Author Topic: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it  (Read 3992 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Smarter than us.

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TheBigotBasher (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:43 PM
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If they want cuts give them cuts - an excellent idea from Daily Kos.   Updated at 9:43 PM
   
**** the Tea Party Terrorists, almost literally

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Suggest to the House membership that no Sate can get more back from the Federal coffers more than it contributes to the Federal coffers.

Take their agenda and put it to use on them, for a damn change...

...then watch the Republican House membership (the ones with functioning gray matter, anyway), especially from the South & West, turn green; though it won't be from envy...

At this point in time, I've little faith in any reasonable discussion of the Federal budget, so I'll go for political "gamesmanship" which is one big "F-U, teabagger freaks!" Cut off the "welfare" to the majority Repugnant Red "welfare" States and see how they enjoy having their own "austerity philosophy" shoved right up their collective asses.

Let those legislators go home and explain their support for austerity while cutting the heart out of their own States.

I'm so done giving a rat's patoot about being reasonable and adult.

From this
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/09/965119/-We-nee...

If we get nothing does that mean we get to opt out of paying into the federal kitty as well?

I think we can deal.

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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:51 PM
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2. I am all for ending ALL subsidies to the teabagging mafia.

And those would be...?

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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:52 PM
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3. Great idea, let's slash benefits to all house districts represented by republicans nt

Application of the law based on political affiliation.



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The Magistrate (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:53 PM
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4. A Thing Of Beauty, That, Sir
   
It would ruin the states of the south and west where Republicans dominate.

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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:57 PM
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7. Exactly. And states like California, Illinois, Washington would solve
   
their budget deficits within two years while maintaining services to the poor people of their states.

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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:55 PM
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5. I totally agree. No state should get back more that 100% of federal
   
taxes in benefits. If said states have government facilities, those facilities should be the first closed under budget cutting until that amount the state gets back from the Feds is 100% or less of federal taxes paid. Democrats must put riders into bills when republicans stuff in riders like aid cuts to the poor or elimination of PP, OSHA or the EPA. Democrats must attach the riders such that if one rider stays in the bill, all stay in the bill. It is time to fight fire with fire. Democrats mostly represent blue states, with precious few from red states. Blue states are federal tax donors by a large margin. The reddest red states are big tax beggars, it is time to call the bluff of representatives from those states. And while democrats are at it, attach riders that dictate that every state must get back a minimum of 80% of what it pays in federal taxes, with the past condition that no state gets back more than 100%.

If you get back the amount you put in why send it to DC in the first place?

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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 10:02 PM
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8. They need to cut the $64 billion in subsidies that the oil companies get. n/t

You could allow them to produce their own income or is this one of those asinine "anything less than 110% marginal tax rate = subsidy" arguments?

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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 10:08 PM
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9. Don't suggest. Attach riders to bills and keep attaching the riders
   
to bills. If republicans want to kill housing for the poor in Illinois and California, why shouldn't a representative from one of those states attach first a rider that says no state gets back less that 80% of what it pays in federal taxes, and second, no state gets more that 100% of what it pays in federal taxes back from the Feds. Attach riders to bills to close federal government offices and military bases in states that are getting more than 100% benefit until that benefit drops to 100% or less. If democrats do not start attaching riders to bills and leaving that to republicans, democrats can expect to fight the PP funding and affordable housing battles every budget cycle. Where is Nancy Pelosi on this issue? At every mention of SS cuts, Pelosi goes ballistic, she should know as leader of House democrats that red state, teabagging voters collect the overwhelming majority of SS funds. Yet Pelosi reflexively fights to protect SS, even as the protection she provides ends up coming back to screw the democratic party and wealthy, mostly progressive and educated states like hers.

Why not close welfare offices? Why the military which actually is constitutionally mandated?

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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 10:14 PM
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10. What? and make them start taxing those foreign auto makers they gave all that free land to? nt

How dare they encourage high-wage employment on the backs of the common man!

