Should same-sex marriage be legal?

[rubliw]

Actually no.....I believe that same-sex "marriage" is not a marriage at all......roughly analogous to a "marriage" between a man and a goat..

That's simply semantics.. in other words, you're talking about the word "marriage", and not the actual things.

And definitions of words are a matter of social convention... we can call relationships between men and men, men and women, and men and goats all marriages if we really want to and agree too.  

But the important part of the debate is about the nature of those things (the things to which the words refer) and our stances towards them, not the words we use to refer to them.

[rich_t]

Ofer...

I suppose "trannies" (not that it's against the rules here, but FYI, that word is deeply offensive and considered hate language by the trans community, Eupher.  Anyway...)

I suppose transgender people shouldn't be permitted to marry, work, have relationships, or leave the house at all, huh?

What makes you think that one can go through life without ever being offended?  

[MP_Sarge]

I don't.


And I was neither asking, nor implying, that Eupher should avoid use of the word.

Simply pointing out that the word is considered offensive, as I've encountered a good many people who were genuinely unaware that the word is offensive, and wouldn't have used the word otherwise.

[Black people don't have the right to go through life without being offended, either, but that doesn't mean it's good etiquette to run about tossing the N-word around.]

It's rather hard to take a stance on this board, that no one should ever curb their speech to avoid offending someone, since the TOS/TOU clearly prohibit racial slurs.

Regardless, if y'all want to use the word tranny, or any other offensive word, rock on.  I was just pointing out that it *is* an offensive word.  What you do with that info is entirely of your own choosing.

[Can I call Jesus a Zombie now?]

[rich_t]

Offensive to whom?

Not I.

I don't find the word faggot, queer, homo or the "N" word offensive either.

[MP_Sarge]

Offensive to whom?

Not I.

I don't find the word faggot, queer, homo or the "N" word offensive either.

And yet, the N word is prohibited on this board.
Perhaps you should be asking the Admins why *they* think people can go through life without being offended.

And I *personally* don't find the words offensive, either [with the exception of the N-word.]
You'll see me use the word faggot, queer, homo, etc, multiple times elsewhere in my post history.

[rich_t]

And yet, the N word is prohibited on this board.
Perhaps you should be asking the Admins why *they* think people can go through life without being offended.

And I *personally* don't find the words offensive, either [with the exception of the N-word.]
You'll see me use the word faggot, queer, homo, etc, multiple times elsewhere in my post history.

I don't care why the Admins have decided to ban/filter the N word.  It's their board, they can make any rules they want to.

Perhaps they are worried about offending some people, but not others.  I don't know, nor do I care.

[MP_Sarge]

Yet you cared about my mention, specifically to Eupher, that a word was offensive.

The board rules restrict your speech.
I said nothing to you, did nothing to restrict your speech, and IN FACT, didn't even SUGGEST to Eupher that he restrict his own speech voluntarily.
I merely commented that a word he used is viewed by the target of that word as offensive and hateful, in case he was unaware- many people are.

Yet, you are wholly disinterested in that which effects you, and overly interested in that which does not.

[rich_t]

Yet you cared about my mention, specifically to Eupher, that a word was offensive.

The point of that was to point out that what might be offensive to one, is not necessarily offensive to another.

I for one refuse to live life walking around on proverbial egg shells and worry about offending others.  Hell, it wasn't all that long ago when the gay merely meant happy.

Now, thanks to the delicate sensibilities of some, that is now considered to be an offensive word.

Screw that.  I refuse to modify my word usage because it might be offensive to a few.

[MP_Sarge]

The point of that was to point out that what might be offensive to one, is not necessarily offensive to another.

I for one refuse to live life walking around on proverbial egg shells and worry about offending others.  Hell, it wasn't all that long ago when the gay merely meant happy.

Now, thanks to the delicate sensibilities of some, that is now considered to be an offensive word.

Screw that.  I refuse to modify my word usage because it might be offensive to a few.

I agree.
I am a transsexual who doesn't find tranny to be an offensive term.
And a gay man who doesn't find faggot, homo, or queer, to be offensive.
My partner, who is black, doesn't find the N-word offensive.

