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Offline RealConservativePatriot

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Obama response to Libya
« on: March 19, 2011, 08:57:00 AM »
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51583.html

I am glad the President has allowed almost all options to be on the table, but I feel he has acted in a slow fashion. Now, perhaps his team needed time to investigate all the options, but the administration needs to tell America and the world that Gadaphi will no longer be tolerated and order needs to be restored. I feel his silence has caused problems from a P.R. standpoint, I just hope his actions whatever they may be create victory from a foreign policy stand point.
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Offline redwhit

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 12:09:28 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/plane-shot-rebel-held-city-libya-113932449/undefined

Wow.  France and Great Britain are leading the way. 

France.

Haven't seen this since, what, Charlemagne?
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 12:20:51 PM »
Well....there is some historical precedent.  Although Libya was an Italian colony initially, after WW II, it became a protectorate of the French and the British.

This historical presence by both nations could have influenced this move by the UN and NATO leaders.

doc
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Offline redwhit

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 01:40:24 PM »
Thanks, I had forgotten about the protectorate days. 

In all seriousness, how often has the US just followed the UN with another nation leading?
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 03:08:44 PM »
Quote from: redwhit on March 19, 2011, 01:40:24 PM
Thanks, I had forgotten about the protectorate days. 

In all seriousness, how often has the US just followed the UN with another nation leading?

Usually only when we have a spineless, candy-assed winp of a liberal in the White House.........

doc
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Offline redwhit

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 03:55:58 PM »
Kind of what I thought. 

The world is upside down.  Obama has just declared France the new de facto leader of the free world.

Remember the days when France was only followed on rearward movements?
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Offline debk

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 04:11:55 PM »
Let's see...Obama's in Brazil...goes on tv with "Hey Libya....we're going to bomb the hell out of your ass, but WE ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT GOING TO PUT OUR TROOPS ON THE GROUND. France is in charge."

That means...Libyans...regardless of which "side" they are on...are gonna die, get severely injured, and lose their homes.

Americans are going to be safe from harm. (Thank God!)..because France is in charge...and it WAS France that attacked first, not the US.

But for how long?

How long before France isn't capable of being in charge and somehow the US ends up in charge?

How, long, before somebody...with relatives in Libya who are killed....gets with somebody else whose relatives were killed, injured, or lost their homes....decides that this is all America's fault.....and comes after Americans? Either those at sea, those in other countries, those here on US soil?

How long before some terrorist Muslim cell does a "Three Musketeers - all for one and one for all" routine and decide the evil Americans have gone after our Muslim brothers...and therefore we Muslims must retaliate and kill American"?

How long before this whole mess becomes the US's fault? Cause it always comes down to being our fault. Always.

Why..WHY...did the US become involved...only AFTER Obama was out of the country? And gone for 5 days?

I hate to sound like I'm  :tinfoil2:...but none of this is giving me "warm fuzzies".
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Offline CG6468

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 04:23:50 PM »
The French, British and US have launched 112 cruise missiles into Lybia.

Article here
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 05:18:53 PM »
Yeah, but the critical question is how is Obama doing on his bracket?   
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 05:52:15 PM »
Let us never forget the immortal words of General George Patton, when he stated (paraphrased):

.......I'd rather be facing a German division than have a French division at my rear........."


dpc
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 09:39:36 PM »
All I can say is, I wouldn't want to be on a plane or around any "soft targets" in Europe for the next few weeks.

Just sayin.
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Offline Gina

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 09:44:10 PM »
MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger'...
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 06:01:54 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on March 19, 2011, 12:20:51 PM
Well....there is some historical precedent.  Although Libya was an Italian colony initially, after WW II, it became a protectorate of the French and the British.

This historical presence by both nations could have influenced this move by the UN and NATO leaders.

doc

Correct.  And let's not forget the 1956 Suez crisis.  Boy, wasn't that a genius move.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 01:02:58 PM »
Quote
Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart

Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.

A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.

The infighting comes as a heated meeting of NATO ambassadors yesterday failed to resolve whether the 28-nation alliance should run the operation to enforce a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone, diplomats said.

