I have been ordered not to post

[NHSparky]

Well, this seems as good a place to post this question as any, as I have been puzzling over this the last few days, but was wary of thread jacking.....

If radiation causes cancer, why do we use radiation to treat cancer?  I am assuming there are different types of radiation, like good and bad or something.  But even then, if you are being treated with radiation, you can only have so much, and then you hit your limit.  Wierd.

Actually, cells are more susceptible to radiation during mitosis, which happens most often among 1--developing fetuses, 2--cancer tissue.  Most mutations in DNA actually kill the cell.  Only a comparatively few can develop into cancerous tissue the body cannot fight.

In a nutshell, the radiation is targeted to the tissue, not the entire body, and those cells are killed off.  Chemo works in much the same fashion, killing (hopefully) the cancerous cells before it does enough damage to kill the host.  One of the reasons my dad was taken off chemo--he was so weak already that either the cancer was going to kill him or the chemo would...

[compaqxp]

ZOMG, THERE'S RADIATION IN OUR FOOD!

Seen elsewhere:

I quite like that..

[Revolution]

So the next time you inhale that tobacco plant into your soft tissue lungs or stick that Copenhagen against your soft tissue lips, think of all the radon those plants absorbed. 

 

Thanks a lot, you big jerk! 

[Ptarmigan]

I read all about Zer0 and Moochelle's little partay where Kobe beef was served to many a politician.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1431204/wagyu_steak_gets_obama_in_hot_water.html

I'd like to recommend that Zer0 continue to import and serve all the Kobe beef Moochelle's shrivelled little heart desires.

As for radiation being dangerous, living is dangerous.  We are all gonna die, sooner or later.  Radiation poisoning isn't on my top ten reasons for fear.

Radiation poisoning is a good way of executing scumbags. 

[Janice]

You know it's always made me wonder with all the hype the media was engaged in - where are the reporters? Where are the 'investigative' journalists? Isnt there any curiosity about the unlikeliness of this whole charade?

Fortunately I stopped watching TV many, many moons ago. But I still have to hear this nosh on the radio and the internet radio. But it occurred to me that we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima and unleashed tons of radiation at that time. There was no 'fallout' State side from that. So -- where's the comparison?

Come on folks... this is called 'journalism'? Are you friggin shi**in me?? Isnt there one shred of curiosity within the so called news community? Is it that hard to figure out? Yeah ... thats what I thought.

And as you all have pointed out radiation naturally occurs in our food and is all around us every day. Meanwhile the real tragedy that is the victims from the tsunami and earthquake are ignored. All so that the media can help the  left to weaken Americas ability to produce cheap and safe energy for generations to come.

Its amazing the left can even stand itself. They are so pathetic. They'll get no sympathy from me. They rather enjoy themselves when they p*ss on us. I say, p*ss on them! 2 more elections ...

[vesta111]

You know it's always made me wonder with all the hype the media was engaged in - where are the reporters? Where are the 'investigative' journalists? Isnt there any curiosity about the unlikeliness of this whole charade?

Fortunately I stopped watching TV many, many moons ago. But I still have to hear this nosh on the radio and the internet radio. But it occurred to me that we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima and unleashed tons of radiation at that time. There was no 'fallout' State side from that. So -- where's the comparison?

Come on folks... this is called 'journalism'? Are you friggin shi**in me?? Isnt there one shred of curiosity within the so called news community? Is it that hard to figure out? Yeah ... thats what I thought.

And as you all have pointed out radiation naturally occurs in our food and is all around us every day. Meanwhile the real tragedy that is the victims from the tsunami and earthquake are ignored. All so that the media can help the  left to weaken Americas ability to produce cheap and safe energy for generations to come.

Its amazing the left can even stand itself. They are so pathetic. They'll get no sympathy from me. They rather enjoy themselves when they p*ss on us. I say, p*ss on them! 2 more elections ...

What say you now Janice just a few weeks late?   Have you been watching the news lately ???

Seems the Japanese are questioning their government as to why the risks of radiation was down played, and in some cases the citizens were lied to about the risks.

Today we are told this disaster is on the same scale as Chinobole or even worse.    Every country with nuclear capability's has been put to the test to try to figure out how to stop the contamination, not one has come up with an idea that is fail safe.

