Are America's best days behind us?

[Bertram]

I am an American, not by accident of birth but by choice. I voted with my feet and became an American because I love this country and think it is exceptional. But when I look at the world today and the strong winds of technological change and global competition, it makes me nervous. Perhaps most unsettling is the fact that while these forces gather strength, Americans seem unable to grasp the magnitude of the challenges that face us. Despite the hyped talk of China's rise, most Americans operate on the assumption that the U.S. is still No. 1.

But is it? Yes, the U.S. remains the world's largest economy, and we have the largest military by far, the most dynamic technology companies and a highly entrepreneurial climate. But these are snapshots of where we are right now. The decisions that created today's growth — decisions about education, infrastructure and the like — were made decades ago.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2056610,00.html#ixzz1FyQrPE8Z

This is a great little article about whether the United States will be able to continue to keep its status without changing itself.
It's reminiscent of a fantastic column by Thomas Friedman called What’s Our Sputnik?, that has been seemingly plagiarized by main players on both sides of the isle, including Sarah Palin, on her Facebook and elsewhere, and Obama during his State of the Union.

I ask you. In general, are we on the way out? Are we the former Ottoman Empire of the world? The dying old man. Or can we get back on track?



quote tags --- Chris

[NHSparky]

Bitchslap for even asking such a stupid question.

Painfully apparent you're not more than 20-25 years old.  If you were, you'd remember 1979.

Don't bother, I won't try to explain to you.  Bottom line, we've been through worse, and we'll get through, with or without your help.  So you can lead, follow, or get the **** out of the way.

We have a country to return to the people.

[Gina]

Bitchslap for even asking such a stupid question.

Painfully apparent you're not more than 20-25 years old.  If you were, you'd remember 1979.

Don't bother, I won't try to explain to you.  Bottom line, we've been through worse, and we'll get through, with or without your help.  So you can lead, follow, or get the **** out of the way.

We have a country to return to the people.

well there ya go 

[Bertram]

Bitchslap for even asking such a stupid question.

Painfully apparent you're not more than 20-25 years old.  If you were, you'd remember 1979.

Don't bother, I won't try to explain to you.  Bottom line, we've been through worse, and we'll get through, with or without your help.  So you can lead, follow, or get the **** out of the way.

We have a country to return to the people.

But will others surpass us while we are still milling around sticking to the old methods that got us where we are instead of looking towards the future?

[Eupher]

But will others surpass us while we are still milling around sticking to the old methods that got us where we are instead of looking towards the future?

No.

Next question?

[FreeBorn]

"This is a great little article about whether the United States will be able to continue to keep its status without changing itself".

America will most certainly keep its status without changing itself. It will do so faster by getting rid of those who are trying to change the United States.

[Bertram]

"This is a great little article about whether the United States will be able to continue to keep its status without changing itself".

America will most certainly keep its status without changing itself. It will do so faster by getting rid of those who are trying to change the United States.

Your making these blanket statements but with no impact. HOW will keeping the status quo keep us in the lead?

[FreeBorn]

But will others surpass us while we are still milling around sticking to the old methods that got us where we are instead of looking towards the future?

Define your idea of "the old methods that got us where we are".

My take is that American ingenuity and a Git'erDone attitude got us where we were not long ago. Democrat politicians with their EPA horseshit and unions with their outrageous demands have driven America's manufacturing offshore.

[DefiantSix]

Your making these blanket statements but with no impact. HOW will keeping the status quo keep us in the lead?

Son, America got on top of the heap by adhering to the principle that more individual liberty and less government intrusion are what allows a human being to make the most of the life that God gave him.  Every other country on earth now - and yes, even America, under the current regime - is going in the opposite direction, and the predictable results of economic collapse, crime and social tension, and decaying standards are all around us to see.  Why in the hell would Americans want to get out in front of THAT?!?

