Socialism 101

[CactusCarlos]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x753753

Socialism 101.
Posted by white_wolf on Sun Mar-27-11 04:51 PM

    Since a lot of people misunderstand Socialism, I have decided to make a series of threads explaining the system. This one will cover basic definitions and the different ideologies within it. I understand if you disagree with Socialism, this isn't meant so much as to convince people as it is to explain things. The definitions are from dictionary.com, Lenin's quote and the 6th party congress was taken from Wikipedia.

    Socialism: 1. "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole." 2. (in Marxist theory) "the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. These are very basic definitions of socialism."

    Marxism: "the system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, especially the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society."

    Now we get into the more complicated definitions. These next ones are the various tendencies withing socialism, so I will try to explain them a little bit more than just providing dictionary definitions.. I will go into them in depth later, this is simply to provide basic dictionary definitions so people understand what the words mean.

    Leninism: Likely the most well-known form of Marxism. Lenin based his theories on the conditions of Russia in the early 20th century and tried to conceive a path to Russian Socialism. In my mind, it should not have been applied outside of Russia, simply because it was created to address the specif problems of Russia. Here is the dictionary definition: "the modification of Marxism by Lenin stressing that imperialism is the highest form of capitalism." This is not a great definition as it does not explain what is meant by imperialism being the highest form of capitalism. In my mind the Iraq and Afgan wars did lend some credence to his theory, with the massive profits made by groups like Haliburton and Blackwater.
    Puregonzo1188 mentioned organization in regards to Leninism so I feel I should define the key organizational feature of Leninism. Democratic-Centralism. 1. "A Leninist doctrine requiring discussion of issues until a decision is reached by the party. After a decision is made, discussion concerns only planning and execution. This method of decision making directed lower bodies unconditionally to implement the decisions of higher bodies." Lenin described it in his own words like this: "freedom of discussion, unity of action." The sixth Party Congress laid it out in four steps:
    1. That all directing bodies of the Party, from top to bottom, shall be elected;
    2 That Party bodies shall give periodical accounts of their activities to their respective Party organizations;
    3 That there shall be strict Party discipline and the subordination of the minority to the majority;
    4 That all decisions of higher bodies shall be absolutely binding on lower bodies and on all Party members



    Trotskyism: First the direct definition: "the form of communism advocated by Leon Trotsky, based on an immediate, worldwide revolution by the proletariat." Trotsky created his theory of "Permanent Revolution" in which he argued that a capitalist state and a socialist state could not exist peacefully, as a capitalist state would see a socialist state as a threat. Trotsky also wanted what he called "worker's democracy" where all power would be vested in workers councils called "soviets."

    Democratic Socialism: "a form of socialism with a democratic government; the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole -- combined with a democratic government." Personally I don't agree with this definition as in my view Trotskyism supports a democratic government as do most other socialists. The main thing about Democratic Socialism as opposed to Trotskyism or any other form of revolutionary socialism, is the belief that socialism can be achieved through reforms. The revolutionaries will argue that the capitalists will never peacefully give up power.

    There are a few other forms, but I will save them for when I get more in depth, simply because I haven't studied enough of Maoism or Stalinism, or anarchism. Other than than questions on those three, feel free to ask any questions and I'll try to answer.

    Damn it. I forgot to define something very important. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat.
    so here goes: 1.n Marxism, "the dictatorship of the proletariat denotes the transitional socialist State between the capitalist class society and the classless communist society" 2. "The temporary period following the fall of capitalism characterized by a struggle to achieve a classless, stateless and moneyless communist society" As this is rather controversial just by the name I'll explain it a little bit. It does NOT denote what we think of as a dictatorship, because in Marx's time such dictatorships hadn't emerged. He considered capitalism the dictatorship of the bourgeois, so it does not imply a tyrant holding absolute power as some think.

[Ptarmigan]

More Stupidity 101.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Funny how every country that tried Communism DID get an autocrat and an elite class of Party members in the 'Dictatorship of the proletariat' stage, and then somehow never managed to get to the next stage. 