Your point about the bombs dropped on Japan 60 years ago did not cause world wide danger from radiation is screwy.   How do we know that, the Geiger counter was a huge big box at that time, no one but the military had a few, today we can pay $50.00 bucks at radio shack to have a personal counter.

We have found all across the country bits and pieces of the isotopes from those very reactors that are in water and else where.  Just a very few but the reactors are still spewing this shit out into the pacific and air.

This was the reason I started this thread, few seemed concerned with the accident at first, all the big heads thought I was an alarmest. Ran me off the board as I was asking questions that they thought they could solve .

Regardless how the accident happened by earthquake or tsunami

--the results have to be dealt with and so far the radio activity keeps going, and the idea of entombment comes up.    Can this be done to stop the leaks, what happens if another quake hits the area and the tombs are cracked open.????

Our FDA and other country's are refusing food shipments from Japan, the off shore fish are now effected. The Pacific is in fact a huge body of water but when one looks into the dead areas in both the Atlantic and Pacific  we had before this happend, this is a full blown Crises, not just for Japan but the intire world.

We need nuclear power must have it, but the people that play with it need to back up and realises this is not a thing we have tamed, we if necessary must take into accountability of what the Beast can and will do if for any reason it get loose.    Then what do we do with the shit it spits out that no one knows how to deal with, the radio reactive waste from plants all over the world. I am sure this plant was storing old fuel on site, what happend to that most huge amount of radio reactive stuff from the storage sites, how was it contained, are there barrels of this stuff sitting in a field somewhere carried there by the Tsunami.???

One does not bring home a Bengal tiger kit and allow it to grow to full size in a chicken wire enclose.
This power is very new to the world, in its infancy and those that believe they know it all and disregard the power they have trapped and keep it in a chicken wire enclose are now to find out the results of what we have unleashed on our planet.

It is seldom the operators of these plants that cause problems, it is the fault of the oversears that do not plan on every conceivable happening to make sure the Beast is still contained.

Kind of drives me nuts that we after 50-60 years still have no idea what to do with the spent fuel, Our top scientists are not doing their job or the government wont let them. Foreign governments are most likely encasing the fuel and throwing it into the sea.    We did that in the 50's but soon stopped.   We use to just chuck it off the fantail of a ship out at sea for quite some time.

[Thor]

And here we have Vesta, talking out of her ass again.  It's true that trash used to be thrown off of the fantail of a ship, but not since Desert Shield (maybe before). Trash is either burned or accumulated and then the accumulated trash is disposed of when a ship reaches port and is moored to the pier (or a trash barge). Nuclear wastes are still stored and disposed of at the appropriate nuclear waste facilities. I seriously doubt that nuclear waste from foreign countries is disposed of at sea. That just doesn't make any sense.   

[NHSparky]

Thanks a lot, you big jerk! 

Who gives a shit about radon--it's a GAS...exhale, inhale, you get the idea.

Now the POLONIUM, that's where the alpha dose from tobacco comes from.

[NHSparky]

And here we have Vesta, talking out of her ass again.  It's true that trash used to be thrown off of the fantail of a ship, but not since Desert Shield (maybe before). Trash is either burned or accumulated and then the accumulated trash is disposed of when a ship reaches port and is moored to the pier (or a trash barge). Nuclear wastes are still stored and disposed of at the appropriate nuclear waste facilities. I seriously doubt that nuclear waste from foreign countries is disposed of at sea. That just doesn't make any sense.   

Hot and cold purified discharges are still done outside the 12-mile limit, but the amount of radioactivity is so friggin small (and yes, required to be calculated and reported) as to be negligible.

Which makes me laugh my ass off that some idiot in a restaurant who buys salmon caught off Alaska is spending big bucks to have the fish tested for contamination.

Oh, and boats still do TDU's.  But it sinks. 

[Thor]

Hot and cold purified discharges are still done outside the 12-mile limit, but the amount of radioactivity is so friggin small (and yes, required to be calculated and reported) as to be negligible.

Which makes me laugh my ass off that some idiot in a restaurant who buys salmon caught off Alaska is spending big bucks to have the fish tested for contamination.

Oh, and boats still do TDU's.  But it sinks. 

