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groovedaddy (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-13-10 12:22 PMOriginal message Arizona Rethinking Open Range Laws PHOENIX — They have startled the residents of Ahwatukee, a bedroom community in southern Phoenix. They have tramped on lawns and damaged vehicles in Rio Rancho, a neighborhood of tract homes outside Albuquerque. A Border Patrol agent lost his life crashing into one of them near the Mexican border in Texas. Free-range cattle roam widely across the West, protected by centuries-old laws that give them the right of way while grazing and force landowners to fence them out. But as urban sprawl has extended into what used to be seemingly endless pasture land, cow-friendly open range laws are under fresh scrutiny, criticized as anachronistic throwbacks to the Wild West days before Interstate highways and tract homes. “People have been killed in collisions with large cows,†said Daniel Patterson, an Arizona state representative from Tucson who is pushing to scale back the rights given cows and their owners in his state. “We need to get rid of this antiquated law from the 19th century. It’s important for ranchers and other livestock owners to keep their cattle where they belong.†Mr. Patterson’s bill pushing for an end to Arizona’s open range law has encountered resistance from the influential Arizona Cattlemen’s Association and has yet to gain traction. But by introducing it, Mr. Patterson said he had heard from many Arizonans who have had unpleasant bovine encounters.http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/us/12cattle.html?th&e...
RaleighNCDUer (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-13-10 01:07 PMResponse to Original message 2. Wow. And here I thought open range went away at the turn of the last century.
gejohnston (159 posts) Mon Apr-11-11 11:36 PMResponse to Reply #2 11. Nope still the way it is in Wyoming. The idea is that instead of buying land, just pay the BLM a couple of bucks for grazing rights on public land.
happyslug (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-20-10 12:07 AMResponse to Original message 3. centuries-old laws???? The English Common Law rule was that if you had cattle and it caused injury do to being outside a fence, that was the liability of the owner of the cow."Free Range" as that term is used is in invention of the 1840s, less then 170 years ago. 170 is a lot of years, but it is NOT "centuries-old" at best it is a "couple of Centuries" old. In the 1840s, as the American people moved into the Prairies, American found themselves in areas with few trees. No trees limited ability to fence in cattle. The Iowa Supreme Court acknowledge this about 1841, when it ruled that the Common Law Rule as to Fencing of cattle did NOT apply to Iowa do to the lack of trees. America had by the 1840s over 200 years of building fences in the United States. Locust was used as fence posts, once dry will last for 50 plus years as a post in the ground (To this day I do NOT want to say "Locust" when in see a Locust Tree, but to call it what my father always called it a "Locust post" tree, i.e. even when not cut down, you knew what they were goo for). American Locust trees are so good as being posts, that they were imported into Europe by the 1700s to use as post. Locust is not an invasive tree in Europe and other places that imported them to use as fence posts.Now for the actually fence rails, that was Chestnut. Until the Chestnut blight hit America (That that is post 1900), Chestnut was what you used for fence rails. The main reason for this was Chestnut could take a lot of abuse AND was easy to split (My father always joked about Abe Lincoln and Lincoln's rail spitting day, he could match old Abe, if all my father had to split was Chestnut). My Father came of age as the Chestnut Blight hit Pennsylvania and Maryland in the 1930s, so he had Chestnut to split and regretting them disappearing. Anyway, Iowa had a problem, few Locust or Chestnut (and any other) trees. Thus the change in the law. My comment is 170 years is NOT Centuries.
Tumbulu (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-28-10 12:23 AMResponse to Original message 4. In western Arizona it is unbelievable the cattle owners just let the cattle roam everywhere, they don't provide food or water for them- I consider it criminal negligence. And land owners have to fence the cattle out and watch them get very skinny and thirsty.I hope the open range laws are changed soon.
lepus (312 posts) Sun Nov-14-10 11:53 AMResponse to Reply #4 5. Nothing stops a landowner from fencing in his own property in open range areas. The only thing is that the onus is on the landowner to fence his property to keep cattle out.How fast was that game ranger going in an open range area that he was killed by hitting a cow? I would imagine too fast for the conditions. There are still open range areas where I live. No problems with them even after a hundred years or so of statehood. Your argument is that both the people that run their cattle open range and those that fence theirs in are negligent. You do not get to blow hot and cold in the same breath.Thing to remember folks, most of the open range areas are not heavily habitated. The problem is that people not used to it are moving to those areas and finding situations and laws that they are not used to. If your neighbors cows start munching on your front yard, put up a cattle guard and some fencing. Don't like it, Don't move into an area where it's legal to let cows run free.
Kali (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-17-10 10:32 PMNOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE BITTER OLD VERMONTESE CALI PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #4 8. maybe look up the word "range"
newfie11 (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-15-10 08:14 AMResponse to Original message 7. I spent 15 years living in open range area of the SD Black Hills Ranchers pay for the use of open range. It is not free. For 15 years I opened and closed gates on my road, during snow, hail, rain, mud, etc. It is a way of life and it was there before I moved there, I knew that. My point is why would anyone move to an area with open range and then bitch about it. Ya knew it was there long before you bought the place.
Kali (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-17-10 10:35 PMNOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE BITTER OLD VERMONTESE CALI PRIMITIVEResponse to Original message 9. wish we could push for an end to idiots moving to the country and expecting urban rules and amenities
gejohnston (159 posts) Mon Apr-11-11 11:41 PMResponse to Reply #9 12. better yet send them back to NY and Ohio where they can learn to love their grandkids more than they hate snow and leave us alone. What I always hated is when they show up and freak out about the brown people that were here before we (Anglos) were. It is like they slept through that part of American History class.
Don't have to travel real far around these parts before you come across a sign that says "Unfenced Road - Beware of stock".That is why we fit big steel things to the front of vehicles that frequent such places.
I got one of those on my truck. I call it a "Bambi Basher".
Heh. I refer to the one on my truck as a 'roo bouncer.
