DUmmie nadin spins a bouncy.

[thundley4]

nadinbrzezinski   (1000+ posts)               Sat Feb-19-11 04:33 PM
Original message
Well just had a "talk" with a teabagger   
   
You should know all of you, union people are bottom feeders... anyhow... he had a moment of clarity when I mentioned to him that if the people he follows get their way, he won't have to worry about them bottom feeders in the teacher union. I mean school ain't needed for a kid going to the factory to work at around eight. Math, letters? You kid me? I also reminded him that he had a WEEKEND... and to thank the union for that.

The wheels started to grind, I swear...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x458144

[TexasCop]

That's odd.  My kids go to a school district where the teachers aren't unionized.  My 15-year-old sophomore just scored so highly on his PRE-SATs that colleges are calling us off the hook!  My 12-year-old gets straight A's in all his pre-AP classes.  My 7-year-old recently won an award for the top performer in her school.  All three of their schools are rated as "Excellent" by the TEA. 
 
I guess getting rid of unions will destroy all this for me, huh?

[GOBUCKS]

It would be a public service if coach would give the morbidly obese know-it-all DUmmy a link to the diet scam doctor McDonald or Mcdougall, or whatever. He allegedly guided the Las Vegas cetacean through the quarter-ton barrier, which is a major endorsement indeed, if true. Can you imagine the back-and-forth between her and the equally know-it-all whale? Wisdom would be dripping from every crack and crevice. Every roll of fat would sparkle with knowledge.

[franksolich]

It would be a public service if coach would give the morbidly obese know-it-all DUmmy a link to the diet scam doctor McDonald or Mcdougall, or whatever. He allegedly guided the Las Vegas cetacean through the quarter-ton barrier, which is a major endorsement indeed, if true. Can you imagine the back-and-forth between her and the equally know-it-all whale? Wisdom would be dripping from every crack and crevice. Every roll of fat would sparkle with knowledge.

Well, I fear the gigantic primitive's relapsed.

He hasn't posted for a while, and so one reasonably suspects he hasn't posted for a while because he's larded on more poundage, rather than losing it.

The gigantic primitive probably figured out that once he hit 300, the engineer of the disability gravy-train was going to tell him he was able to work, and the gigantic primitive doesn't want that, no way.

[BEG]

That's odd.  My kids go to a school district where the teachers aren't unionized.  My 15-year-old sophomore just scored so highly on his PRE-SATs that colleges are calling us off the hook!  My 12-year-old gets straight A's in all his pre-AP classes.  My 7-year-old recently won an award for the top performer in her school.  All three of their schools are rated as "Excellent" by the TEA.  
 
I guess getting rid of unions will destroy all this for me, huh?

When we lived in DFW my daughter had 21 kids in her class,  we moved to CA ( had to for my husbands work) and now she has 31.  Tachers were laid off this year too so I don't know what the class size will be next year.

[GOBUCKS]

Three hundred is a pipe dream. Notice that every photo of the whale has been either a head shot, or a full quarter-ton blowout. If he had really lost significant weight, he'd be posting photos daily, just to rub he other fatties noses in it. That's the way DUmmies do things, not unlike Pam's ever-present Coach purse knockoff. I won't believe a waifish Kirk until I see it. And he's safe from working, since his 15EEEEEEE size requires that he wear a briefcase on each foot, a custom frowned upon by employers.

[zeitgeist]

That's odd.  My kids go to a school district where the teachers aren't unionized.  My 15-year-old sophomore just scored so highly on his PRE-SATs that colleges are calling us off the hook!  My 12-year-old gets straight A's in all his pre-AP classes.  My 7-year-old recently won an award for the top performer in her school.  All three of their schools are rated as "Excellent" by the TEA. 
 
I guess getting rid of unions will destroy all this for me, huh?

Gee I wonder if Sidwell Friends is unionized?  And come to think of it, I heard somewhere that if you turned most top flight prep schools on end and shook you would be hard pressed to find many teaching degrees among the staff.  