Hell, Sparky, the last time I was on a boat was 1991. We were holding trash onboard until we hit port. It got pretty stinky. It may have been because we were usually in sight of land and in the Persian Gulf, which is fairly shallow. I DO remember the days of throwing damned near anything and everything overboard, including aerosol paint cans w/ holes punched in them.

[Crazy Horse]

Hell, Sparky, the last time I was on a boat was 1991. We were holding trash onboard until we hit port. It got pretty stinky. It may have been because we were usually in sight of land and in the Persian Gulf, which is fairly shallow. I DO remember the days of throwing damned near anything and everything overboard, including aerosol paint cans w/ holes punched in them.

Last trip to Hawaii in 1996 we were throwing trash off the fantail

[NHSparky]

Plastics are and were a no-no when I was on the Proteus/Holland.  We didn't have aerosols on the boat, so can't speak to that underway.  You probably held trash on board because of the depth of the water you were in and the proximity to land more than anything else.

[Thor]

Plastics are and were a no-no when I was on the Proteus/Holland.  We didn't have aerosols on the boat, so can't speak to that underway.  You probably held trash on board because of the depth of the water you were in and the proximity to land more than anything else.

Aww come on Sparky!! An aviation component without aerosols?!?!?!?!? How would we perform corrosion control?? Until I went to Recruiting Duty, Zinc Chromate was used as a primer. When I retired, the Navy was using some two -part mix as a primer (trying to get rid of "heavy metals"). What's funny is that the two part primer contained Barium Chromate.... 

[vesta111]

Aww come on Sparky!! An aviation component without aerosols?!?!?!?!? How would we perform corrosion control?? Until I went to Recruiting Duty, Zinc Chromate was used as a primer. When I retired, the Navy was using some two -part mix as a primer (trying to get rid of "heavy metals"). What's funny is that the two part primer contained Barium Chromate.... 

Thor and Sparky, most likely one of you were not even born when we came up with the problem of how to dispose of spent radio active material in the late 50's.   

I remember as a kid my Dad coming home and getting all wound up about what he saw and had to do  to dispose of this garbage.    Some of the crap they downloaded was as he believed placed in 50 gallon metal containers then covered with 100 pounds of cement.     The ASR he was on headed out to the 2-3 hundred mile area and would slide these blocks into the water. 

At that time Dad had been a hard hat diver, rescue, salvage Chief for over 20 years.  He had worked with the experimental gas's oxygen components for the deep dives for years and had some idea of what happens on the floor of the ocean as decades went by.

For him to become upset with the disposal of nuclear waste by who knows how many ships in our millitary----Not to mention the other country's getting into nuclear power and how were they disposing of their waste was a childhood dilemma for me.     Who did I believe, my dad who was on site or the government propaganda.   

This became a question for me for over 50 years, and a year or two before Dad died in the 90's and we were just then finding out about the dead spots in our Oceans and Seas.  I as an ageing daughter asked him if he had any idea why the dead spots were growing and he suggested that something alien had been dumped into the areas years ago and had now become active from the actions of the water and the chemistry coupled with the inter actions of methane pockets and the foreign garbage of all kinds itself.

At no time did he come right out and say that 40 years of disposing of Nuck waste was to blame, but he had a horror of the other country's that may just have been off boarding this stuff in metal drums, no cement casings, no worry about may come down the line in 40-50 years.

In the earl 70's Dad had become an expert on gas mixtures and traveled to Panama City to give a lecture or two to those in the field including the new improved SCUBA diving mixtures.   He himself had never become involved with Scuba, but the mixtures of their tanks were not that different from the hard hat divers mixtures.

So, when my dad gave an openion on anything relating to our oceans and seas I listened up sharp.  It was in the late 60's after a trip to Florida that he was concerned about the reefs, they showed signs of dieing for no reason---What the hell was causing this, natural cycle of life or were they being poisoned with overwhelming chemical changes in the water.

So I stand by watching AS MORE AND MORE KILLER SHIT IS PUMPED INTO THE Pacific ocean, EVEN IF THIS ALL COMES TO A HAULT TOMORROW, WHAT WILL BE THE RESULTS IN 30 YEARS FROM NOW.????

[NHSparky]

Uh, dearest--radioactive material decays.  In a matter of a couple of centuries it's LESS radioactive than the shit which was pulled out of the ground.