I think at this point we're a bit like two dogs fighting over a bone.  We don't actually disagree- you misinterpret my motives for mentioning to Euph that a word is seen as offensive by a certain group of people, a fact which he may or may not have been aware, especially since I'm a member of that same group, and use the word freely.

Frankly, I think prohibiting the use of racial slurs has a negative effect on society.
I prefer to see racist bigots coming.  If we let them use their hateful language, we have advance warning.

[rich_t]

I agree.
I am a transsexual who doesn't find tranny to be an offensive term.
And a gay man who doesn't find faggot, homo, or queer, to be offensive.
My partner, who is black, doesn't find the N-word offensive.

I think at this point we're a bit like two dogs fighting over a bone.  We don't actually disagree- you misinterpret my motives for mentioning to Euph that a word is seen as offensive by a certain group of people, a fact which he may or may not have been aware, especially since I'm a member of that same group, and use the word freely.

Frankly, I think prohibiting the use of racial slurs has a negative effect on society.
I prefer to see racist bigots coming.  If we let them use their hateful language, we have advance warning.

Oh hell...  Let me complete the hi-jacking of this thread.

You say you are a transexual and a gay man.

Are you a woman trapped in a man's body?  Or are you merely an effeminate male that prefers to look like/dress like a woman?  Or is it something else?

I once worked with a retired Army SMG that dressed like a woman after retirement.  He remained married to his wife of over 20 years.

[MP_Sarge]

I have XX chromosomes, and was assigned female at birth.

I lived 26 years as a woman, to include 8 years of military service as a woman.

I was also married to a man for 7 of those years, who passed away in 2009.

Since leaving the military, I have physically transitioned my body so that it is in line with the male psychology I have had since childhood, and I live as a man.
I am legally and socially male, while retaining XX chromosomes, as obviously they cannot be changed.

If we're accepting the  descriptor of "woman trapped in a man's body" for transwomen, then I would be described as "a man trapped in a woman's body".

I personally reject that terminology as accurate for my experience, since I dispute that physical biology determines gender. [In other words, I dispute that having XX chromosomes automatically makes a person female.]

[rich_t]

I have XX chromosomes, and was assigned female at birth.

I lived 26 years as a woman, to include 8 years of military service as a woman.

I was also married to a man for 7 of those years, who passed away in 2009.

Since leaving the military, I have physically transitioned my body so that it is in line with the male psychology I have had since childhood, and I live as a man.
I am legally and socially male, while retaining XX chromosomes, as obviously they cannot be changed.

If we're accepting the  descriptor of "woman trapped in a man's body" for transwomen, then I would be described as "a man trapped in a woman's body".

I personally reject that terminology as accurate for my experience, since I dispute that physical biology determines gender. [In other words, I dispute that having XX chromosomes automatically makes a person female.]

Just to make sure I understand.  You were born a female and have had your body surgically modified to resemble a male?  And you describe yourself a gay man?

If you are sexually attracted to males, why not just keep the female body you were born with?

[MP_Sarge]

Because my life is about far more than sex.

[Not that it's relevant, but I'm not exclusively attracted to men.]

[rich_t]

Because my life is about far more than sex.

[Not that it's relevant, but I'm not exclusively attracted to men.]

I didn't mean to infer that your life was totally about fornication.  Mine ain't either.

But you referred to yourself as a gay man...  In today's world, that typically indicates a marked preference for same gender sexual activities.   Words mean things.

What part of your psychological make up made you opt for a male body?  What is it that made you want to surgically alter your body to mimic the alternate gender from what you were born with?  Could you have not simply remained a bi-sexual female?

[MP_Sarge]

No, I could not simply have remained in the body I was born with, because that body was always incorrect for me.

I was born with a male brain that requires testosterone to function optimally (as all male brains do), and living in an incorrect body, and an incorrect gender, was not healthy.

Anymore than you could live as a woman if you woke up tomorrow in a woman's body.

[namvet]

I had a faggot go for my nuts in CA years ago. I beat him up really bad. left him laying on the ground with blood pouring out his mouth. don't know if he lived or died. and don't give a ****.

[MP_Sarge]

That's what happens when you sexually assault someone.

Not sure what that has to do with marriage, though.

[Ballygrl]

And yet, the N word is prohibited on this board.
Perhaps you should be asking the Admins why *they* think people can go through life without being offended.

