Author Topic: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault  (Read 52929 times)

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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2008, 04:28:11 PM »
Hate crime legislation is wrong. It is tantamount to thought crime and is a very slippery slope. Our legal system does just fine without attaching thought crimes to existing charges. I am against hate crime legislation for the same reasons I am against affirmative action. We should never elevate one segment of the population over the rest. It's all politically correct bullshit.

I can say with certainty that every person I've worked with in law enforcement felt dedicated enough to find, charge and prosecute the offenders regardless of the victim's race, gender or sexual orientation. Violence is violence regardless and the fine men and women who dealt with it everyday will tell you that we don't need hate crime legislation. They are color blind, gender blind, sexual orientation blind, etc...when it comes to bringing justice.

We already have laws in place to deal with the crimes committed. No need to attach hate crime charges. Again, slippery slope.

hi-five :)
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2008, 04:29:09 PM »
It has some relevancy, but your case is lost.  To kill someone because of their association with a segment of the population (which you have yet to define) as opposed to kill then because of another reason (up to and including randomness) requires the State to mind read.


Not true.

Imagine the following scenario...

If a group of white students on trial for a string of beatings against black students are found to have exchanged emails which prove that the students planned the attacks for the purpose of terrorizing blacks students in the school, then no mind reading would be needed to determine the intent of the crime.

Of course, evidence of intent is not always available, but when it is available, it should be considered.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 04:30:53 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2008, 04:29:32 PM »
The number of CCers ignoring me just went from 5 to 7 as a result of this thread. Fascinating.

why would i ignore you? your stupidity is free comedy entertainment :-)
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2008, 04:31:09 PM »
Not true.

Imagine the following scenario...

If a group of white students on trial for a string of beatings against black students are found to have exchanged emails which prove that the students planned the attacks for the purpose of terrorizing blacks students in the school, then no mind reading would be needed to determine the intent of the crime.

Conspiracy and assault and battery. No HCL needs to be applied.
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2008, 04:31:17 PM »

That is an ACTION, not a thought.  And we are speaking of enhancement, not mitigation.


I know. The hypothetical case I presented was intended only to counter Downing's argument that the motivation behind a murder is irrelevant.

No my point was the whole concept of hate crimes (and hate speech) is leftist nonsense. It is literally criminalizing thought. People who act on their hatrid for whatever should ultimately be punished for the action, not because they hate whatever they attacked.
Exactly. If a person is motivated by hate, it will be presented at trial. Motive is always presented. It's up to the jury to decide the sentence according to established guidelines. They already take "thought crime" into consideration in a roundabout way. Everyone knows that how you come off at trial and how the case is laid out affects your sentence. If you're a hateful person motivated to commit a crime because of the hate, you can bet that will come into play during jury deliberations. It's called throwing the book at you. Happens everyday.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2008, 04:32:38 PM »
hi-five :)

I should get numerous hi-fives just for standing up to all you bitches.

:-)
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2008, 04:33:26 PM »
It has some relevancy, but your case is lost.  To kill someone because of their association with a segment of the population (which you have yet to define) as opposed to kill then because of another reason (up to and including randomness) requires the State to mind read.


Not true.

Imagine the following scenario...

If a group of white students on trial for a string of beatings against black students are found to have exchanged emails which prove that the students planned the attacks for the purpose of terrorizing blacks students in the school, then no mind reading would be needed to determine the intent of the crime.

Of course, evidence of intent is not always available, but when it is available, it should be considered.
You've never been involved in the legal system have you? Or have you at least watched Court TV? This is standard practice in the justice system.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2008, 04:34:18 PM »
Conspiracy and assault and battery. No HCL needs to be applied.

And what is the conspiracy? The conspiracy is not just to beat up students. The conspiracy is to beat up students and to terrorize a segment of the population in the school.
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2008, 04:35:40 PM »
I think you need to bone up on the current legal system TNO. Seriously.
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Chris_

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »

If I use your criteria, I need to actually attack a LOT of people to "terrorize a segment of the population."  Should the VA snipers have been prosecuted for targeting white people?

If evidence is found that the VA snipers targeted whites with the intent of terrorizing whites, then their crimes should be prosecuted as hate crimes.
When does murder not terrorize?
 :whatever:
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2008, 05:13:22 PM »
When does murder not terrorize?
 :whatever:

Murder terrorizes the family and friends of the victims, but in some cases, murder can terrorize the family and friends of the victims and an entire segment of the population. For instance, lynchings conducted by the KKK terrorized not only the family and friends of those lynched but blacks in general. In other words, people hung in KKK lynchings weren't the only victims of KKK lynchings.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 05:16:32 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2008, 05:50:45 PM »

If I use your criteria, I need to actually attack a LOT of people to "terrorize a segment of the population."  Should the VA snipers have been prosecuted for targeting white people?

If evidence is found that the VA snipers targeted whites with the intent of terrorizing whites, then their crimes should be prosecuted as hate crimes.
When does murder not terrorize?
 :whatever:
H5.  Murder always terrorizes the community it occurs in. 
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2008, 06:08:35 PM »
H5.  Murder always terrorizes the community it occurs in. 

If someone or some group is killing people of only one ethnicity in a community, then who in that community will feel the most terror? Obviously, the people belonging to one ethnic group, the group being targeted, will feel the most terror.
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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2008, 06:25:59 PM »
H5.  Murder always terrorizes the community it occurs in. 

If someone or some group is killing people of only one ethnicity in a community, then who in that community will feel the most terror? Obviously, the people belonging to one ethnic group, the group being targeted, will feel the most terror.

that is still no reason for criminalizing thought.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2008, 06:27:55 PM »

If I use your criteria, I need to actually attack a LOT of people to "terrorize a segment of the population."  Should the VA snipers have been prosecuted for targeting white people?