[TexasCop]

Your poor child.  That really makes it hard to learn.  My wife is a 4th grade teacher and she finds herself forced to cater to the lowest common denominator in the class.  She gets a lot of kids who are special education, but don't qualify for a full-time special ed class.  She has to give them so much attention, she finds herself neglecting her brighter students.  Those kids are kept from their full potential because they're always stuck waiting on the slower or ESL students.  My wife finds creative ways to keep them challenged, but it's really hard when she gets more than 20 kids.

[BEG]

Your poor child.  That really makes it hard to learn.  My wife is a 4th grade teacher and she finds herself forced to cater to the lowest common denominator in the class.  She gets a lot of kids who are special education, but don't qualify for a full-time special ed class.  She has to give them so much attention, she finds herself neglecting her brighter students.  Those kids are kept from their full potential because they're always stuck waiting on the slower or ESL students.  My wife finds creative ways to keep them challenged, but it's really hard when she gets more than 20 kids.

My kids are all smart (no thanks to me ) so learning isn't a problem for them. They have always been in gifted and talented programs. It makes me wonder though if they would be at the same level if we had lived here for their whole lives. 

[VivisMom]

Gee I wonder if Sidwell Friends is unionized?  And come to think of it, I heard somewhere that if you turned most top flight prep schools on end and shook you would be hard pressed to find many teaching degrees among the staff.  

You're right. There's no requirement in a private school for a teacher to have a teaching degree. I would actually bet you money that most of the teachers at snooty Sidwell have degrees in their subject area and not in education.

And unionized? 

[formerlurker]

Your poor child.  That really makes it hard to learn.  My wife is a 4th grade teacher and she finds herself forced to cater to the lowest common denominator in the class.  She gets a lot of kids who are special education, but don't qualify for a full-time special ed class.  She has to give them so much attention, she finds herself neglecting her brighter students.  Those kids are kept from their full potential because they're always stuck waiting on the slower or ESL students.  My wife finds creative ways to keep them challenged, but it's really hard when she gets more than 20 kids.

So what should be done about the "lowest common denominator" in the classroom?

[formerlurker]

When we lived in DFW my daughter had 21 kids in her class,  we moved to CA ( had to for my husbands work) and now she has 31.  Tachers were laid off this year too so I don't know what the class size will be next year.

31 students require a very gifted teacher for that to be productive/successful.    CA is the poster child for what is wrong in education.

[TexasCop]

So what should be done about the "lowest common denominator" in the classroom?

First of all, the state needs to quit counting their scores towards the standardized testing grades.  A mildly special ed student is required to take the same test as normal children.  This forces teachers to slow down the curriculum until the slower students "get" the material, which can take some time.  If that student fails the standardized testing, it reflects poorly on the teacher.  They can't dock their pay, but they can (and do) move them to less desirable grade levels.  

Secondly, they need to quit putting ESL students into regular classrooms.  Last year my wife got a kid (adoption from China) who didn't speak ANY English.  Everything she taught had to go through a translator (in class, BIG distraction) and feedback had to be received the same way.  Guess what?  He had to take the same standardized test as the other kids.  

[miskie]

The charter that our oldest ( and eventually the younger two the charter is 5th through 12th ) attends well exceeds state requirements, and its teachers are only given one year contracts. Imagine that. 

[formerlurker]

First of all, the state needs to quit counting their scores towards the standardized testing grades.  A mildly special ed student is required to take the same test as normal children.  This forces teachers to slow down the curriculum until the slower students "get" the material, which can take some time.  

I have a better one for you.   How about the school district provide the supports the student needs to be successful in the classroom?  You know, those pull out for pre-teaching, re-teaching?    proper modification of curriculum and teaching methodologies so these students can actually learn?  

The whole don't-you-dare-assess-me-based-on-the-slow-kids argument makes me want to vomit.   A good teacher should and can teach, and motivate all levels.   Those teachers aren't a myth, they work in my school district. A mildly special education student is more than capable of learning and staying grade equivalent.

NCLB Act brought accountability of teaching the student with special needs.  Prior to that they were locked in the windowless classroom in the basement.    All students can learn, and when they learn they become contributing members of society.  

If that student fails the standardized testing, it reflects poorly on the teacher.  They can't dock their pay, but they can (and do) move them to less desirable grade levels.  