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indy legend (382 posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 10:16 PM
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11. These are all excellent Ideas but that would require the dems
   
we elected to grow the spine or the sack we've been waiting to see for two and a half years now and..........well good luck with that. A boot on the throat of these right wing mother ****ers would have finished them for good but we had to "compromise" and "reach across the aisle" and here we are with the mother ****ers who have been doing their damnedest to destroy this country since 1980 back to setting the agenda with no end to their trail of misery,stupidity and destruction in site and we have no one but the gutless leadership we gave an unprecedented majority to work with 2 and a half years ago for it, and their unprecedented ability to piss away a golden opportunity to move us forward. An opportunity I fear I will not yet see again in my lifetime.
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Thanks for the ****ing change
.

Change your diaper...



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Offline Freeper

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2011, 09:59:56 PM »
I have a better idea. How about you can't get a tax refund in excess of the amount that you actually paid in.
I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2011, 10:06:43 PM »
I have a better idea. How about you can't get a tax refund in excess of the amount that you actually paid in.

I'd add a constitutional amendment forbidding anyone who draws public money as a federal employee, contractor or entitlement beneficiary be stripped of their right to vote. Only those receiving a payment for compensation under eminent domain, legal settlement or as relief during a declared emergency would be exempt.

Yes, this includes the military out of principle.

No more politicians using subsidies to buy votes.
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Offline docstew

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2011, 10:18:44 PM »
I'd add a constitutional amendment forbidding anyone who draws public money as a federal employee, contractor or entitlement beneficiary be stripped of their right to vote. Only those receiving a payment for compensation under eminent domain, legal settlement or as relief during a declared emergency would be exempt.

Yes, this includes the military out of principle.

No more politicians using subsidies to buy votes.

Does this include retired military receiving a pension?  And if so, why do you want D majorities?

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2011, 10:46:34 PM »
Does this include retired military receiving a pension?  And if so, why do you want D majorities?
I s'pose we might make an exception for those who earned it but obviously the intent is to break the cycle.
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Offline An Ordinary American

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2011, 10:58:40 PM »
I s'pose we might make an exception for those who earned it but obviously the intent is to break the cycle.

Just curious, but which branch of the military did you serve in, where, and for how long?

Not sure about you, but I didn't serve with anyone who would be willing to forego their right to vote simply because they drew a paycheck for putting their ass on the line while wearing the nation's uniform.

Maybe I'm just older than you and that was/is my generation of vets--but then again, the young men and women at our VFW who returned from Iraq and Afghanistan feel the same way.

How about running this past the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion? You know, see if you can drum up a little support. . .

--AOA

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 06:31:32 AM »
I'd add a constitutional amendment forbidding anyone who draws public money as a federal employee, contractor or entitlement beneficiary be stripped of their right to vote. Only those receiving a payment for compensation under eminent domain, legal settlement or as relief during a declared emergency would be exempt.

Yes, this includes the military out of principle.

No more politicians using subsidies to buy votes.

 :urmeds:

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2011, 07:44:59 AM »
I'd add a constitutional amendment forbidding anyone who draws public money as a federal employee, contractor or entitlement beneficiary be stripped of their right to vote. Only those receiving a payment for compensation under eminent domain, legal settlement or as relief during a declared emergency would be exempt.

Yes, this includes the military out of principle.

No more politicians using subsidies to buy votes.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I'd rather have one that said if you do not pay income taxes (SS exempted) and receive welfare, you can't vote.  I believe we got in this mess in the first place by allowing politicians to buy votes from people that can vote themselves a "pay" increase.

If I recall correctly, the Founding Fathers limited voting privileges in the beginning to people that actually owned property.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2011, 08:44:13 AM »
I have a better idea. How about you can't get a tax refund in excess of the amount that you actually paid in.


This reminds me of the fatuousness of the Dems in Nebraska during the stimulus controversy.

