Wisconsin - Catch me up, I'm stupid

[korporal_krakrs]

I've heard bits and pieces about what's going on in Wisconsin, but I doubt I have the whole picture.  My understanding is that the protests revolve around the following (these are the objectionable issues being proposed)...

1) Union people would have the option of leaving said union
2) Union people would have to put, like, 5-12% (or some such) towards their own retirement and health insurance
3) "Collective bargaining rights" would be lost except for wage increases
4) ...

I'm not sure I'm aware of anything else.  I might be wrong about part of this list, too.  ???  Set me straight!  Also, and again I'm stupid, what are "collective bargaining rights"?  What does that mean exactly?

~ kk

[TVDOC]

On the issue of collective bargaining rights, at least as I understand it, in Wisconsin the Public Employees Union negotiates salaries and benefits for all the public employees in the state, even those in the smaller rural communities, for a given job, they are all the same regardless of WHERE the emplotee works.

The premise is that wages and benefits that might be appropriate in Milwaukee, or another metropolitan area are then forced on the budgets of small communities who cannot afford to pay them first, and second, their cost of living in the small communities is significantly lower, therefore warranting wages that are competitive in that town or county.  Under their present system, small towns have no choice to pay what is mandated at the state level.

Under the revised Wisconsin statute, every community would have the ability to negotiate these issues separately with their employees, therefore bringing them in line with the cost of living in that area.

I may be completely wrong, but this is how I understand how it works.

doc

[korporal_krakrs]

That would makes sense, and also make perfect sense to put a stop to it.  I wonder how many of those protesters are parents of children who at some time have thrown a fit because they wanted something their family just plain couldn't afford.  What do you suppose the parents did in that situation?  Quit feeding themselves and the other kids so they could buy this extra item for just the one?  I suspect not.  Not a perfect analogy, but I think the point is pretty valid.

[Eupher]

maybe a more general definition of "collective bargaining rights" is in order. If this is too general, just ignore what I'm saying. I don't mean to insult anybody's intelligence.

I've never been in a union, or really had to work around a powerful one, but as I understand it, "collective bargaining rights" is attributed to an employee's right to unionize. This much has been supported by the courts. The purpose of the union is to represent the employee within a group and when it comes to wage and benefit negotiation as part of a contract, "collective bargaining" means to bring in a third party to mediate disputes between the company and the union.

It's all about crunching the numbers, some bullshit called "good faith" (usually as prescribed on the company) and how best to negotiate without giving too much away.

[FreeBorn]

That would makes sense, and also make perfect sense to put a stop to it.  I wonder how many of those protesters are parents of children who at some time have thrown a fit because they wanted something their family just plain couldn't afford.  What do you suppose the parents did in that situation?  Quit feeding themselves and the other kids so they could buy this extra item for just the one?  I suspect not.  Not a perfect analogy, but I think the point is pretty valid.

Actually a very well framed analogy, spot on.
High 5 kk, welcome to the party!

[Varokhâr]

That would makes sense, and also make perfect sense to put a stop to it.  I wonder how many of those protesters are parents of children who at some time have thrown a fit because they wanted something their family just plain couldn't afford.  What do you suppose the parents did in that situation?  Quit feeding themselves and the other kids so they could buy this extra item for just the one?  I suspect not.  Not a perfect analogy, but I think the point is pretty valid.

Indeed, fine analogy! +1

I'm going to have to file that one away for future use. Hope it ain't copyrighted

[rich_t]

I heard that many of these Wisconsin teachers have their own kids in private schools.  Has anyone else heard this?

[thundley4]

I heard that many of these Wisconsin teachers have their own kids in private schools.  Has anyone else heard this?

I think I heard that something like 30% of Milwaukee teachers do.

[rich_t]

I think I heard that something like 30% of Milwaukee teachers do.

It's pretty telling that these teachers won't entrust their own kids to the same public education system that they work in ain't it?

[thundley4]

It's pretty telling that these teachers won't entrust their own kids to the same public education system that they work in ain't it?

Obama sends his kids to private schools and then cancels the voucher program in DC.

[Varokhâr]

I heard that many of these Wisconsin teachers have their own kids in private schools.  Has anyone else heard this?

In fact, it's quite common for Democrat politicians to have their kids in expensive private schools. I'm not sure offhand of any that send their kids to public schools.

Hypocrites.

[JohnnyReb]

In fact, it's quite common for Democrat politicians to have their kids in expensive private schools. I'm not sure offhand of any that send their kids to public schools.

Hypocrites.

Some kids are born with a silver spoon in their mouth...and then others who are not so lucky are born with a rusty fork up the ass.[DUmp/mode]

You would think that DUmmies, who bitch about rich kids having an unfair advantage in life would pickup on the rich white democrats giving their kids an unfair advantage.

[Varokhâr]

Some kids are born with a silver spoon in their mouth...and then others who are not so lucky are born with a rusty fork up the ass.[DUmp/mode]

You would think that DUmmies, who bitch about rich kids having an unfair advantage in life would pickup on the rich white democrats giving their kids an unfair advantage.

Heck yes! I've noticed this for years, that all the complaining about "the rich" never, ever applies to Democrat politicians (or celebrities). It's always "the rich" who are to blame, but never rich Leftists.

Leftists will fight to the death for the rich, so long as the rich are also on the Left as well.