[chitownchica]

If this is the same person I'm thinking of, he's a college student. He said that in a post last week. Someone asked him a question and he said he hasn't studied that yet.

I think he's trying to take over for Nadin.  Only, instead of using Wikipedia as a source, he's using his college prof and text. 

Such scholars over there.

[Ballygrl]

Lots of K & R's for ideologies whose intent is to destroy the human spirit amongst other things, they should be ashamed yet they aren't.

[Vagabond]

On a level playing field, Communism is always outcompeted by capitalism.  That is why communists always do two things in regards to capitalists.  The first is to take everything they can from the capitalists via taxation and regulation.  Second blame the capitalists for the failings of their own system.

The problem is our government is acting like a mafia crypto-socialists these days.  It doesn't just tax and regulate, it's actively extorting money from the businesses and awarding money to favored organizations.  

[franksolich]

Suppose the primitive's going to delve into the different socialisms, such as democratic socialism, industrial socialism, agrarian socialism, Marxist socialism, Leninist socialism, Trotskyist socialism, Maoist socialism,  labor socialism, workers' socialism, left socialism, radical socialism, right socialism, African socialism, Vietnamese socialism, modern socialism, primitive socialism, small-society socialism, large-society socialism, geographic-based socialism, cultural-based socialism, downward-directed socialism, upward-directed socialism, national socialism, international socialism, interplanetary socialism, religion-based socialism, western European socialism, racial socialism, caste-driven socialism, eastern European socialism, corporate socialism, Gandhian socialism, Basque socialism, communistic socialism, Nehruian socialism, Nyerean socialism, anarchistic socialism, collective socialism, communal socialism, partial socialism, rational socialism, inspirational socialism, monastical socialism, socialist pacifism, liberal socialism, &c., &c., &c.?

There's a lot more, but those are only the ones I can think of at the moment.

Socialism with all its multitudes of microscopic arcane--but very divisive--differences makes a very dreary academic exercise.  franksolich knows.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Socialism and Capitalism are economic philosophies, while democracy, oligarchy, autocracy, etc. are the political organizing principles of a country.  There is no reason they have to necessarily have any relationship to each other at all, the Euros are mostly Socialist democracies while the Chinese are more of a Capitalist oligarchy than they are any kind of Socialists these days.  Communism is the giant cluster**** you get when you DO tie the economic principle of a society and its political organizing principle inextricably together.

[Wineslob]

Funny how every country that tried Communism DID get an autocrat and an elite class of Party members in the 'Dictatorship of the proletariat' stage, and then somehow never managed to get to the next stage.  

But, but, but it'll work THIS time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










DUmbass mode off

[jukin]

Whatever you call it, however you define it, the inevitable end is death and misery for those living under it.

Always has been. Always will be.

[Karin]

And everybody except for a handful of kook-fringers knows that, Jukin. 

I just want to say

Here is the dictionary definition: "the modification of Marxism by Lenin stressing that imperialism is the highest form of capitalism." This is not a great definition as it does not explain what is meant by imperialism being the highest form of capitalism.

This is laughably childish writing, it's essay-padding, such as a high school student might do, along with really wide margins, double spacing, and a very nice binder folder. 

[Rebel]

Whatever you call it, however you define it, the inevitable end is death and misery for those living under it.

Always has been. Always will be.

The basic tenets of socialism are:
1. Seduce the populace into accepting the government as the arbitrator of all problems; government from cradle-to-grave
2. Begin delivering on those services to make the citizens dependent
3. Take away the citizens' guns
4. Increase taxes on all services while destroying any free market alternative services
5. Blame the chosen scapegoat for the inability to meet demand for services
6. Have the centralized national police force round up any dissidents


http://www.orthodoxnet.com/news/WhySocialismAlwaysResultsInTyranny.html

[FreeBorn]