And before you get your granny panties in a wad over a couple of centuries, keep in mind 1--how much material we're talking about, 2--how much time a couple hundred years is in earth's history.

Thank you, and now you may go play in traffic.

[debk]

Would just like to mention....that during the Manhattan Project - done in the Secret City, that no one "knew" about - stuff was buried in 50 gallon drums all over the place.

Well, 60+ years later, that stuff has now been seeping out of those drums for years into the land and into the water table.

The "Secret City" now known as Oak Ridge Tn is spending gazillions of federal monies trying to find those drums and properly dispose of them.

Though with the high rate of a variety of cancers in people all over the area, deer with 3 horns, fish with 3 eyes....it's a bit late for damage control....

[VelvetElvis]

Everyone knows Mr. Potato Head.

And what about Grimace, the peculiar purple potato who hawks the consumption of his own kind for McDonalds's?

[dutch508]

Would just like to mention....that during the Manhattan Project - done in the Secret City, that no one "knew" about - stuff was buried in 50 gallon drums all over the place.

Well, 60+ years later, that stuff has now been seeping out of those drums for years into the land and into the water table.

The "Secret City" now known as Oak Ridge Tn is spending gazillions of federal monies trying to find those drums and properly dispose of them.

Though with the high rate of a variety of cancers in people all over the area, deer with 3 horns, fish with 3 eyes....it's a bit late for damage control....

And how can this be?
Vesta debk IS the Larry L Burke-i-rach...

[debk]

And how can this be?

If you are asking about Oak Ridge...

Site Background
The Oak Ridge Reservation (ORR) site, a U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) facility, covers nearly 35,000 acres and is located within and adjacent to the corporate limits of the City of Oak Ridge, Tennessee. The site contains hundreds contaminated areas on the ORR and contaminated surface water and sediment outside the ORR boundary,including the Poplar Creek, the Clinch River, and lower Watts Bar Reservoir of the Tennessee River.

The site consists of three large industrial production facilities constructed as part of the World War II-era Manhattan Project: the Oak Ridge National Laboratory (formerly known as the X-10 Site), a research facility that includes nuclear reactors and ongoing energy, chemical, and biological programs; the former K-25 Site, now known as the East Tennessee Technology Park (ETTP), a former production facility that enriched uranium-235 by gaseous diffusion; and the Y-12 Plant, a production facility that formerly enriched uranium-235 by an electromagnetic process, and currently disassembles nuclear weapon components, processes nuclear materials, and performs other functions related to energy and national defense programs.

Many cleanup activities at the site have been grouped according to watersheds. ETTP is not a well defined watershed and is treated as a single watershed for administrative purposes. The Oak Ridge National Laboratory is divided into the Bethel Valley Watershed and the Melton Valley Watershed, both of which are drained by White Oak Creek. Y-12 is divided into the Bear Creek Valley Watershed and the Upper East Fork Poplar Creek (UEFPC) Watershed.

Site operations generated a variety of radioactive, non-radioactive, and mixed (radioactive and non-radioactive) hazardous wastes, most of which were containerized and buried below ground or stored in buildings on site.

An estimated 43,200 people obtain water from surface water intakes on the Tennessee River along a 118-mile stretch downstream from the site.

 

Threats and Contaminants
Leakage from buried waste areas and former processing facilities has contaminated soils, ground water, surface water and sediments. Site related contaminants above levels of concern include Base Neutral Acids, inorganics, metals, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), pesticides, radioactive materials, and volatile organic compounds. Some contamination has migrated beyond the boundaries of the ORR, primarily in the surface water and sediment pathways. Institutional controls are in place for these contaminated media located off the ORR and include fish consumption advisories, a permit review process for dredging sediments, and periodic surveys of land and resource use activities.

 

more at http://www.epa.gov/region4/waste/npl/npltn/oakridtn.htm

The ORR currently has about 35,000 acres. The three major DOE installations–the East Tennessee Technology Park (formerly the K-25 site and the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant), Oak Ridge National Laboratory (formerly the X-10 site), and the Y-12 National Security Complex (formerly the Y-12 plant)–occupy about 30% of that acreage. The remaining 70% was established as a National Environmental Research Park in 1980, to provide protected land for environmental science research and education and to demonstrate that energy technology development can coexist with a quality environment. Large portions of the reservation, much of which had formerly been cleared for farmland, have grown into full forests over the past several decades. Some of this land includes areas known as "deep forest" that contain ecologically significant flora and fauna; portions of ORR are considered to be biologically rich (SAIC 2002).