All of the (R) congressional delegation from Nebraska, and the (R) governor and (R) state legislature, had qualms about spending the money, and were against it.

The stimulus passed however, and suddenly all these (R)s were trying to grab as much of it as possible.

The Dems in Nebraska said that had been hypocritical.

It was no such thing.

If the money hadn't been appropriated, the (R)s in Nebraska would've been perfectly happy.

But the money was appropriated, and there wasn't a damned thing the (R)s in Nebraska could do about it.

If one can't do something about something, one might as well make the best of the situation.
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Offline Vagabond

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 08:45:04 AM »
I wouldn't go quite that far, but I'd rather have one that said if you do not pay income taxes (SS exempted) and receive welfare, you can't vote.  I believe we got in this mess in the first place by allowing politicians to buy votes from people that can vote themselves a "pay" increase.

If I recall correctly, the Founding Fathers limited voting privileges in the beginning to people that actually owned property.

That's pretty much my position.  You should have some skin in the game if you want to vote.  People drawing subsistence welfare have nothing to lose but a chance to get "paid more" by electing the properly corrupt politicians.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2011, 08:47:16 AM »
Not sure about you, but I didn't serve with anyone who would be willing to forego their right to vote simply because they drew a paycheck for putting their ass on the line while wearing the nation's uniform.

During the whole fiasco in WI over public employee unions you are probably familiar with the fact that the PEUs started recall petitions against WI GOP lawmakers.

OK, such is their right.

However, reports have come that many good people wanted to start recall petitions against the democrat fleebaggers only to have the petitions torn from their hands and ripped up...

...as the police looked on and did nothing even though a felony was being committed in their presence.

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/03/protesters-destroy-recall-petitions.html

Police also put their asses on the line but when it came down to it they violated everything they stood for against the very people from whom they draw their authority. The plain truth is you don't need a union for a strike/mutiny/sedition.

I knew as I was writing my original comment that I would touch off a firestorm and it is certainly not out of disrespect to the military. I'm looking at places like Greece where so many people make their living or have it subsidized by the government that any effort to bring sanity is stillborn because more people take than pay-in and those takers vote in the majority.

It is the same here is the US where government employees outnumber privately-employed manufacturing-section workers:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html

Add to that the number of people getting government assistance.

Government dependence has always been the key to the liberal agenda because the libs know just as soon they get enough people onto the dole to have political majorities they will secure their power base forever. We cannot pretend they can't do because we are fighting against time to strangle ObamaCare before it goes into full implementation for that very reason.

The process we are fighting against isn't spending. That'd be like saying the GWoT is about fighting suicide vests. We are fighting spending because dems use that spending to hook people into voting to protect the dem-championed programs that spend money on the people.

If, after the WI debacle is done, you ask a conservative, "would you, in the name of liberty, be willing to do whatever it takes to sever the mechanisms by which public employees use their political power to demand more money and more power from taxpayers?" the answer would be a resounding. "YES?" Of course the liberals will instantly retort, "Well, what about your sacred cows?"

Just because our cows have guns doesn't mean we exempt them because the few armed liberal cows we saw wasted no time in committing acts of passive sedition and such conversations were very much in the minds of the founders.

Believe me when I say I'm really just halfheartedly spit-balling and none of it is born out of dislike or distrust of the military. But we are being confronted with some scary shit that is undermining every principle of the government provided to us; namely, consent of the governed. The purpose of the US military is not to fight wars it is supposed to  be the last--and most powerful--resort to preserving the freedoms of the American people. Not landing fat contracts for select congressional districts or voting 4:1 for one party over another. If ANYTHING interferes with the preservation of liberty than it must removed (witness debates on coed barracks and women in combat). If anything could be used to corrupt an institution and turn it into a vehicle of tyranny all the more so.

So let's put everything on the table and debate it in turn, free of emotion and sentiment.
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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2011, 10:29:56 AM »
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. A Thing Of Beauty, That, Sir
   
It would ruin the states of the south and west where Republicans dominate.