And I *personally* don't find the words offensive, either [with the exception of the N-word.]
You'll see me use the word faggot, queer, homo, etc, multiple times elsewhere in my post history.

I'm confused, I personally wouldn't use the word "tranny" I would refer to them as transexuals or transgender, you said that "tranny" can be seen as offensive, but then you turn around and say you don't find the words that are commonly used purposely to be offensive towards gay people such as the words I quoted above, and you have no problem using them at all?

[Ballygrl]

I have XX chromosomes, and was assigned female at birth.

I lived 26 years as a woman, to include 8 years of military service as a woman.

I was also married to a man for 7 of those years, who passed away in 2009.

Since leaving the military, I have physically transitioned my body so that it is in line with the male psychology I have had since childhood, and I live as a man.
I am legally and socially male, while retaining XX chromosomes, as obviously they cannot be changed.

If we're accepting the  descriptor of "woman trapped in a man's body" for transwomen, then I would be described as "a man trapped in a woman's body".

I personally reject that terminology as accurate for my experience, since I dispute that physical biology determines gender. [In other words, I dispute that having XX chromosomes automatically makes a person female.]

I don't know how you can be considered a "hermaphrodite" if you were born with XX chromosomes. There are different syndromes that can cause people to be "hermaphrodites" but they have chromosomes such as XXY etc.

[Habsfan]

I have XX chromosomes, and was assigned female at birth.

You are female.

[Thor]

I have XX chromosomes, and was assigned female at birth.

...I personally reject that terminology as accurate for my experience, since I dispute that physical biology determines gender. [In other words, I dispute that having XX chromosomes automatically makes a person female.]

Then you're rejecting proven science.

The thing is that you're rejecting God and how He placed you here on Earth. As Jesus said (and Jesus was at least a prophet/ teacher, at a minimum) (paraphrased)  Be hot or cold. If you're in the middle of the road, I will spew you out of my mouth.

[Habsfan]

MP Sarge,

Please accept this advice. God is drawing you to Him.

You can find peace in Him. True peace.

[catsmtrods]

Oh my!
Now I'm sorry I revisited this thread.

[vesta111]

No, I could not simply have remained in the body I was born with, because that body was always incorrect for me.

I was born with a male brain that requires testosterone to function optimally (as all male brains do), and living in an incorrect body, and an incorrect gender, was not healthy.

Anymore than you could live as a woman if you woke up tomorrow in a woman's body.

MP_Sarge it would be a fantasy come true to wake up as a male with all the fixings and say about 25 years old with my past life memory's as a woman intact.

What fun, I would run right out and pee my initials in the snow, Wave that Willey about and experiment with it every which way to Sunday. Problems I would encounter is learning how to man fart, questions about should I shave my beard and checking out my hair line, am I going Bald?   How to dress this new toy, right or left side.

I assume that with my past memory's intact I would be a gay male, Mother would be very happy she allways wanted a boy child.

But then this fantasy comes down to earth when I see pictures of Chere's daughter Chez now that she is a he. For the life of me I cannot understand how the transformation has done Chez any good, he is grotesque.   

Why do woman think that they need to change their sex when today both sexes can work in and do the same thing the other sex is doing.???

The body is just the Vessel to carry about our brain,  one can live as any sex they want without turning the tables on biology, You of all people should know that when you breed two dogs together the result is Puppy's, not Sheep.

Has anyone thought that if one is insecure in their sex it may be the product of less hormones of their designated birth sex.    Why not try extra hormones of estrogen for woman that may have the totestone higher then normal, heck woman at menopause get estrogen so the totestone jump due to lack of estrogen causes the growth of facial hair, disapearing boobs or in men getting man boobs.

Ads on tv tell of "Low T" and a pill that boosts it up.   So perhaps down the line people will not need radical surgery to change their looks, just a pill to inhance their looks.

Oh yes, a question, why do so many Gay men lisp ?????    What does sexual prefference make Brney Frank or Thruman Capote talk like that.????

[Ballygrl]

What fun, I would run right out and pee my initials in the snow, Wave that Willey about and experiment with it every which way to Sunday. Problems I would encounter is learning how to man fart, questions about should I shave my beard and checking out my hair line, am I going Bald?   How to dress this new toy, right or left side.