Yesterday a war of words erupted between the U.S. and Britain after the U.K. government claimed Muammar Gaddafi is a legitimate target for assassination.
Daily Mail
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 01:10:48 PM »
Germans...not as stupid as History Channel wants you to think they are.
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 01:34:59 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on March 20, 2011, 06:01:54 PM
Correct.  And let's not forget the 1956 Suez crisis.  Boy, wasn't that a genius move.

Well......I know little about military matters, but my friends in the ME are scratching their collective heads about this.......

Specifically, we've launched a "No fly zone" over a country that essentially has NO AIR FORCE.......they estimated that Libya had a few dozen old MIGs that were mostly nonoperational, and a few Russian helicopters.  At least what I'm hearing is that the bulk of Libya's military consists of armor and artillery, which unless you escalate a "No fly zone" to an all-out air assult, is essentially useless.........

Makes one wonder what is the real agenda here.......or if there even is one.  My greatest fear is that there is no real mission outcome behind this.....

doc
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Offline debk

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 02:21:35 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on March 23, 2011, 01:34:59 PM
Makes one wonder what is the real agenda here.......or if there even is one.  My greatest fear is that there is no real mission outcome behind this.....

doc

I watched the late rerun of Greta last night and she had Donald Rumsfield and Henry Kissinger on. Both of them were doing a bit of head scratching wondering why we were involved in this whole mess.

Rumsfield interview was much longer, as he was there in person...and Greta asked some really good questions. One that really struck me, is she asked R just what did he think we were trying to accomplish and he said (Kissinger later said essentially the same thing) that is Gahdaffi (sp?) is left in charge ...just what was the purpose of us going in there? What is changed? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except we have probably increased the animosity towards the US, from those in the midEast.

As far as R could tell, from talking to a variety of people....there are no plans to assassinate Gahdaffi, or to physically remove him..by the participating foreign forces. He said it's possible that some of the rebels will take him out, but no guarantee. Not only that, NO ONE that he has spoken with....is really sure just who the rebels are!! He questions, just who is it we are helping?

I saw on one of the network evening news programs, Monday? that the US had dropped/fired something like 116 missles/bombs, and the UK? 8!!!

We go in to this mess to "assist" and we are the ones doing the most damage. Who the hell is going to be the "victim" when someone retaliates? What if Iran comes to Gahdaffi's defense? Iran would love to start in on us.

Rumsfield also said, he has talked to no one that knows the "plan" for any of this mess, nor does any one know the "exit plan" for the US to get out of this.

More and more "warm fuzzies".... :argh:
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2011, 02:26:08 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on March 23, 2011, 01:34:59 PM
Specifically, we've launched a "No fly zone" over a country that essentially has NO AIR FORCE.......they estimated that Libya had a few dozen old MIGs that were mostly nonoperational, and a few Russian helicopters.  At least what I'm hearing is that the bulk of Libya's military consists of armor and artillery, which unless you escalate a "No fly zone" to an all-out air assult, is essentially useless.........

I guess he had a lot of flying tanks and rocket launchers mounted on hovercars, because that's what we seem to be attacking.  This whole thing makes no ****ing sense at all.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2011, 03:02:48 PM »
Obama is done. 2012 is ours for the losing.

Hillary's "3 a.m. phone call" ad all but crippled him in the primaries. Obama has had more than 2 years to "grow" into the job and doesn't have anything to show for it except a bitchin' drive off the blue tees.

The world is not less aggressive.

The US is not more respected.

The wars have not ended.

Obama has not matured in office. (manured in office is a different issue)

Libya is all but unwinnable at this point and Obama's fecklessness and indecisiveness are to blame and everybody knows it. The situation can only be salvaged with fast, competent leadership and that is nowhere to be seen. Nobody wants a weak leader in a dangerous world, not even the squishy-middle moderates (the left despises real leadership so they neuter themselves, i.e. Obama v. Reagan).

Obama is ending his presidency before our very eyes.

Obama loses 2012.

Bank. on. it.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 03:06:08 PM by SGT Snuggle Bunny »
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Offline redwhit

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2011, 06:57:34 PM »
Guess it probably is too much to expect the Germans to follow French orders.

Too bad there isn't a more or less impartial party, an industrial leader, a free democratic republic that could smooth out these regional issues through solid leadership.

Yeah.  Wish there was one of those. 
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Obama response to Libya
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 07:27:40 PM »
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec&feature=player_embedded#at=43[/youtube]

Took long enough.
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