Almost sounds like the magistrate is itching for a civil war.



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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Apr-09-11 09:57 PM
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7. Exactly. And states like California, Illinois, Washington would solve
   
their budget deficits within two years while maintaining services to the poor people of their states.
Have you been following the budget woes in California?  We have a 36 billion $$ deficit with no relief in sight, largely due the free wheeling spending democratic majority if both the state Assembly and Senate and the Federal mandate to feed, house, educate and provide healthcare for the millions of illegal aliens living here that the democrats treat better than the legal US Citizens.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2011, 10:47:29 AM »
Have you been following the budget woes in California?  We have a 36 billion $$ deficit with no relief in sight, largely due the free wheeling spending democratic majority if both the state Assembly and Senate and the Federal mandate to feed, house, educate and provide healthcare for the millions of illegal aliens living here that the democrats treat better than the legal US Citizens.

Only because all those big-hearted West Coast liberals are financially propping-up those knuckle-dragging southerners!</DU>
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 12:06:33 PM »
Almost sounds like the magistrate is itching for a civil war.

How's that saying go again?

Be very careful what you wish for--sometimes, you get it.

He'd better not be wishing for that.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 03:36:17 PM »
I'd add a constitutional amendment forbidding anyone who draws public money as a federal employee, contractor or entitlement beneficiary be stripped of their right to vote. Only those receiving a payment for compensation under eminent domain, legal settlement or as relief during a declared emergency would be exempt.

Yes, this includes the military out of principle.

No more politicians using subsidies to buy votes.

I'm afraid this is one of the stupider ideas you've ever committed to print, you really need to have your brainfart filter adjusted.  Any idea that this is a conflict of interest could and should be extended to anyone whose livelihood is affected by government action, which is essentially everyone. 




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That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2011, 09:24:12 PM »
I'm afraid this is one of the stupider ideas you've ever committed to print, you really need to have your brainfart filter adjusted.  Any idea that this is a conflict of interest could and should be extended to anyone whose livelihood is affected by government action, which is essentially everyone.  /quote]

Oh come on!

I've had plenty of dumb ideas, why single this one out?

Seriously though, my follow-on comment shows A) my rationale and B) it wasn't a serious suggestion to begin with.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2011, 11:41:38 PM »
He who lives by hyperbole, dies by hyperbole, my friend.

 :-)
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Offline Rebel

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2011, 02:34:43 PM »
I don't look at my paycheck as a contractor, or as a soldier in the past, as a handout or an entitlement and I damn sure don't think I should be denied my rights. My paycheck is compensation for a service I provide through my job. Wanna make the case about welfare recipients, fine. The point made in this thread is completely irrational. You wouldn't find a person in the damn country that would work in defense of this nation if you removed their right to determine how it's ran. Yeah, real bright idea.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2011, 02:43:54 PM »
I don't look at my paycheck as a contractor, or as a soldier in the past, as a handout or an entitlement and I damn sure don't think I should be denied my rights. My paycheck is compensation for a service I provide through my job. Wanna make the case about welfare recipients, fine. The point made in this thread is completely irrational. You wouldn't find a person in the damn country that would work in defense of this nation if you removed their right to determine how it's ran. Yeah, real bright idea.

1. Calm down. I have twice now (thrice with this post) said my original reply was not serious, merely spit-balling in extremis.

2. Lots of people who draw a gov't check earn it, i.e. cops and teachers. But just because someone works for the money provided them doesn't mean they won't be larded-up with pay and benes to become tools for protecting incumbents. And as I stated some of them will even partake in dereliction/sedition to that end.

That officers charged with enforcing the law should stand idle while violent felonies in violation of election law are committed in their presence is something that should chill the blood of all Americans. Whatever it take to break that confluence of power must be put into effect.

