Author Topic: Should same-sex marriage be legal?  (Read 28154 times)

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Offline gomezuk

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Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« on: March 24, 2011, 01:35:49 PM »
Hi conservativecave,

I'm testing out my new site rgument.com with a really controversial topic: "Same-sex marriages shouldn't be allowed". I've posted here as well as a popular LGBT forum in the hopes of finding people on both sides of the divide. Please help me build a list of the best arguments on either side of this fascinating debate. Thanks!

P.S. If you have any suggestions as to the functionality of the site I'd love to hear them.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 01:38:09 PM »
Why?

Our civilization developed as the greatest in the world without it.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 01:39:17 PM »
Legal or Allowed?  And if you mean allowed, allowed by whom?
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 01:41:56 PM »
NEW CHEW TOY ALERT!!!!!!!!!!           NEW CHEW TOY ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline redwhit

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 02:22:53 PM »
I get the sense that someone is trying to get a homework assignment done for free . . .


Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 02:38:38 PM »
OK, best arguments:

1. As an institution marraige is not an expression of love no matter how doe-eyed the lovers stare at each other. It is about obligations that remain long after the hormonal rush has worn off. If people want expressions of their love they should get matching novelty t-shirts. A marriage is society's way of stating it has recognized a state of affairs that exists uniquely between two people. The remainder of society is forbidden to interfere with them and they are compelled under threat of legal sanction to remain loyal to each other. If either of them breaks the terms of that agreement society will take legal action in favor of the remaining partner.

Granted, no-fault divorce and common law marriage weaken this but that is not an argument for further weakening

In the end society--all societies, universally throughout time--have marriage. It isn't about endorsing love but protect society from indiscriminate behavior.

2. the LBGTWTFBBQ community is not dealing honestly with society. First they deny plain facts: homosexuality can be acculturated as many cultures in history have done so. Obviously Christians etc reject this acculturation and it is their freedom of conscience to do so but the BLT community denies that it even happens to avoid the debate or having to swear against eforts to recruit.

Second, the WWRPD (What Would Ru Paul Do) community claims they are born this way (see the above) then claim they somehow exert free will when they wish to prove their love and devotion vis-a-vis marriage.

Liars should have their social agendas dismissed out of hand.

3. Marriage is not a right as the list of people and things you cannot marry is longer than the list of people you can marry. Marry is a privilege granted by society. This penchant by many (including some conservatives and libertarians) to declare every policy preference a "right" is nonsense. If society is asked if it wishes to litigate divorces amongst gays society has the right to say, "No, we do not wish to burden our courts as we do not recognize anything there that could not be settled in civil court." No further justification is needed.

More than a "right to marry" there is the right to self-governance. Laws passed without the consent of the majority of those they would govern is called tyranny. The C3PO community already has every other right bestowed upon all Americans as protected by the Constitution. They are free to petition, campaign etc but let's not have any nonsense about "right to marry".
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 02:44:55 PM »
Human civilization seems to have gotten along perfectly well without it for about 10,000 years.  Why change now?
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Offline compaqxp

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 02:53:36 PM »
I say you (We have in Canada) make it legal because thats better them hearing people whine about it. Quite honestly my opinion on this can be summer up in one phrase..."I don't give a ****".

We made it legal and it failed to hurt anything, people forgot it was an issue and moved on.


Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 02:54:56 PM »
I say you (We have in Canada) make it legal because thats better them hearing people whine about it...

So if people whine to change it back?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline FreeBorn

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 03:15:10 PM »
Fascinating?

No.

Repugnant?

Most definitely.

 :fuelfire:


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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 03:19:21 PM »
I say the government needs to get out of the marriage business altogether. It's none of their concern.
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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 03:21:20 PM »
I say the government needs to get out of the marriage business altogether. It's none of their concern.

I can go for that.  +1.
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Offline debk

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 03:21:32 PM »
Marriage is between a man and a woman, more often than not, sanctified by the couple's religious choice.  

Same-sex couples should be allowed to have a legal union. Requiring lawyers to split it up, including alimony and child custody, visitation and support. Let them have to jump through the same legal hoops that hetero couples do getting a divorce.  

Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

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Offline dandi

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2011, 03:40:52 PM »
I say you (We have in Canada) make it legal because thats better them hearing people whine about it.

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Offline mamacags

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 03:42:59 PM »
I say you (We have in Canada) make it legal because thats better them hearing people whine about it. Quite honestly my opinion on this can be summer up in one phrase..."I don't give a ****".

We made it legal and it failed to hurt anything, people forgot it was an issue and moved on.



I feel the same way only I am not in Canada.  If homosexuals want to get married, I.DO.NOT.GIVE.A.RAT'S.ASS.
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Offline LC EFA

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »
Let the queers get married. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us.

Of course there must  be  provision that any entity opposed to such things cannot be compelled to perform the service.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2011, 04:57:35 PM »
I would say that most homosexuals love only themselves and sex...and want to form some legal bond so they can avail them selves of the perks and freebies afford married couple...health insurance etc..  But the biggest prize will be the government freebies they will become entitled too SS, survivor benefits, and primary care giver benefits for their HIV infected sex partner.

...and old Snuggle Bunny hit it out of the park....worth a reread.
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Offline MP_Sarge

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2011, 05:07:29 PM »
OK, best arguments:

1. As an institution marraige is not an expression of love no matter how doe-eyed the lovers stare at each other. It is about obligations that remain long after the hormonal rush has worn off. If people want expressions of their love they should get matching novelty t-shirts. A marriage is society's way of stating it has recognized a state of affairs that exists uniquely between two people. The remainder of society is forbidden to interfere with them and they are compelled under threat of legal sanction to remain loyal to each other. If either of them breaks the terms of that agreement society will take legal action in favor of the remaining partner.