The ORR also included an area set aside for residential, commercial, and support services. The city of Oak Ridge was created in 1942 to provide housing to the employees of ORR and was originally controlled by the military (Friday and Turner 2001). The self-governing portion of the city of Oak Ridge comprises about 14,000 acres and contains housing, schools, parks, shops, offices, and industrial areas. The urban population of Oak Ridge continued to grow over several decades, and some residential properties are next to the ORR boundary line. Outside the urban areas, much of the region (about 40%) is still a pattern of farms and small communities, as it was historically (ChemRisk 1993c).

Public access is restricted at the Y-12 plant, which is located entirely within the ORR "229 Boundary." Y-12 is "an active production and special nuclear materials management facility [and so] additional security and access limitations apply" (DOE 2002b). Out of 1,170 acres in the Upper EFPC area, 800 acres are currently used for industrial purposes. This area includes maintenance facilities, office space, training facilities, change houses, facilities that were formerly used by the Oak Ridge National Laboratory Biology Division, waste management facilities, construction contractor support areas, and a high-security portion that supports core National Nuclear Security Administration missions (DOE 2002b).

A number of maps of this area indicate a wide range of land types, including "types of urban or built up land, agricultural land, rangeland, forestland, water, and wetlands," and uses that consist of "residential, commercial, public and semi-public, industrial, transportation, communication and utility, and extractive (e.g., mining)" (ChemRisk 1993c).

Agriculture (beef and dairy cattle) and forestry had been the two predominant land uses in the area around ORR; however, both of these uses are currently declining. For many years, milk was produced, bottled, and distributed locally. Corn, tobacco, wheat, and soybeans were the major crops grown in the area. Small game and waterfowl are hunted in the area continuously, and deer are hunted during certain periods (ChemRisk 1993c). Radiological monitoring is performed during the annual deer hunts to "provide assurance that harvested animals do not contain levels of radionuclides which would result in significant internal exposure to humans consuming meat from the animals" (Teasley 1995).

EFPC originates from within the Y-12 plant boundary, flows through the city of Oak Ridge for about 12 miles, and ultimately converges with Poplar Creek near the K-25 facility (DOE 1989). A number of small tributaries flow into the creek and support some small aquatic life. EFPC is classified by the state of Tennessee as appropriate for fishing, recreation, irrigation, livestock watering, and wildlife use (ATSDR 1993a). While people do not use the streams on the reservation, public access exists downstream from the reservation. The area that Lower EFPC flows through has many uses, which can be grouped into five categories: residential, commercial, agricultural, other, and DOE-owned (DOE 1995a). The creek appears to be too shallow for swimming, although some areas, particularly those near the confluence with Poplar Creek, are suitable for wading and fishing. TDEC issued a fishing advisory for EFPC that warns the public to avoid eating fish from the creek and to avoid contact with the water (ATSDR 1993a).

Groundwater is contaminated throughout much of the on-site Upper EFPC area. No one, however, is currently using the groundwater in the area where a contaminated groundwater plume extends past the ORR boundary (i.e., in Union Valley to the east of ORR) (DOE 2002b). The shallow groundwater along some off-site areas of the Lower EFPC floodplain contains metals at levels of public health concern; however, this off-site shallow groundwater is not used for drinking or other domestic purposes.

 

more.... http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HAC/PHA/oakridgey12/oak_p1.html

[CG6468]

Would just like to mention....that during the Manhattan Project - done in the Secret City, that no one "knew" about - stuff was buried in 50 gallon drums all over the place.

Well, 60+ years later, that stuff has now been seeping out of those drums for years into the land and into the water table.

The "Secret City" now known as Oak Ridge Tn is spending gazillions of federal monies trying to find those drums and properly dispose of them.

Though with the high rate of a variety of cancers in people all over the area, deer with 3 horns, fish with 3 eyes....it's a bit late for damage control....