[thundley4]

Some kids are born with a silver spoon in their mouth...and then others who are not so lucky are born with a rusty fork up the ass.[DUmp/mode]

You would think that DUmmies, who bitch about rich kids having an unfair advantage in life would pickup on the rich white democrats giving their kids an unfair advantage.

They don't object to the idea of private schools so much as they don't want tax payer money going to those schools and taking it away from the teacher's unions.

[Revolution]

Couldn't figure where else to put this, so I figured I'd put it here. For any out of staters who want to know about the protests...here is what they bring:


Credit to Brian Schimming of News/Talk 1310 WIBA Madison for the photo.


"What's disgusting...?" It isn't union busting anymore...

[AllosaursRus]

That would makes sense, and also make perfect sense to put a stop to it.  I wonder how many of those protesters are parents of children who at some time have thrown a fit because they wanted something their family just plain couldn't afford.  What do you suppose the parents did in that situation?  Quit feeding themselves and the other kids so they could buy this extra item for just the one?  I suspect not.  Not a perfect analogy, but I think the point is pretty valid.

I think ya understand it perfectly! H5!

Hey Rev, I'm sure when this is over they will clean the place up, just like us Tea Partiers when we get together, right? snicker!

[FreeBorn]

I heard that many of these Wisconsin teachers have their own kids in private schools.  Has anyone else heard this?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/22/20040922-122847-5968r/

36% here in my area. Kinda like buying a car from a guy who refuses to drive that kind.

[vesta111]

Much more involved with teachers sending their kids to private schools or the wealthy or high profile family's opting out of public schools.

First there is the security issue, having adult men and woman, armed at that hovering about in the background insuring the child would not be beaten, kidnapped or raped. 

The issue of the kids themselves having a difficult time finding a peer group to hang out with and their loss of privacy in general.

I will bet the teachers send their own children to religious schools so their kids will hang out with their own peer group and not come home cussing and acting out. 

The last thing a public school needs are students from wealthy and well connected family's to enroll children that are out and out bully's, down right mean and perhaps sadistic to boot.

What to do when a girl from a middle class family or lower on the social scale goes to her Principal to complain that a boy whose father is a big wig keeps grabbing her boobs.  She threatens to file a police report on that boy.   I have seen this handled in 5 ways to sunday and the one that looses is the girl.   

I come from a family of school teachers teaching in both public and private sectors.   From Grandmothers to Aunts to Uncles and Cousins, I grew up hearing the horror stories and saw for myself in school how things work.  My 4 kids went to both public and religious schools and I tell you ----The last the very last trade I would think of going into is that of teaching in any manner.
   

[Varokhâr]

I also wonder if any of the protesters are the kinds of people who have tons of credit card debt.

After all, the issue of credit card debt is basically the same as the issue of the national debt. Private citizens who can't afford X put X on their CCs and get to have X, but then get stuck with a huge bill for X that they have to carry around for years. The government wants X and can't afford X, so it gets X on credit (whether it's borrowing from the Chinese or something else), and then has X's debt to carry around.

In either case, it's irresponsibility that is the cause. I just wonder if any of the protesters are the sort who have massive CC debt in their lives and assume that it's also OK if the government does, so long as they get what they want.

Couldn't figure where else to put this, so I figured I'd put it here. For any out of staters who want to know about the protests...here is what they bring:


Credit to Brian Schimming of News/Talk 1310 WIBA Madison for the photo.


"What's disgusting...?" It isn't union busting anymore...

It's like Woodstock all up in there.

[Revolution]

That's what they want. However, they might want to remember that Woodstock came to a screeching freaking hault when 3 or 4 people got shot in Ohio.

[rich_t]

That's what they want. However, they might want to remember that Woodstock came to a screeching freaking hault when 3 or 4 people got shot in Ohio.

Are you referring to the Kent State shooting?

[Doc]

Yeah. Wasn't that what put a halt to it? The whole movement, I mean?

It seems to be somewhat back now.

[AllosaursRus]

Yeah. Wasn't that what put a halt to it? The whole movement, I mean?

It seems to be somewhat back now.

The reason is, those who started the SDS and the Weather Underground, some how got elected into power.

Americans are fickle. Enough so, they elected an empty suit who promised them transparency in government. Isn't that exactly what we all want?

We all would like nothing better than to see lobbyist exposed for all to see. We wanted the government to be transformed into something the people were in charge of!

We all would like nothing better than to see each and every bill, including the "Pork" displayed on the internet so laymen could peruse the details.

Isn't that what he promised? Oh, and did I mention if ya didn't vote for him and you were Caucasian, you would be a racist! The MSM made sure you felt that way.

Problem is, he's a lyin' sack 'o shit! He never intended to give the people what they wanted, he just figured he could pass enough shit so it wouldn't make any difference! He figured he could put better than half the population on the government dole, there by guaranteeing re-election for DemoncRats forever! If they could grant amnesty to illegal aliens, he just might get there!

Problem is, we fought back, when we discovered what he was doing, and decided we didn't want to be on the government teat and we didn't want those unwilling to work on it either! At least enough of those who voted for him have seen thru his shell game and have had enough!

ObieOne underestimated the HeartLand. Those that vote for him live on the government teat, or have marxist tendencies. They are no where near a majority, so he's suckin' hind tit like he deserves!

[Revolution]

^ Amen.

Oh, and did I mention if ya didn't vote for him and you were Caucasian, you would be a racist! The MSM made sure you felt that way.

When's the next Klan meeting, by the way? I always forget to mark 'em on my calender.