It is time to stop using "illegal" as a noun, referring to a person.

[thundley4]

backscatter712   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:04 PM
Original message
It is time to stop using "illegal" as a noun, referring to a person.
   
I consider it as offensive as dropping the N-bomb when referring to black people.

Why?

Because the entire concept of "illegal people" is despicable. It's dehumanizing. It's not enough to simply prosecute a person for breaking a law, the right wing now has to declare the person himself as "illegal", with no recourse to become "legal" except to leave the country.

The right wing is currently howling about "illegals" because they can't call them more conventional racial slurs in public without being called out.

But we all know what they mean.

It's time that calling a person an "illegal" become as socially unacceptable as calling him the W-word or the S-word.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x448670

Statistical   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. What would be an acceptable term to describe someone living in the country in violation of US law?

 Unlawful? Criminal?

backscatter712   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Undocumented person seems to be the term-du-jour.
   
But what's with that obsession with the law?

Chances are good your ancestors (unless you're Native American) didn't come to the U.S. with papers either. For most of this country's history, no papers were required - all you had to do was find your way onto a ship, sail to America, fill out some paperwork at Ellis Island, and then gain your citizenship in a few years.

The current crop of "undocumented" people are considered that way, or considered "illegal" because some douchebags in Congress with political power wrote laws declaring them so. It's an arbitrary, political distinction that people take far too seriously, and use to create a regime of apartheid in the U.S.

Every nation has illegal immigrants.  No country that I have ever heard of has an open border policy. Almost every other nation has stricter immigration standards.

Statistical   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Global median income $800, US median income $39,800.
   
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 02:21 PM by Statistical
So the "obsession" with the law is very important. The reality is there are billions of people willing and able to do you job (no matter what it is) for half the wage you currently make (that is rather generous). Hell not only would they do they job, they would be overjoyed, and feel immensely grateful.

Laws like immigration control protect US standard of living. I don't care if you are a factory worker, a mechanic, a computer programmer, or a doctor someone in the world is more than qualified to do your job for 50%, 70%, 90%, 99% less than your are willing to.

Without immigration control all wages would move to global median. For the US that is a mighty long fall.

Donald Ian Rankin   (1000+ posts)             Fri Feb-18-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. "Undocumented" strikes me as a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.
   
The use of the word "undocumented" strikes me as an attempt to imply that the issue is merely that people have immigrated without filling in the proper forms, when in fact they have immigrated in deliberate defiance of the law.

I agree that "illegal" as a noun is unpleasant, because it implies that the only significant thing about a person is their "illegality", but I think that "illegal immigrant" is a better term than "undocumented immigrant".

Upton   (1000+ posts)             Fri Feb-18-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. They are here illegally are they not?
   
Therefore calling them "illegal" is correct. I will continue to use the term..

backscatter712   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What part of "bad law" don't you understand? n/t

Upton   (1000+ posts)             Fri Feb-18-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. What part of "illegal" don't you understand?
   
The law is the law whether you like it or not. Breaking it is ILLEGAL.

backscatter712   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I understand just fine.
   
I suppose you'd be busting Rosa Parks - refusing to move to the back of the bus was illegal for black people back in the day.

But by all means, continue browbeating about a brain-damaged law to cover for your racism. That'll win us over.

Statistical   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. That is "bad" about immigration control.
   
The US economy can't handle a massive influx of persons willing (and in many cases) able to work for significantly reduced wages.

Think we have high unemployment now. Imagine if the border to Mexico was open and anyone in the world could legally work in the US. You would see a massive inflow of labor. Supply and demand. More supply (labor) lower prices (wages).

Most DUmmies are not concerned with losing jobs that they don't have. That is why they support illegals.

Zoeisright   (1000+ posts)           Fri Feb-18-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. A person is more than his state of citizenship.
   
And it's childish not to acknowledge that. The term "illegal" is offensive.

Try crossing the border into North Korea or Iraq with that attitude.

Donald Ian Rankin   (1000+ posts)             Fri Feb-18-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Illegal is an adjective.
   
By all means use the term "illegal immigrant" for people who have immigrated illegally.

But I think that referring to someone simply as an "illegal" implies that nothing about them matters except their illegality; it also obfuscates the fact that the only law they have broken is immigration law, not more serious ones.

Plus it's gramatically incorrect. Add a noun, like "immigrant" or "migrant".

Breaking immigration laws is denying the sovereignty of the nation that makes those laws.

[Chris_]

QUARANTINE FOX NEWS!!!

How's the boycott coming, backscatter?

[Godot showed up]

I don't really have a problem with this. "Invaders" works for me. Nothing dehumanizing about that, either, unless you think we're talking about an invading horde of mice.

[DefiantSix]

I don't really have a problem with this. "Invaders" works for me. Nothing dehumanizing about that, either, unless you think we're talking about an invading horde of mice.

I like the term "valid targets", personally.

[Thor]

I like the term "valid targets", personally.

 


 

[JohnnyReb]

How 'bout "fur'n thief"....will that work?

[franksolich]

I consider it as offensive as dropping the N-bomb when referring to black people.

Well, I find it offensive when the primitives describe an infant in the womb as a "useless clump of cells."

[jukin]

I take from this that the term 'ILLEGAL' is gaining traction and working against the interests of the communist democrat party.

[Boudicca]

Criminal invaders.  Works for me.

[AllosaursRus]

I take from this that the term 'ILLEGAL' is gaining traction and working against the interests of the communist democrat party.

Now that states are goin' broke because of illegals stealin' from their social services, we're goin' to see a big push for ObieOne to do somethin' about it!

DUmmies are just feelin' the first speed bump. Wait until it turns into a 60° incline! Yugos can't climb hills. DemonRats are gonna wish they never got on the side of amnesty!

We're ****in' broke, and most Americans are realizing it! Have ya heard one solution from the DUmp, other than to steal from the rich? Nope, with them it's always give us more, and more, and more, without ever coming up with a way to pay for it! They're even willing to give up their freedom in order to get it, too!