Argonne National Laboratory near Chicago has the same problem. They have an area in the Forest Preserve where all kinds of toxic crap is buried.

[debk]

Argonne National Laboratory near Chicago has the same problem. They have an area in the Forest Preserve where all kinds of toxic crap is buried.

ORNL won't admit it, but they don't even know where most of the stuff is buried!

Nor will they admit to the high cancer levels around here. Several years ago, the town basically kicked an oncologist out, because he was trying to find out why so many people were getting cancer, and he blamed it on not only the labs, but the stuff that was buried. Not 60 Minutes, but one of those investigative shows did a whole hour on the guy. He couldn't even sell his house. I remember seeing the show....didn't even know about the guy prior to the show. There was never anything in the local papers about him being run out of town. The show was done after he had left.

[vesta111]

Uh, dearest--radioactive material decays.  In a matter of a couple of centuries it's LESS radioactive than the shit which was pulled out of the ground.

And before you get your granny panties in a wad over a couple of centuries, keep in mind 1--how much material we're talking about, 2--how much time a couple hundred years is in earth's history.

Thank you, and now you may go play in traffic.

As I sit here playing in the middle of the road I have to wonder if you are serious about your post.  Sorry Sparky the cops showed up and told me I cannot play in traffic.

Humanity is awash in its own offal.  We live in small towns that have a difficult time disposing of our garbage, imagine a city the size of Omaha out in the middle of no where as I remember, where do they dispose of their used oil, paints the acids and lead from manufacturing??  Where and how is toilet offal disposed of??? How do the hospitals dispose of out of date or faulty machines that use some kind of EX ray or chemo.?  Out of hospital medical divices used in doctors and dentists offices,?

Now my dear I worked for a few years as a Lagger and rip off of military ships as a worker for a government contractor.  There had to have been well over 1,000 other contractors in the Norfork area and there was plenty of work for all contractors.  My shop had 8 full time employees and hired temps when they were needed.

On a rip off we were dressed in head to foot white cloth suits, wore hard hats and given respirators.    The AB was triple bagged first a clear bag then a Red bag and then a green bag.   The cost for our employers to pay for the disposal of the AB was at that time  early 80's around $30.00 for a 30 pound bag.   Ouch allot of money when you add in the cost of the bags, the salary of the workers and then the cost to re cloth the pipes and some machines, some kind of material that reminded me of Styrofoam,  the product to mud them out, red lead paint came in here and the clothing out, then white paint.

Some contractors fudged the cost by removing the AB from the bags and dumping the AB in the Dismal Swamp area, others dumped the stuff in large dumpsters outside any mall with dozens of them not locked down.---No problem for them, it can take 40 years to get Lung disease or stomach cancer.

So now you find no problem that some areas in the world that have heavy metals or Radioactive shit leaking into the ground water causing the death of thousands of people for the next 100 years or more is NO PROBLEM.?????

Why would you believe that some Nuclear power country's that are led by Despots not use our oceans and Seas as a dumping ground for the nuclear waste---  None of these country's want to have large areas  of land uninhabitable for a couple hundred years.

One of our posters mentioned the Oak Ridge facility, and the rising number of deer born with extra legs, double sexed or deformed in one way or another.  Can't eat the fish , reminds me of way up in Maine the hundreds of years of paper mills and hide tanning factory's that has put lead and mercury into the streams and rivers.

We are going to drown in our own shit, look at London in the 1600's the Themes was so full of dead body's, animal and human that the stink could be smelled 50 miles from the city.    Chicago in the early 1700's where disease was rampent due to human offal dumped into the lake up stream from the fresh water intake pipes for city drinking water.

Worse scenario I can think of is if terrorists set off a dirty bomb, suite case type on the Boston water front----So for 100+ years no one can enter that area.   

You Sparky are riding the devil, you can tame it but to ignore the shit it leaves behind and have no idea what to do with it, the shit is more dangerous then the devil itself.  Just had an idea and heading out to the religious forum----

[Boudicca]

Is it just me or do Vesta and NHSparky have a love/hate relationship?

[thundley4]

Is it just me or do Vesta and NHSparky have a love/hate relationship?

It's not just you.

[Thor]

Is it just me or do Vesta and NHSparky have a love/hate relationship?

I think it's more of a hate/hate relationship.......