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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2011, 10:02:49 AM »
First of all let me say that I don't like or trust Obama or anyone in his administration.  I also don't trust wikileaks.  Assange has had this so-called information for several months, who can be sure he isn't doctoring the files?  He obviously hates America and I certainly wouldn't put it passed him to leave stuff out or put stuff in to suit his own intrests. Can anyone tell me why I can't find this so-called leak on a wikileaks site?  And where did the British find it?

I found a site (by googling) that explained that Russia wanted this info to make sure that we weren't just transferring our own nukes to Britain instead of getting rid of them.  Seems logical.  If we agreed to destroy some of our nukes but just sent them to Britain instead, the Russians would gain nothing from the treaty.  I can understand them wanting this information to ensure that we aren't doing that.  I don't agree with the whole treaty to begin with, but if we are going to do it, the Russians made a reasonable request.  But again, why can I only find these leaks by reading that someone claims to have read them?  I would like to see the leaks themselves.

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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2011, 10:08:07 AM »
Quote from: unbiased on February 06, 2011, 10:02:49 AM
First of all let me say that I don't like or trust Obama or anyone in his administration.  I also don't trust wikileaks.  Assange has had this so-called information for several months, who can be sure he isn't doctoring the files?  He obviously hates America and I certainly wouldn't put it passed him to leave stuff out or put stuff in to suit his own intrests. Can anyone tell me why I can't find this so-called leak on a wikileaks site?  And where did the British find it?


I've wondered about that myself.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2011, 11:35:03 AM »
The flaw in that rather-appealing view of Wikileaks is that everybody in the Oministration is pissed about Wikileaks publishing communiques and correspondence, but none of them are claiming any of it was false or fabricated by Assange.  Pretty much tells you all you need to know about that theory, right there.
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2011, 12:07:01 PM »
It still does't change the fact that we can't find the releases in America.  It also doesn't change the fact that the only part of this particular story realeased said that we sold out Britain.  He obviously left some things out of his release.  Or maybe the British press left some things out.  We simply don't know.  Six pages of "impeach Obama" kinda sounds like the DUmpsters reaction to anything that made Bush look bad.

Would I like to see Obama impeached? Yes.  But not for hearsay.  He's done enough right out in the open.

Is Obama socialist? Yes.  I don't like anything he is doing with our country.

Is Obama stupid? No.  He convinced a majority of Americans to vote for him and most are regretting it.  But, he did pull it off.

So, would he do something as dumb as that story suggested? No.  He is much more coniving than you all are giving him credit for.  He would sell them out, but he wouldn't do it in such an obvious way.

Do I trust Wikileaks? No.  Assange hates America.  Why would anyone here trust him?

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2011, 12:52:45 PM »
Quote from: unbiased on February 06, 2011, 12:07:01 PM
So, would he do something as dumb as that story suggested? No.  He is much more coniving than you all are giving him credit for.  He would sell them out, but he wouldn't do it in such an obvious way.

You're vastly overestimating him.
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2011, 01:04:32 PM »
Well, let me ask you this.  If we were signing an agreement that said that Russia had to destroy part of their nuclear weapons, would you just trust them to do it?  Or would you want some sort of guarantee that they would?  That guarantee may include the serial numbers or what ever Obama "supposedly" gave up.  I would hope that our President would be smart enough to ensure that Russia just didn't give those weapons to Iran or anyone else who didn't like us.  So, it doesn't sound like an unreasonable request from Russia.

The unreasonable thing is that he wants this treaty to begin with.  We are the only ones giving anything up.  He is essentially weakening America for no reason.  Russia knows this and played their hand well.  We stand to gain nothing from this treaty.  Giving up that information didn't hurt anyone but us. 

But, if all wikileaks released was the fact that we gave up that information and they didn't release the part of why we did, then wikileaks is doctoring the information to support their agenda.  Again, I don't know if they released everything about this or not.  All we read about is what the British have released.  WHY CAN'T WE READ IT FOR OURSELVES?  I think people are getting mad at the wrong thing.  We are apparently being censored.  I would not put that passed Obama, either.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2011, 01:21:15 PM »
Your whole first paragraph causes me cognitive dissonance, it's almost like you believed the Russians would still follow a treaty for a moment longer than it proved convenient for them to do so, or something.  Have you never heard the phrase 'Broken as many times as a Russian promise?'  Do you not think that six different things can be made with the same serial number stamped on them, and marked the same, as long as no two of them end up in the same place while anyone is looking?