[FreeBorn]

Here's a good read for you Bertram-
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:FdHJ2UbBBbcJ:www.americaneconomicalert.org/USBIC_Save_American_Manufacturing_Jobs_Plan.pdf+american+industrial+business+organizations&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjxtlB9hHsbWg5dvXyzN0zy1mfPbT2qy1oQRf_FuWsVXltYzLSUXseL3awb5ovaD0oSuZvmYPz5uL-YUqrAscKpezqxJFZcR2Dejrt2PpGNCipO9jTSke68gnxhQ40KHu6CHjJz&sig=AHIEtbRK9aVukkD5c77kDdzeJQCJplPWyg

[FreeBorn]

Read the article. When you're done with that one, read this one.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/is_the_american_dream_over.html

I'm busy clipping my pit's toe nails.

[Bertram]

Here's a good read for you Bertram-
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:FdHJ2UbBBbcJ:www.americaneconomicalert.org/USBIC_Save_American_Manufacturing_Jobs_Plan.pdf+american+industrial+business+organizations&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjxtlB9hHsbWg5dvXyzN0zy1mfPbT2qy1oQRf_FuWsVXltYzLSUXseL3awb5ovaD0oSuZvmYPz5uL-YUqrAscKpezqxJFZcR2Dejrt2PpGNCipO9jTSke68gnxhQ40KHu6CHjJz&sig=AHIEtbRK9aVukkD5c77kDdzeJQCJplPWyg

I have a gripe with this. It's suggesting that tariffs and regulation are the answer. But generally when you place a tariff, you get a bigger one in return. And it damages competition which is vital to a free market.
Right now China has a comparative advantage relative to labor.
Companies are investing in a nations comparative advantage.
I think instead of trying to fix an advantage we lost, we need to focus on the comparative advantages we DO have.
Technology. We have a comparative advantage in technology. We got this from education and innovation. We should be investing in this, instead of trying to fight a war we might not be able to win.

But this isn't the path we seem to be going down. For example, Congress might cut PELL by 15%. I think this is ridiculous because you want to invest in success. Especially for the future. And investing in education to further our comparative advantage of technology, and being innovative with new technologies. Apple, Google, Microsoft, IBM.

Now I'm not suggesting that we should let our manufacturing industry die, but we definitely need to consider that it might not be the way to further the success of the United States in the long term.

[dandi]

I ask you. In general, are we on the way out? Are we the former Ottoman Empire of the world? The dying old man. Or can we get back on track?

If you believe the bullshit flung by the dinosaur media that America is a nation in decline and the liberals are the only ones who are qualified to manage that decline, I can see where you might ask that question.

Anyone who has not witnessed active duty personnel continually yank miracles out of their asses to keep their gear running because they are forced to do "more with less" would be inclined to ask that question.

Anyone who does not witness the average working American do whatever it takes to keep food on the table without government assistance would be inclined to ask that question.

Anyone who has no clue about the stagnation and shame brought to us by Jimmy Carter and how we pulled ourselves out of it would be inclined to ask that question.

As Americans, it is hardwired into our DNA to win.  That's all we know how to do.  Winning is a product of the value of individual liberty being placed above everything else. 

There is no "status quo" anymore, the Tea Party and last November's elections proved that.  What you are seeing right now is the country shaking the "status quo" off and reasserting their true roots.  You don't need to waste your time reading the lament of any media figure; this country is great and will continue to be great. 

We are evolving and creating something new while at the same time we are coming back to grips with our founding principles.  The first step of this journey has been taken with kicking the trash out of Congress and the various State Legislatures.  The next step is to get rid of the rest of the trash in 2012.

[Pat]

But this isn't the path we seem to be going down. For example, Congress might cut PELL by 15%. I think this is ridiculous because you want to invest in success. Especially for the future. And investing in education to further our comparative advantage of technology, and being innovative with new technologies. Apple, Google, Microsoft, IBM

governments have no ability to invest.

[NHSparky]

I have a gripe with this. It's suggesting that tariffs and regulation are the answer. But generally when you place a tariff, you get a bigger one in return. And it damages competition which is vital to a free market.
Right now China has a comparative advantage relative to labor.
Companies are investing in a nations comparative advantage.
I think instead of trying to fix an advantage we lost, we need to focus on the comparative advantages we DO have.
Technology. We have a comparative advantage in technology. We got this from education and innovation. We should be investing in this, instead of trying to fight a war we might not be able to win.

But this isn't the path we seem to be going down. For example, Congress might cut PELL by 15%. I think this is ridiculous because you want to invest in success. Especially for the future. And investing in education to further our comparative advantage of technology, and being innovative with new technologies. Apple, Google, Microsoft, IBM.

