogrammed with a laptop and a simple software routine that can "flash" the EPROM where such storage occurs, replacing the existant values with anything that you choose.  I've done it numerous times on out-of-warranty vehicles to enhance performance and fuel economy, particularly diesels.  I've never changed the mileage, but it comes up on the parameters that can be changed every time.

Any "variable recorded input" to a chipset can be changed by the proper access software.  All this will do is create another vast "black market" for some enterprising soul to capitalize upon.  

Such a proposal has "zero" chance of implementation, the invasive legal issues aside,  The technical (and cost) hurdles for the entire US vehicle fleet are immeasurable.

Hell, the US government can't keep wikileaks and other hackers out of the Pentagon, CIA, and NSA computers, how do they possibly think they can prevent tampering with a simple unprotected device like a vehicle ECM.......wishing doesn't make it so.

doc

[DumbAss Tanker]

Doc, I completely agree, but 'Stroke of the pen/law of the land,' they can just as easily make tampering with the EPROMs a felony, and/or mandate their replacement with non-erasable ROM chips despite the cost and inefficiency (After all, it'll be the car buyers paying for it and 'It's for the greater good').  A few busts and prosecutions on that will intimidate 95% into compliance IF this crazy shit ever gets to become law in the first place.

[Evil_Conservative]

Let's forget about our own personal cars for a moment and think of rental cars.  If any of you have rented a car at an airport location recently, you will see the ridiculous taxes the companies are forced to make you pay.  Here in Las Vegas, we have an airport between 10-12% (maybe more, but cannot recall off the top of my head), CFC tax for 10%, ON TOP of state taxes.  If this mileage thing were to pass, the rental companies have no choice but to pass this down to you, the consumer.  Now your three day full size rental will equal $300+ instead of just $100.  Not including your loss damage waiver or other optional add-ons.

Whatever.  I hate this administration.

[thundley4]

Let's forget about our own personal cars for a moment and think of rental cars.  If any of you have rented a car at an airport location recently, you will see the ridiculous taxes the companies are forced to make you pay.  Here in Las Vegas, we have an airport between 10-12% (maybe more, but cannot recall off the top of my head), CFC tax for 10%, ON TOP of state taxes.  If this mileage thing were to pass, the rental companies have no choice but to pass this down to you, the consumer.  Now your three day full size rental will equal $300+ instead of just $100.  Not including your loss damage waiver or other optional add-ons.

Whatever.  I hate this administration.

Not only that, but rental companies are already charging $9/gal of gas for the cars.