We all live in a fascist submarine

[Mr Mannn]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=793602&mesg_id=793602
Now this is a massive bonfire at the Dump. Primitives are dancing all around in glee.

--There are a few heretics, but they have 1000 posts, so they are safe more or less.---

There is no freedom. The mere existence of Corporations is proof that we live in a fascist state. Employing millions maters not…This is PURE communist propaganda, and its like drugs to the primitives.
Please note who gives the very first quote.

Time for change  (1000+ posts)           Fri Apr-01-11 10:31 PM
Original message
Fascism/Corporatism in the United States Today

Perhaps the greatest threat to freedom and democracy in the world today comes from the formation of the unholy alliances between government and business. This is not a new phenomenon. It used to be called fascism… The outward appearances of the democratic process are observed, but the powers of the state are diverted to the benefit of private interests. – George Soros
---Blah Blah Blah. This OP goes on for pages and pages
Definition of fascism
The Fascism that we fought against is often defined by its warning signs, which include:

1. Powerful and continuing nationalism; 2. Disdain for human rights; 3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause; 4. Supremacy of the military; 5. Rampant sexism; 6. Controlled mass media; 7. Obsession with national security; 8. Interweaving of religion with government; 9. The combining of government and corporate power (corporatism); 10. Suppression of labor; 11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts; 12. Obsession with crime and punishment; 13. Rampant cronyism and corruption, and; 14. Fraudulent elections.

These warning signs of fascism can be seen as combining two major groups of characteristics: corporatism (# 9) and scapegoating alleged enemies as a unifying cause (# 3). Those two characteristics represent the core of fascism. The other traits follow as a consequence of those core characteristics.

Nationalism (# 1) is the ultimate unifying cause that fascists aim to produce. The “nation” takes precedence over all else, and anyone who doesn’t fall in line is an “enemy” of the state. Disdain for human rights (# 2) follows, as the “enemy” is dehumanized, thus rationalizing its brutal repression. Disdain for intellectuals (# 11) is necessary because they are among the most likely to speak out against the state – and they make a convenient enemy.

Corporatism requires corruption (# 13) because governments are supposed to serve their people; therefore, when they decide to serve corporate power instead, that by definition constitutes corruption. Suppression of labor (# 10) is necessary for the corporatist state because labor is the natural enemy of excessive corporate power.

---Blah blah blah---Click on the link at the top….this just goes on and on.

dontcallmebob (7 posts)        Sat Apr-02-11 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #4

8. About time someone tell what fascism really is
    like most things americans know very little about the terms they use and the information they spew. both those on the right and left need to understand what fascism really is - a partnership between government and corporations. the means by which that is accomplished and maintained politically and socially can vary. one does not have to be a nazi to recognize fascism and its growth in this country since the reagan years.

SDuderstadt  (1000+ posts)        Sat Apr-02-11 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #8

15. Umm, bob...
    if we have fascism, where's the brutal suppression of the opposition?

Time for change  (1000+ posts)           Sat Apr-02-11 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #15

20. "Where's the brutal suppression of the opposition?"
    
1. Any government would rather accomplish its aims without brutal suppression if it can. As long as they can do that, that won't resort to brutal suppression.

2. Brutal suppression is especially difficult in the US, since Americans take much pride in the fact that brutal suppression here is much less than in many other countries -- at least internally it is. Externally is another story, but most Americans don't pay much attention to that. The hundreds of thousands or millions of Iraqis who died as a result of our invasion and occupation, for example, is something that is hardly talked about here, and most Americans don't pay much attention to that kind of thing.

3. Nevertheless, brutality is used when necessary.

3A. Consider the millions of Americans who have been evicted from their homes in recent years. You think that isn't a brutal process? When it can be done without violence, it is. When violence is necessary it is used.

3B. For special cases -- people who "cross the line" -- like Bradley Manning, special measures are used. Most Americans don't know what he's undergoing. Yet, most people who might be contemplating doing something similar to what he did DO know what's happening to him. That's the perfect situation for those who want to maintain secrecy in our country.