Now I'm not suggesting that we should let our manufacturing industry die, but we definitely need to consider that it might not be the way to further the success of the United States in the long term.

It's not up to goverment to develop talent.  It's up to the INDIVIDUAL to develop their talents.  You're so worried about Apple, IBM, Google, etc., why aren't they stepping up and educating their workforce the way THEY want them trained?

Frankly, the government should get out of the education business--all they've succeeded in doing is driving up the cost of education without improving the results.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

Tell me, how are we going to compete when we spend FOUR TIMES AS MUCH AS WE DID 50 YEARS AGO, even when adjusting for inflation?  We don't get the results we did, that's for damned sure.  Our kids can't read their diplomas but they feel good about themselves and how they put that condom on the cucumber!

Next, countries are going to have a natural advantage when they don't have to adhere to silly little things like labor laws, safety regulations, environmental laws, stuff like that.  Then again, they never have, and we still stomp their asses into the ground.  Your hero Billy Jeff gave China MFN trading status despite their hostility to our products in their markets--either they won't allow them in, or they just rip them off.

Bottom line, we need to put the fear of God into kids, educators, and parents.  I've seen how other countries educate their kids.  Google the phrase, "Pass with four, fail with five."  Back in my day, kids were held back.  Now?  Screw it--move them along.

The difference between you and me, junior, is you expect someone to fix your ****ups and make you successful.  Me, I have to fix my own and MAKE my own success.

[Bertram]

If you believe the bullshit flung by the dinosaur media that America is a nation in decline and the liberals are the only ones who are qualified to manage that decline, I can see where you might ask that question.

Anyone who has not witnessed active duty personnel continually yank miracles out of their asses to keep their gear running because they are forced to do "more with less" would be inclined to ask that question.

Anyone who does not witness the average working American do whatever it takes to keep food on the table without government assistance would be inclined to ask that question.

Anyone who has no clue about the stagnation and shame brought to us by Jimmy Carter and how we pulled ourselves out of it would be inclined to ask that question.

As Americans, it is hardwired into our DNA to win.  That's all we know how to do.  Winning is a product of the value of individual liberty being placed above everything else.  

There is no "status quo" anymore, the Tea Party and last November's elections proved that.  What you are seeing right now is the country shaking the "status quo" off and reasserting their true roots.  You don't need to waste your time reading the lament of any media figure; this country is great and will continue to be great.  

We are evolving and creating something new while at the same time we are coming back to grips with our founding principles.  The first step of this journey has been taken with kicking the trash out of Congress and the various State Legislatures.  The next step is to get rid of the rest of the trash in 2012.

I smell Nationalistic bullshit!

--

Do more with less? The Military budget of the United States is larger (or almost as large) than than all other nations COMBINED.

--
Problems:
We have a national debt that's about the size of our GDP.
Our election system is ****ing stupid. (FPTF, Duverger's law, Electoral College)
Support (from forums like this, and in general) for partisan divide in politics.
Fiat Currency
and plenty of others that I'm sure I will mention later, but I must go now.

It's not up to goverment to develop talent.  It's up to the INDIVIDUAL to develop their talents.  You're so worried about Apple, IBM, Google, etc., why aren't they stepping up and educating their workforce the way THEY want them trained?

I'm not worried about them, I didn't say subsidize technology industry. I said support our comparative advantage of technology, science and our nations' academia tendency to innovate by investing money in education.

Tell me, how are we going to compete when we spend FOUR TIMES AS MUCH AS WE DID 50 YEARS AGO, even when adjusting for inflation?  We don't get the results we did, that's for damned sure.  Our kids can't read their diplomas but they feel good about themselves and how they put that condom on the cucumber!

I dunno about your state, but my state invests alot in education and has better results than most states, in both secondary and higher education.

Next, countries are going to have a natural advantage when they don't have to adhere to silly little things like labor laws, safety regulations, environmental laws

LOL.
Your assuming that a country should put its economic interests as number one and the well being of it's people at the bottom of the list?
xD

[NHSparky]

Do more with less? The Military budget of the United States is larger (or almost as large) than than all other nations COMBINED.