If evidence is found that the VA snipers targeted whites with the intent of terrorizing whites, then their crimes should be prosecuted as hate crimes.
When does murder not terrorize?
 :whatever:
H5.  Murder always terrorizes the community it occurs in. 

Except TNO -- his community is only terrorized when.. um.. when people write stuff on walls that threaten them.  Yeah, that's it.  But if you kill someone and don't let the authorities know, then it is a Hate Crime when -- um, I guess never.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2008, 06:37:28 PM »
HCL's are meant to create an aggravating factor when considering sentencing; but they strike me as extremely redundant and susceptible to abuse.

Conspiracy and other such charges are more than sufficient to aggravate a charge of criminal intent but to say a person was criminal for a thought rather than the action is a danger to liberty. The law has been quite capable for millenia of judging the difference between manslaughter and murder. The motive of murder never mattered as much as the fact that a life was taken with malicious intent. One can be a racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe/democrat but until that person commits a crime they are protected by law. In fact it isn't the racism/bigotry/sexism/homophobia that is the issue it is the violation of society's peace and order that is the crime.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2008, 06:40:52 PM »
Nocturnally foul one (I love Coach's nickname for you!), how 'bout this?  This one is from my own experience yesterday.  I'm walking up North Pearl Street in Albany on my break, with three of my co-workers.  Lo!  A big man in Bloods gang colors is coming the opposite way, strutting his way towards us.  We're all white, he's black.  We passed each other, but I figured that I'd acknowledge him, so as we passed, I said, "'Hey, Blood--how ya doin'?"  He didn't look at me, so I figured that I would leave that one right there.  My co-workers were silent, and one of them said to me, "What the Hell were you trying to do?"  I answered, "I'm acknowledging his presence.  It's a form of respect.  Gang members hate being disrespected.  Okay?"  The silence from my three co-workers was deafening.

Now, let's change it up a tad.  If he came towards us and pulled a weapon, saying, "Die, white scum" or something like that, and shot at us--but didn't hit us--would that be a hate crime, based on the obvious "Die, white scum" utterance?  (Remember something--you're wanting to prosecute intent.)  And, if you were David Soares (the Albany County DA), who has made a name for himself in going after steroid pushers, knowing that a big portion of your electorate were African Americans, would you prosecute?
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #92 on: April 11, 2008, 06:45:13 PM »

Sure, why not?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
Where does it say in the constitution that homosexuality is a protected trait?

The people decide the laws and the punishments for them. If they decide to execute homosexual pedophiles while giving lesser sentences to heterosexual pedophiles that is their legislative perogative unless it violates the BoR...which is absolutely silent concerning faggotuality.

BTW - why are Darwinists always such rabid faggotitis defenders?
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Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #93 on: April 11, 2008, 06:49:21 PM »
H5.  Murder always terrorizes the community it occurs in. 

If someone or some group is killing people of only one ethnicity in a community, then who in that community will feel the most terror? Obviously, the people belonging to one ethnic group, the group being targeted, will feel the most terror.
So, then, how does one measure ethnic terror over regular "OMG! there's a murderer in the neighborhood" terror?  Is the terror of a particular ethnic group more valued than the terror of the community as a whole?

It doesn't make sense.

Why not just focus on catching the murderer and bringing it to justice?  Wouldn't that set both the balkanized community and the community as a whole back to ease?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 06:51:58 PM by Duke Nukum »
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #94 on: April 11, 2008, 06:51:39 PM »
H5.  Murder always terrorizes the community it occurs in. 

If someone or some group is killing people of only one ethnicity in a community, then who in that community will feel the most terror? Obviously, the people belonging to one ethnic group, the group being targeted, will feel the most terror.
So, then, how does one measure ethnic terror over regular "OMG! there's a murderer in the neighborhood" terror?  Is the terror of a particular ethnic group more valued then the terror of the community as a whole?

It doesn't make sense.

Why not just focus on catching the murderer and bringing it to justice?  Wouldn't that set both the balkanized community and the community as a whole back to ease?


It's simple, really, what's more dangerous, someone out there hell bent on killing white people like you? Or a serial killer hell-bent on killing people that look just like you....you know, like the Lopper on Seinfeld? :sarcasm:

Which one wants to make you more dead?
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Offline Servonaut

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #95 on: April 11, 2008, 06:53:53 PM »
Holy Crap TNO I just noticed this

Quote
Reputation: +8/-787

Now I don't feel so bad about being BS twice.

One more H5 and i'm tied with you.  :cheersmate:

Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2008, 06:55:44 PM »
Holy Crap TNO I just noticed this

Quote
Reputation: +8/-787

Now I don't feel so bad about being BS twice.

One more H5 and i'm tied with you.  :cheersmate:
There you go.  You should see Johnny Matrix's BS count.  TNO is a piker by comparison.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2008, 06:56:37 PM »
Holy Crap TNO I just noticed this

Quote
Reputation: +8/-787

Now I don't feel so bad about being BS twice.

One more H5 and i'm tied with you.  :cheersmate:

When I got to it, you were already tied.  I pushed you over the top.  :-)
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Offline Servonaut

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2008, 06:59:41 PM »
Sweet !

Thanks Guys  :cheersmate:

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Egypt sentences 5 men for homosexuality - Christians at fault
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2008, 06:59:43 PM »
The people decide the laws and the punishments for them. If they decide to execute homosexual pedophiles while giving lesser sentences to heterosexual pedophiles that is their legislative perogative unless it violates the BoR...which is absolutely silent concerning faggotuality.


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