3C. Consider Guantanamo Bay and our system of secrect prisons throughout the world. People are kept indefinitely, without charges, in inhumane conditions, and many are still tortured. You think that doesn't put a chill on anyone contemplating crossing the line?

3D. Consider Paul Wellstone -- an especially bothersome thorn for the corporatocracy. They tried very hard to defeat him politically. But about two weeks before the 2002 election it became clear that they wouldn't be able to do that.

3E. Consider the plan developed during the Bush II administration for widespread detention camps, known as “Endgame”:
In August (2002)… (Attorney General) Ashcroft disclosed a plan that “would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatant”…

After widespread protest from legal scholars, the plan for military detention camps was not discussed publicly further. It seems clear, however, that the camps exist and that… the authority already exists for them to be used… On February 6, 2007, homeland security secretary Michael Chertoff announced… more than $400 million to add sixty-seven hundred additional detention beds. Both the contract and the budget allocation were in partial fulfillment of an ambitious ten-year Homeland Security strategic plan, code-named Endgame, authorized in 2003.

I'm not sure of the status of this plan as of this time.

4. Regarding Rachael Maddow: No, she's not a coward. She knows very well that if she goes too far she'll lose her job, so she pushes things to the limit while being careful not to cross the line. She talks about many of the things that I do in this post. She just doesn't use the word "fascism". That wouldn't be polite, and even if she kept her job she would be widely villified for it.

5. Edited to add: And consider Obama's order making assassination of American citizens legal if they're suspected of "terrorism".

Demeter  (1000+ posts)           Sat Apr-02-11 12:40 AM


6. I'm Afraid the Only Way Out Is Revolution
    The third wave of revolution in this country will have to dethrone and decapitate the multinational Corporations.

Just as the first revolution of 1776 removed hereditary rulers and foreign corporations (East India Tea Co.), and the second of 1862 removed localized slavery but let the multinationals back in (duPont)... (the Civil War was seen by foreign powers as a chance to break up the United States and reclaim their colonies...and very nearly succeeded, too), the third wave will have to remove global conglomerates, which are essentially foreign powers, from operating within our national borders.

We the People will also have to severely limit the power of internal corporations. And we had better expand the Bill of Rights to issues arising from modern technology.

Perhaps a ban on political dynasties wouldn't come amiss, either. Every other generation will have to be banned from public office....or if it gets really ridiculous, only every third or fourth generation can stand.

YellowRubberDuckie  (1000+ posts)           Sat Apr-02-11 10:01 AM


34. The men who died in WW2 apparently died for nothing...
    ....because we are now Fascist. Those brave men willingly gave their lives to protect this country. And now the people who say they are the most patriotic and protectors of freedoms are turning this country into exactly that which those men fought against. It is devastating.

Duckie
theFrankFactor (1000+ posts)           Sat Apr-02-11 11:21 AM
Response to Original message

58. Word is corporate koch's are paying shit heads to spread corporate propaganda on the Internet...   
    Have you seen any evidence? I have.

Nye Bevan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Apr-02-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message

143. I always find it amusing when people debate, openly and freely, on a public message board,
    the question of whether or not we are living under "fascism". Imagine if we had all been having this debate in a coffee house in Berlin in 1937.

Bonobo  (1000+ posts)        Sun Apr-03-11 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #143

159. Sigh. Another person who thinks fascism is an on/off light switch.
    Seriously, do you think that?

If not, you correctly recognize that it is a continuum, right?

Please tell me you recognize that.

Nye Bevan  (1000+ posts)        Sun Apr-03-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #159

161. It is a continuum. Early in the continuum, we would not all get murdered.
    But Skinner would probably receive a visit or two in connection with his operation. Perhaps his taxes would be audited and he would be brought in for questioning regarding some of the posts on his board.