This treaty is in Russia's current interest because it limits US but affords them more-or-less status quo for what they have that is actually still in working condition, thereby obviating any need on their side to put any more resources into the nuclear weapons money pit than they already do, while preventing us from obtaining any dominance over them during their current less-than-world-power doldrums for the next ten years.  Not that our current strategy calls for dominating them, even if building them into a distant second place was the strategy that won the Cold War, because that wouldn't be very Progressive of us, comrade.

They expect to be a lot stronger in 10 years.  They expect us to be no stronger than we are now.  This treaty is a positive conservation of force exercise for them, a no-gain for us.   
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2011, 01:24:05 PM »
Most voted for Obiewan because, not to would have made them look racist in their little feeble minds. The press made sure to press the guilt issue all the while refusing to vet him like they would any other candidate runnin'!

Obumbler is DUmber than a drawer full of used socks! He proves it every day! His foreign policy is proof enough for me he's in way over his head!

I suggest you check out HotAir's Obamaturism of the day!
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2011, 01:35:57 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on February 06, 2011, 01:21:15 PM
They expect to be a lot stronger in 10 years.  They expect us to be no stronger than we are now.  This treaty is a positive conservation of force exercise for them, a no-gain for us.   

I'm sorry.  Isn't that what I said?  I said there was no one losing here but us.  Maybe you said it better.  I agree with your assessment.  I just think that people are over-reacting to us "selling out Britain".  We sold ourselves out not Britain.  And I was making the point that IF you WANTED to make this treaty work, then you would have to ensure Russia that we were weakening ourselves instead of just moving missles elsewhere. 

Also, could one person show me a link to the alleged leaks?  Why is everyone assuming all or even some of this is true?  If there is no actual evidence (aside from what a British report "tells us"), then why are you all over-reacting.  People on this site are usually much more cautious.  I think there have been many knee-jerk reactions and comments made that make people seem as silly as the DUmp.  All I ask is for proof.  And I don't doubt that we won't find it if Obama doesn't want us to.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2011, 02:02:12 PM »
You're blending all the posters together, I have never said a word about impeaching him.  It's the President's prerogative to sell out anyone to make a treaty deal, par tof his powers to conduct foreign affairs of the nation and all that.  All it really means legally is that he may have a Hell of time getting Senate ratification of the treaty later, if too many Senators don't like the deal or the sell-out (And they find out about it in advance of the vote).  Of course whoever gets sold out isn't going to be his Facebook friend afterward.

I await developments.  If it isn't true, or it's plausibly deniable, either the White House or Downing Street will issue a demurral in due course.  If they remain silent, then that probably says something else.

As far as insisting people show it to you; (a) you're kind of vague about how where and how hard you've tried looking for it yourself, and (b) nobody's going to take the time to find something for you anyway, it only comes across as moling...and if you really are a mole, UR doin it Wrng.
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #85 on: February 06, 2011, 02:35:40 PM »
I am not even close to a mole.  I have googled every thing I know to google.  I can not find a wikileaks release that says anything like this.  But, apparently they can be found in Europe.  That doesn't concern you?  And I guarantee that you did try to find it, but couldn't.  I also never said that YOU said to impeach him.  Scroll back a few pages and you will find plenty of people who said just that. 

Like I said.  People are over reacting to something we have no or little proof of.  It is exactly what people did when Bush was president and it is embarrassing.  I don't like Obama or anything about him.  But a half story is just that, a half story.  I am just saying, let's get all the facts first.

Also, not replying to this is exactly what a president should do.  It is one of the few things he has done right.  He can't spend his time verifying or denying every accusation against him.  If he did, that's all he would have time for because acknowledging it makes it see credible in the first place.  Then, more and more people just start saying stuff and when he doesn't reply to all of them, they would claim it's true because he didn't reply to it.  It's like the Truthers or Birthers.  A president can't be concerned with every single accusation.  Show proof first.  That is all I'm saying.

If wanting proof makes me sound like a mole, then so is everyone who asked for proof when something bad was said about Bush.
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Offline BEG

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #86 on: February 06, 2011, 02:48:21 PM »
Quote from: unbiased on February 06, 2011, 02:35:40 PM
I am not even close to a mole.  I have googled every thing I know to google.  I can not find a wikileaks release that says anything like this.  But, apparently they can be found in Europe.  That doesn't concern you?  And I guarantee that you did try to find it, but couldn't.  I also never said that YOU said to impeach him.  Scroll back a few pages and you will find plenty of people who said just that. 

Like I said.  People are over reacting to something we have no or little proof of.  It is exactly what people did when Bush was president and it is embarrassing.  I don't like Obama or anything about him.  But a half story is just that, a half story.  I am just saying, let's get all the facts first.