STFU and get your facts straight.  We have a standing military which costs us barely 4 percent of our GDP, and which AD, reserves, and NG account for less than 3/4 of 1 percent of the total population (2.25 million.)  

Compare this to the $1.2 TRILLION we spend on education in this country at the local, state, and federal levels each year--more than DOUBLE the entire DoD budget.

And then we have the Chinese:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41901298/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/

BTW--most analyists think the PLA budget is MUCH higher than they "officially" report.

Now let's get into numbers.  Remember, I said we've got about 2.25-2.3 million in our military, all branches.  

Iran has about 2.8 million.  In a nation with a population of 1/4 ours.
North Korea?  Nearly 10 MILLION, in a nation of barely 25 million.
The Russians, while having "only" 1.1 million active, has a total military strength of almost 22 MILLION.
Vietnam's military is over 5 million.
China has at least 4 million in their army alone.

We have a national debt that's about the size of our GDP.

And how did it get there, scooter?

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/06/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2010

35 percent of the average American's income come from government spending (SS, welfare, etc.)  In 1960, it was less than 10 percent.

We're spending like drunken sailors, but using other people's money to do it.  Enough is enough.  Stop paying $300K/year salaries to college professors and using that to try to justify $35K/year tuition at public universities, so mommy and daddy (and junior) have to go $140K+ in debt just to get the most basic of educations.

PELL Grants, loans, etc., are not "free".  Quit treating them like they are.  Rein in the spending and college costs, first by cutting off the "free money" teat, and then compelling colleges and universities to quit spending OTHER PEOPLE'S money like it's going out of style.  Harvard has a $28 BILLION endowment.  Other universities have similar funds.  Spend some of it instead of that of the taxpayer!

BTW--I've seen what my HS education was like.  I've seen what passes for a HS education these days.  To call today's education pathetic would not be strong enough.  Don't tell me that you get good results.

Your assuming that a country should put its economic interests as number one and the well being of it's people at the bottom of the list?

Never said we should.  But you should know who and what you're up against.  Ever been to China, junior?  I have.  Ever spent some time seeing how they do things elsewhere?  You might be surprised WHY they can afford to make such shitty stuff so cheap.

[Splashdown]

I just looked up the tuition for Northwestern University.

$56,000 a year. For a freaking bachelor's degree.

That's the school where a professor held a lab on vaginal penetration.

Nah. The education system's not effed up at all...

[ExGeeEye]

 

[FreeBorn]

"I smell Nationalistic bullshit"!

No, Bertram, you are being offered points of view from those who have been around the block a few times.
You're still shitting High School lunch but at least you seem to be sincerely seeking to expand your knowledge of the world around you. Wisdom comes through life experience over time, not from a textbook nor from the idealistic sermons of a university professor. There is a quote from Sir Winston Churchill which the left hates but it is true- "If at twenty you are not a liberal, you have no heart. If at forty you are not a conservative, you have no brain". Do you wonder why this is? You will understand it better once you have entered the workforce and witness the deductions from what you gross, when you have a mortgage, car payments, insurance premiums, utility bills, college tuition (not yours, your children's), property taxes, etc. etc.

You young guys should hang out with us old guys, we know stuff.

[dandi]

I smell Nationalistic bullshit!

Then you are stupid ****ing child who has no business being in the presence of your betters.  Take your sorry, liberal, psuedo intellectual ass somewhere others enshrine failure and navel gazing.

Do more with less? The Military budget of the United States is larger (or almost as large) than than all other nations COMBINED.

And what the **** do you know?  I spent 22 years of my life at the tip of the spear, boy, making sure you have the right to think you know something without actually having done it.

If I tell you that I had less OPTAR and Repair Parts funds to keep pace with a higher OPTEMPO, you can take it to the ****ing bank, junior.  Save your bullshit for someone who hasn't been there and done that.

Problems:
We have a national debt that's about the size of our GDP.

Elections, working on it.  Get the picture?

Our election system is ****ing stupid. (FPTF, Duverger's law, Electoral College)

Sorry, you lost me here.  The Electoral College is the only reason this country is not dominated by the deep blue urban shitholes.  As election systems go, it is the most fair.  Direct democracy is the death of any nation and our Founders understood it.