Well then this teacher should be advocating for services for that student then, or embrace differentiated instruction (which is supposed to be a requirement, but like everything else the US DOE mandates, it falls apart when theory meets practice because there is no real accountability so school districts punt the far majority of the time).   A student with a disability who is not keeping up with the general curriculum should be on an IEP.   The assessment (whatever that is in Texas) would (or should) then subgroup that student into that category.  SpEd students are failing in Mrs. Johnson's class should then trigger further review as to what is missing --are accommodations appropriately being provided for testing/assessments, does this student require more services?  etc.    It shouldn't delegate the teacher to a less than desirable grade levels (whatever the hell that means).

Secondly, they need to quit putting ESL students into regular classrooms.  Last year my wife got a kid (adoption from China) who didn't speak ANY English.  Everything she taught had to go through a translator (in class, BIG distraction) and feedback had to be received the same way.  Guess what?  He had to take the same standardized test as the other kids.  

ESL students are not special needs students, or they sure as hell shouldn't be designated that way.   They have  (or should have) their own subgroup of ESL.  I bet you that student is fluent in English now, or pretty close to it.   I am completely against the ESL substantially separate rooms, which a great deal of school districts keep those students in the entire time they are with them.    Boggles the mind.   Young children -- especially elementary age students -- are capable of picking up languages quickly.  Peer modeling is certainly the quickest way to learn that skill.    

[formerlurker]

The charter that our oldest ( and eventually the younger two the charter is 5th through 12th ) attends well exceeds state requirements, and its teachers are only given one year contracts. Imagine that. 

The turnover in charters (in MA at least) is alarmingly high.   Honestly, those teachers want a padded public school contract and to be tenured.  They are teaching at charters because there are no open positions in public schools.   There are a dozen or so truly outstanding charter schools in MA, however that is unfortunately not the norm, especially in the Boston area.

[TexasCop]

I didn't say she doesn't teach them.  She does.  It just takes more effort and it slows down the class for the other children.  I know reading comprehension can be tough, but try it.

[formerlurker]

I didn't say she doesn't teach them.  She does.  It just takes more effort and it slows down the class for the other children.  I know reading comprehension can be tough, but try it.

I read your posts and know exactly what kind of teacher your wife is.   


Next.

[Ballygrl]

I think I need to boycott Nadin threads.

[miskie]

The turnover in charters (in MA at least) is alarmingly high.   Honestly, those teachers want a padded public school contract and to be tenured.  They are teaching at charters because there are no open positions in public schools.   There are a dozen or so truly outstanding charter schools in MA, however that is unfortunately not the norm, especially in the Boston area.

This particular charter isn't that bad - its existed for 8 years, and most of the educators have been there for at least half of that time. In the beginning though, I understand that there was a lot of turnover. I guess its balanced out with teachers that are in it for the long-haul. 

[AllosaursRus]

My kids are all smart (no thanks to me ) so learning isn't a problem for them. They have always been in gifted and talented programs. It makes me wonder though if they would be at the same level if we had lived here for their whole lives.  

I find bribery works very well! I pay my grandkids $20's for "A's" and $10's for "B's". So far, I've only seen 3 "C's" among all 4 of them! The last one won't start kindygarten for another 2 years!

I should also add, if they have problems in any class, they better tell me or I'll kick their ass!

[AllosaursRus]

I have a better one for you.   How about the school district provide the supports the student needs to be successful in the classroom?  You know, those pull out for pre-teaching, re-teaching?    proper modification of curriculum and teaching methodologies so these students can actually learn? 

The whole don't-you-dare-assess-me-based-on-the-slow-kids argument makes me want to vomit.   A good teacher should and can teach, and motivate all levels.   Those teachers aren't a myth, they work in my school district. A mildly special education student is more than capable of learning and staying grade equivalent.

NCLB Act brought accountability of teaching the student with special needs.  Prior to that they were locked in the windowless classroom in the basement.    All students can learn, and when they learn they become contributing members of society.   