I personally have not lived under the red banner but I have known good friends who did, in Poland and in Viet Nam.
I'll keep this as short as possible but it will run on to tell it all. Chin was a 52 year old man when I met him I worked with for two years, '98 to '00. He was a Vietnamese growing up in a rural village. One day the Viet Cong rolled into town -uninvited and at gunpoint- and the first thing they did was gather everybody, about two hundred people in the middle of the village. They grabbed the village elder, the leader by tradition in their agrarian culture and put the old man up to a tree. They slit his gut and tied him to it with his own intestines. That got everybody's attention and then a boss type authority figure commenced with a lot of talk about how a new day was coming and it was to be for the people, with the farmers voting and all that, choosing their leaders but everyone was split up into groups and led away, leaving the village entirely empty.
Chin and his brother were tied at the wrists, along with all other males from the teens to fifties and led away by the V.C. The old men, women and children got marched off in another direction, he never found out where and never saw the rest of his family again. After two weeks of being marched into Laos, to a V.C. bootcamp and begun military training to become V.C. Chin ad his brother managed to escape into the jungle and get away by floating down rivers on logs. They joined the A.R.V.N. and spent the next eight years fighting the V.C. and the N.V.A. The average American soldier's experience in Viet Nam was 13 months, Chin never got any "liberty" and spent eight years in the field in constant combat. He had the scars of bullet wounds, missing fingers and mortar shrapnel you could feel by squeezing his legs to show for it.
There was never any question in his mind about freedom concerning what life was to be under the communists.
Chin and his brother got lucky and survived all of that and got out of Viet Nam on a boat to the Phillipines in 1980.
Another Vietnamese I worked with there was too young to fight in the war but also got out as one of the "boat people" and he too came here with a brother, the rest of his family scattered by war, they too only had each other. His name is Be ("Bay"). His brother, like the Polish guy's father I'll tell you about, didn't stay, he went back. Be's brother now runs a coffee plantation. Be spoke very limited English but that is how he explained his brother's position to me, boss of a coffee plantation. We talked about that, with Chin translating. Not an "owner" but rather a "boss", and subject to higher ups but living by far a much better life than the average worker, "in the club".
Both Be and Chin, and BTW several other Vietnamese guys I worked with there, did I mention this was at a railyard? We were all welders and "carknockers", we repaired and also did complete rebuilds of railroad cars. About 80 employees, of which about 15 Vietnamese. They were the best workers. Period. They could drink anyone under the table. Period. They could kick anyone's ass. Period. They never bitched about the cold (working outdoors in Buffalo winters in the constant wind off Lake Erie two miles away) and weld circles around anyone, bar none.
I am not shitting you, these guys were the most patient and concise welders and diligent about quality, no matter if it was 15 minutes to quitting time on Friday.
They lived in the 'hood, maybe 20 people to an upper in the worst part of town but had absolutely nothing to do with their neighbors. They sent their kids to the best private schools and conservatories. I learned at the time that Buffalo alone had 5,000 Vietnamese expatriates and there are bigger communities in Minnesota and Ohio.
They are very conservative.

The other guy I knew in the service, he was from Poland. He came to the U.S. (Connecticut) on the last plane out from Warsaw to London to Toronto to New York when the Gdansk shipyard shit hit the fan. When he boarded the plane it hadn't happened yet. It took over a decade to get the permits to travel. I asked him why he got them, him and his dad and he didn't know why, everybody applied for them He had a mom there, his parents weren't divorced but she couldn't go. Like the Ronald Reagan joke, and this is no joke, it did actually take ten years to get a phone in their flat in a town south of Warsaw. They couldn't get a car. His dad spent less than a year here and went back because he just couldn't adjust and didn't like it, even in the midst of the solardarnosc happy-doo unfolding on the news every night he went back. This was a decade before the Berlin wall came down so he knew what he was going back to but his wife was there.
"Ski" was my best buddy in the marines, finished high school in Connecticut when he arrived, enlisted in the marines, made Corporal, Honorably discharged, got out and went to Las Vegas to live with his adoptive extended marine corps family, that of his Sergeant when he served at Kaneohe Bay and started life there, getting married. Got called back in Desert Shield and did another year driving Motor T at Camp Pendleton.

Hey, I did say it was going to be short, right? IT WAS, this was the Reader's Digest version   

[true_blood]

Here's what I think of your socialism =