THAT is what I'm driving at.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2011, 02:47:43 PM »
I'm still down with stripping welfare recipients of the right to vote. If you offer nothing, but are getting compensation from the government, you shouldn't vote. This doesn't include retirees due to that being a benefit due to past work.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2011, 02:54:36 PM »
I'm still down with stripping welfare recipients of the right to vote. If you offer nothing, but are getting compensation from the government, you shouldn't vote. This doesn't include retirees due to that being a benefit due to past work.
I'd definitely support that. It would be akin the original COTUS where only land owners were given a vote.

It sounds draconian but it wasn't about protecting rich, white men it was because the founders had studied history and knew those on the public dole would plunder the treasury if permitted and elected officials would be happy to allow them.

PEUs have brought in a vile and insidious infection into public policy and it must be sanitized back.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline An Ordinary American

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2011, 10:43:09 PM »
I've long been in favor of having to produce at the polls:

1. Last year's tax return, or

2. Student ID card that shows you're presently enrolled full-time in college, or

3. Proof of retirement, military ID, badge & credentials, etc

in order to vote.

In other words, if you're not contributing SOMETHING to this country, then you have zero say in how it's being run.

I still remember when Al Gore and the Dems went to court in 2000 to get the overseas military vote thrown out. I took every damned citation and medal, and everything I had left from my military service and threw it in the garbage. He and the other liberals were more interested in the votes of non-achievers and societal leeches than those who were sacrificing all and having to vote from thousands of miles away in order to keep us secure and safe.

I have a problem with that. A huge one. And this imbecilic imposter we have now is a thousand times worse than Al Gore.

--AOA

Offline delilahmused

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2011, 04:54:26 AM »
I s'pose we might make an exception for those who earned it but obviously the intent is to break the cycle.

I'd settle for banning anyone who earns a paycheck courtesy of the US taxpayer from joining a union. And the entire government pay scale should be the same as that of the military. And no representative, senator, president, czar, or cabinet member will earn more than a private since the military are about the only branch of the government who actually know what government SERVICE means.

Cindie
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Offline docstew

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2011, 09:11:26 AM »
I'd settle for banning anyone who earns a paycheck courtesy of the US taxpayer from joining a union. And the entire government pay scale should be the same as that of the military. And no representative, senator, president, czar, or cabinet member will earn more than a private since the military are about the only branch of the government who actually know what government SERVICE means.

Cindie

I don't know about congressmembers getting paid what a private makes, but I could see them getting paid at the same level as a captain (army, not navy), with staff getting msg or sfc pay, depending on seniority.

Offline An Ordinary American

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Re: We survive only because our benevolent liberal benefactors allow it
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2011, 12:17:01 PM »
I'd settle for banning anyone who earns a paycheck courtesy of the US taxpayer from joining a union. And the entire government pay scale should be the same as that of the military. And no representative, senator, president, czar, or cabinet member will earn more than a private since the military are about the only branch of the government who actually know what government SERVICE means.

Cindie

Good sentiments, but not really applicable.

When I was in the service, my room and board were taken care of, as was health care, transportation to and from various missions, etc. Clothing was provided as was the equipment I needed. Thus, the military only needed to pay me a pittance because just about every real need I had (other than beer) was taken care of.

Not so in the civilian/GS side of the government employment coin.

If you make it so that only the rich can afford work for the government, guess what's going to happen and who is going to get looked after first and foremost?

What I am for is term limits. I used to be adamantly opposed to them because we have voter registration cards that provide for whatever term limits we may need.

But as it stands today, incumbents have an almost insurmountable advantage over all opponents when it comes to re-election.

I'm in favor of one-term offices, and that's it. You can serve once, and that's all. Back home to live with the laws and BS you passed or back home to prosper and enjoy American because of the sensible and pro-America legislation you passed.

No exemptions for elected officials. No pensions. No benefits except for while you are in your two-year or six-year employ of our nation. Presidents can be elected to two terms, but cabinet members can only serve one four-year term.

Pipe dream, I realize. . .

--AOA