The only ones I hear bitching about the Electoral College are liberals and idiots.

I'm not worried about them, I didn't say subsidize technology industry. I said support our comparative advantage of technology, science and our nations' academia tendency to innovate by investing money in education.

Uh, how much more tax money do you want thrown into the black hole of public education?

I dunno about your state, but my state invests alot in education and has better results than most states, in both secondary and higher education.

Really?

Your assuming that a country should put its economic interests as number one and the well being of it's people at the bottom of the list?
xD

Maybe they should "invest" more in grammar and less in liberal propaganda.

[vesta111]

Himmmmm here, it is difficult for Americans today to become entrepreneurs with the traps laid in front of the  copy right laws and getting Patents for their products.

I keep thinking of the house wife that invented that " Topsy Tail Wand " for instance.----Google this for a horror story.

Did you know that most any country can rent a small office space in the US and declare it to be their American Office.    Just one room empty all ways, no phone or even electricity hook up ??

An  average person who comes up with a tool that can be marketed  when able to come up with enough money to patent the product, find a manufacture that can make the product at rock bottom price and add the advertising price to all this , can be screwed out of a fortune.

Some country's do not have to go along with our laws of patent or copy rights we Americans do, they  do have have a American office [empty ] so the divice one invents can be made somewhere in the world and sold to Walmart or whoever without paying the inventor one darn cent.

In the entertainment fields this is called PIRATING.

America is evolving due to changing times, we have threats to this country never dreamed of to our Founding Fathers.  our Country is changing not from decade to decade but minute to minute. fast and as it changes what today is the American dream and how will this change tomorrow.

Obama has signed an executive order that even if found innocent a person may still be held in Gitmo for life----WTF, we are now the first Western country to implement this travesty.  Will this spread to the State side Federal laws, then Into individual State laws.????

Keep an eye out on these Democrats, they say one thing and Obama is becoming some kind of dictactor that has suspended the Bill of Rights for some people in  Americans.    Even the Magna Carter gave people rights yet those living under it still fled to the new world.

We are rotting from within , our enemy's see this and jump on aboard to complete the process, it is not the insane Terrorists that we need fear, it as Pogo once said," We have met the enemy and it is us."

[Eupher]

I smell Nationalistic bullshit!

Bertie-boy, you wouldn't know nationalism if it bit you on the head of your liberal pecker. Instead of recognizing self-reliance and confidence borne of having to shoulder substantial loads for awhile, indeed, being the answer to life's problems instead of looking for the ****ing government for assistance, you think you smell "Nationalism." One of Hitler's attractions to the German people was his nationalistic stance against those, especially France, who signed off on the Versailles Treaty after WWI. Things went kinda okay for Adolf up until WWII compelled him to lay in a bunker in Berlin and put a bullet in his head. So how's that compare with what wasp69 is saying, Bertie-boy?

You're so young you haven't even learned (yet) that the spirit that wasp69 described is what made this country great. And the fact that you liberal youngster pissants continue to look toward your personal god and savior the government for your very existence, while frightening, do not mean the end of this Nation.

Why? I'm glad you asked.

Because even you bed-wetters and thumb-suckers eventually grow up. Some take longer than others, but after you've been on your own for awhile, have had to pay your rent, your electricity, your heat, your transportation, your groceries, and even your own ****ing health insurance, you learn that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

The rest of your bullshit was more than adequately addressed by others, including Sparky.

Oh, wait. One more pile of shit to clean up:

Your assuming that a country should put its economic interests as number one and the well being of it's people at the bottom of the list?

A country such as the U.S., when it's not being run by liberal socialists, looks toward creating an atmosphere of personal freedom where those who actually have the verve to get up off their asses and out of Mommy's basement create opportunities for themselves. Do enough of that and your silly-assed liberal meme of "well being of it's [sic] people" is addressed automatically by an upheaval and wave of economic good fortune for everybody who contributes.

Those who are accustomed to having their hand out to leech from those who do produce generally don't do so well.

Care to figure out what that's all about, Bertie-boy?  

[dandi]

Thanks for the kind words, Euph, and a bitchslap for your efforts.

 

[Eupher]

Thanks for the kind words, Euph, and a bitchslap for your efforts.

 

My pleasure.

h5 in return.