Well then this teacher should be advocating for services for that student then, or embrace differentiated instruction (which is supposed to be a requirement, but like everything else the US DOE mandates, it falls apart when theory meets practice because there is no real accountability so school districts punt the far majority of the time).   A student with a disability who is not keeping up with the general curriculum should be on an IEP.   The assessment (whatever that is in Texas) would (or should) then subgroup that student into that category.  SpEd students are failing in Mrs. Johnson's class should then trigger further review as to what is missing --are accommodations appropriately being provided for testing/assessments, does this student require more services?  etc.    It shouldn't delegate the teacher to a less than desirable grade levels (whatever the hell that means).

ESL students are not special needs students, or they sure as hell shouldn't be designated that way.   They have  (or should have) their own subgroup of ESL.  I bet you that student is fluent in English now, or pretty close to it.   I am completely against the ESL substantially separate rooms, which a great deal of school districts keep those students in the entire time they are with them.    Boggles the mind.   Young children -- especially elementary age students -- are capable of picking up languages quickly.  Peer modeling is certainly the quickest way to learn that skill.     

OK! I agree but, who should pay for all this extra stuff? If a parent doesn't parent, how can ya hold the rest of us responsible, cause that's who ends up payin' for it! I don't have a problem footin' the bill for my family, why should I foot the bill for others who are on the free ride because DemonRats say we can't discriminate?

If I had a child with special needs, I sure as hell wouldn't put them in a public school where I know they're goin' to be at a disadvantage!

When do we start holdin' parents responsible for their children? Sounds to me like, if ya have a child that needs an interpreter, maybe ya oughta fix that before you lay the expense at the taxpayers feet. 'Course I'm considered a right wing nut job! What do I know?

The American Taxpayer is more than willin' to be responsible for their own children. What do we do about those that load us up with children that don't even speak English because their parents still haven't learned the language? Furnish them an interpreter? Ya can't be serious!

[formerlurker]

OK! I agree but, who should pay for all this extra stuff? If a parent doesn't parent, how can ya hold the rest of us responsible, cause that's who ends up payin' for it! I don't have a problem footin' the bill for my family, why should I foot the bill for others who are on the free ride because DemonRats say we can't discriminate?

If I had a child with special needs, I sure as hell wouldn't put them in a public school where I know they're goin' to be at a disadvantage!

When do we start holdin' parents responsible for their children? Sounds to me like, if ya have a child that needs an interpreter, maybe ya oughta fix that before you lay the expense at the taxpayers feet. 'Course I'm considered a right wing nut job! What do I know?

The American Taxpayer is more than willin' to be responsible for their own children. What do we do about those that load us up with children that don't even speak English because their parents still haven't learned the language? Furnish them an interpreter? Ya can't be serious!

Really depends on the disability, as a lot of private (and charter -- even though it is illegal for them to do so) schools won't even entertain an application from a student with a disability. 

IDEA, passed by Nixon, strengthened by Reagan and GHWB (who added the ADA), with real accountability introduced by GWB.    They recognized that teaching students with special needs -- or rather, forcing teachers to teach them, yields the best long term results as like I stated in previous post, these students are more than capable of learning and once they do they will become productive members of society.

It's not free appropriate public education just for the "normal" kids, it's for all students.    ESL students, usually don't have interpreters in the classroom (at least they don't in MA), and when integrated into regular classrooms they should pick up English rather quickly.   No idea what is going in Texas where interpreters are being furnished at taxpayer's expense.

[AllosaursRus]

This would be fine in a perfect world. However, having janitored for the school district up here when construction was in free fall, it has been my experience that teachers tend to go at a clip geared to their slower students. Once you put a student in the class that needs special attention, it tends to slow the whole process down even further.

Hell, the teachers even seem to retreat to their kids level rather than the other way around. Not really fair to the brighter kids or their parents.

[formerlurker]

This would be fine in a perfect world. However, having janitored for the school district up here when construction was in free fall, it has been my experience that teachers tend to go at a clip geared to their slower students. Once you put a student in the class that needs special attention, it tends to slow the whole process down even further.

Hell, the teachers even seem to retreat to their kids level rather than the other way around. Not really fair to the brighter kids or their parents.

Can't fault these students for less than mediocre teachers.