Next step in the continuum might be unexplained kidnappings and beatings. Skinner might end up in the hospital. An anonymous caller would suggest to him that DU be shut down.

Final step in the continuum would be the arrest and execution of everyone who posted here.

So yes, it's a continuum. But it hasn't even started yet.

Bonobo  (1000+ posts)        Sun Apr-03-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #161

163. And I disagree.
    But some people's radar is better attuned to movements, so I will not hold it against you.

What you describe is simply later in the continuum.

[franksolich]

You know, I'm starting to like the crusty old bastard the Nye primitive.

Not a whole lot, but at least a little tiny bit.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Imagine this sort of talk at a conservative site.

My how the DUmbasses would be squealing.

[true_blood]

Demeter  (1000+ posts)           Sat Apr-02-11 12:40 AM
6. I'm Afraid the Only Way Out Is Revolution

Idiot DUmmies love that word, "revolution". What kind of "revolution" are you talking about DUmpkies? Revolution this, revolution that.
SHUT.THE.****.UP.ALREADY.

[GOBUCKS]

Bonobo  (1000+ posts)        Sun Apr-03-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #161
But some people's radar is better attuned to movements, so I will not hold it against you.

I wonder if DUmmy Bonobo realizes that this is the origin of the term "tinfoil hat".
I suspect not.

[miskie]

^5 for the thread title -- now its stuck in my head...

In the town where I was born,
Lived a man-  Mussolini ,
And he told us of his life,
In a fascist submarine,

So we sailed on to the sun,
That looked like Karl R - O - V - E,
And we lived with G Dubya B,
In our fascist submarine,

We all live in a fascist submarine,
 fascist submarine,  fascist submarine,
We all live in a  fascist submarine,
 fascist submarine,  fascist submarine.

And our friends are all aboard,
From the V - R - Dubya - C,

etc..

[DefiantSix]

Idiot DUmmies love that word, "revolution". What kind of "revolution" are you talking about DUmpkies? Revolution this, revolution that.
SHUT.THE.****.UP.ALREADY.

DUmbshits speak constantly of "revolution" because in reality they are the most revolting critters God ever planted on this planet.

[Skul]

Those idiots wouldn't know a facist, even if one snuck up and smacked them with a fagot.

[true_blood]

DUmbshits speak constantly of "revolution" because in reality they are the most revolting critters God ever planted on this planet.

Now that makes sense.

[JohnnyReb]

If Russia had had more revolutionaries like our Dummies, the Czar would still be in business.

[compaqxp]

Idiot DUmmies love that word, "revolution". What kind of "revolution" are you talking about DUmpkies? Revolution this, revolution that.
SHUT.THE.****.UP.ALREADY.

They can only be speaking about one kind, the one that comes in a song!

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78[/youtube]

(I had to post it. Damn the dummies getting songs stuck in my head!   )  

 

Imagine this sort of talk at a conservative site.

There'd be a chance something would get done.

[Airwolf]

Anytime one of you drecks over at the DUmp want to run a business they way you think it should be run, feel free to start one up. I;m sure you'll be swiming in riches in  a week. 

[CC27]

Bonobo  (1000+ posts)        Sun Apr-03-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #161
But some people's radar is better attuned to movements, so I will not hold it against you.

Hi, Dummie. Question, are you bobo's sister who lives in a 1987 Lincoln Town Car?

[jukin]

We're all livin on a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine.

We're all livin on a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine.
.
.
.

[JohnnyReb]

We're all livin on a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine.

We're all livin on a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine, a donk blue submarine.
.
.
.

I thought it was yella.........same as their spine.

[BattleHymn]

Hi, Dummie. Question, are you bobo's sister who lives in a 1987 Lincoln Town Car?

With a name like "Bonobo", a Bonneville came to mind for me. 

[GOBUCKS]

Anytime one of you drecks over at the DUmp want to run a business they way you think it should be run, feel free to start one up. I;m sure you'll be swiming in riches in  a week.

Pie shop prosperity.