Granted, no-fault divorce and common law marriage weaken this but that is not an argument for further weakening
And your argument for restricting this to heterosexual relationships is?

Quote
In the end society--all societies, universally throughout time--have marriage. It isn't about endorsing love but protect society from indiscriminate behavior.
And it's somehow harmful to promote monogamy amongst homosexuals, how?
Quote
2. the LBGTWTFBBQ community is not dealing honestly with society. First they deny plain facts: homosexuality can be acculturated as many cultures in history have done so. Obviously Christians etc reject this acculturation and it is their freedom of conscience to do so but the BLT community denies that it even happens to avoid the debate or having to swear against eforts to recruit.
Can you produce evidence, other than irrelevant historical evidence, to prove that this is taking place?
I can produce evidence that Christians have engaged in genocide.  That historical evidence isn't proof that modern Christians do so. 
Quote
Second, the WWRPD (What Would Ru Paul Do) community claims they are born this way (see the above) then claim they somehow exert free will when they wish to prove their love and devotion vis-a-vis marriage.
What does one have to do with another?  You were born heterosexual, were you not?  Are you then proving that you *choose* to be heterosexual when you make a choice to marry?

I agree- relationships are a choice.  I suppose a homosexual person could make the choice to never have sex, never engage in a relationship, live and die alone.  But why should they?
Quote
Liars should have their social agendas dismissed out of hand.
I agree.

Quote
3. Marriage is not a right as the list of people and things you cannot marry is longer than the list of people you can marry. Marry is a privilege granted by society. This penchant by many (including some conservatives and libertarians) to declare every policy preference a "right" is nonsense. If society is asked if it wishes to litigate divorces amongst gays society has the right to say, "No, we do not wish to burden our courts as we do not recognize anything there that could not be settled in civil court." No further justification is needed.
In our Country, this has been decided by the courts as false, during trials to determine the legality of prohibiting marriages between blacks and whites.
Marriage has been deemed a right.

Quote
More than a "right to marry" there is the right to self-governance. Laws passed without the consent of the majority of those they would govern is called tyranny. The C3PO community already has every other right bestowed upon all Americans as protected by the Constitution. They are free to petition, campaign etc but let's not have any nonsense about "right to marry".
The right for blacks and whites to marry had to be established without the consent of the majority, as the majority opposed the measure.
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Offline MP_Sarge

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 05:08:23 PM »
Human civilization seems to have gotten along perfectly well without it for about 10,000 years.  Why change now?

Marriage in it's current conception hasn't existed for that long.
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Offline MP_Sarge

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 05:08:51 PM »
I say the government needs to get out of the marriage business altogether. It's none of their concern.

Agreed.  H5.
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Offline MP_Sarge

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 05:10:07 PM »
Marriage is between a man and a woman, more often than not, sanctified by the couple's religious choice.  

Same-sex couples should be allowed to have a legal union. Requiring lawyers to split it up, including alimony and child custody, visitation and support. Let them have to jump through the same legal hoops that hetero couples do getting a divorce.  



According to what document?

If you're saying marriage is a religious rite, then why is the government protecting it?  Seems like a blatant violation of the Constitution.
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Offline MP_Sarge

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 05:12:22 PM »
I would say that most homosexuals love only themselves and sex...and want to form some legal bond so they can avail them selves of the perks and freebies afford married couple...health insurance etc..  But the biggest prize will be the government freebies they will become entitled too SS, survivor benefits, and primary care giver benefits for their HIV infected sex partner.

...and old Snuggle Bunny hit it out of the park....worth a reread.

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I didn't love the Country when I served in it combat?
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I don't love my partner in the same way you love yours?
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I don't love many of the same exact things that you love?

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Offline seahorse513

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2011, 05:19:34 PM »
i agree, who gives a shit????
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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2011, 05:45:47 PM »

Marriage has been deemed a right.

Anyone can deem it any way they like.  If it was really a "right", I wouldn't have had to wait until I was 43 and found a willing partner to do it.

People have as much "right" to get married as they do to play professional polo.  Sure, it's possible, and legal, and everything, but you still need the skills and the right equipment.  Including a horse.  No matter how hard you try, you can't play polo with two riders-- or two horses.

Unless, of course, a court "deems" you can.  Then woe betide the bigot who dares to spew such hate speech as "two men and no horse cannot play polo."  Right?
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Offline MP_Sarge

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Re: Should same-sex marriage be legal?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2011, 05:49:46 PM »
Anyone can deem it any way they like.  If it was really a "right", I wouldn't have had to wait until I was 43 and found a willing partner to do it.

People have as much "right" to get married as they do to play professional polo.  Sure, it's possible, and legal, and everything, but you still need the skills and the right equipment.  Including a horse.  No matter how hard you try, you can't play polo with two riders-- or two horses.

Unless, of course, a court "deems" you can.  Then woe betide the bigot who dares to spew such hate speech as "two men and no horse cannot play polo."  Right?

Never heard of water polo, huh?

Voting is a right.  Still can't do it until you're 18, and a citizen.
Just because something involves restrictions, doesn't mean it isn't a right.
I have the right to own a gun.  Provided I can afford one.

Or is gun ownership not a right because the Founding Fathers didn't distribute a firearm to every citizen, and sufficient ammunition on a yearly basis to make gun ownership worthwhile?

Is freedom of the press not a right, because not everyone can afford their own publication?

Is the right to be free in your effects from unreasonable searches and seizures not a right if you're too poor to own a home?
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