Also, not replying to this is exactly what a president should do.  It is one of the few things he has done right.  He can't spend his time verifying or denying every accusation against him.  If he did, that's all he would have time for because acknowledging it makes it see credible in the first place.  Then, more and more people just start saying stuff and when he doesn't reply to all of them, they would claim it's true because he didn't reply to it.  It's like the Truthers or Birthers.  A president can't be concerned with every single accusation.  Show proof first.  That is all I'm saying.

If wanting proof makes me sound like a mole, then so is everyone who asked for proof when something bad was said about Bush.


It would be this first time for this petty president, I guess there is a first time for everything.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2011, 02:50:48 PM »
Just like a leftist to demand proof of one thing, yet deny the need for it for another.

How about I'll show the same concern for producing a birth certificate as Barry shows for hiding his student records...
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2011, 03:01:49 PM »
Quote from: dutch508 on February 06, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Just like a leftist to demand proof of one thing, yet deny the need for it for another.

How about I'll show the same concern for producing a birth certificate as Barry shows for hiding his student records...

Where did that come from?  I only asked for proof of this alleged leak.  What did your student records reference have to do with anything?  And when did I say that he should or shouldn't provide them?  Did you just make that up?  I haven't said anything about Obama providing proof of anything.  I simply want the author of that story to provide proof.  Maybe you are on a wrong thread.

If there really was a leak, don't you think we could find it?  If not, why?  Why is everyone assuming Assange is releasing everything he has verbatim?  The dude is the same as a terrorist, yet you are all assuming he is telling the truth.  If there was a leak, show it.  If all the leak says is what is in that article, then he IS manipulating the facts.  It isn't hard to see that.  And I am anything but a leftist.  Just calm down, and try to find the truth.  If it is there, okay.  If not, then speculation and over reaction makes everyone look silly.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 03:08:50 PM by unbiased »
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Offline gurn

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2011, 02:33:12 AM »
Y'all are too hard on the Imam Barack.

Yes. This is unfair to the Brits.

But you have to understand, he offered US nuclear secrets to Russia first.

Medvedev told him,

"No thanks. We already have those."

So what could Obamao do?  

He definitely should apologize to Hu Jin Tao & Lang Lang about this.
It was very rude not to offer them the secrets also.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 02:39:41 AM by gurn »
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2011, 02:30:28 PM »
The story was mentioned on Fox this morning, unbiased.  The morning hosts were ragging on Stuart Varney about it a bit.  Just thought you'd like to know.

 :whistling:
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Offline dutch508

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2011, 03:48:43 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on February 07, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
The story was mentioned on Fox this morning, unbiased.  The morning hosts were ragging on Stuart Varney about it a bit.  Just thought you'd like to know.

 :whistling:

what will be the next excuse for the leftist apologizers?
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Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2011, 03:54:30 AM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on February 07, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
The story was mentioned on Fox this morning, unbiased.  The morning hosts were ragging on Stuart Varney about it a bit.  Just thought you'd like to know.

 :whistling:

You know, I would like to put him in a room with that Piers Morgan boob.

Heh,....guess he can't get ratings either.   Too funny.
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2011, 09:13:16 AM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on February 07, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
The story was mentioned on Fox this morning, unbiased.  The morning hosts were ragging on Stuart Varney about it a bit.  Just thought you'd like to know.

 :whistling:

I didn't see that.  What did they say about it?  I can't find the actual wikileaks report anywhere on the internet, which is a bit disturbing to me.  They shut the entire internet down in Egypt so I wouldn't put it passed the government to keep this stuff hidden from us.  So far, all I can find is people in Europe saying this was released.  I would love to know what Fox News was saying.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2011, 11:42:08 AM »
Quote from: unbiased on February 08, 2011, 09:13:16 AM
I didn't see that.  What did they say about it?  I can't find the actual wikileaks report anywhere on the internet, which is a bit disturbing to me.  They shut the entire internet down in Egypt so I wouldn't put it passed the government to keep this stuff hidden from us.  So far, all I can find is people in Europe saying this was released.  I would love to know what Fox News was saying.

Here's HotAir's take. Sounds to me like Obiewan and Hitlery are tryin' to cover their collective asses on this one. It has an excerpt from the document leaked by Assange and his buddies.

I'll let ya make up your own ,mind, but it appears we have always told Russia of transfers from us to the Brits, but we never sent them the identifiers which tells them the exact number the Brits have. Some anonymous source is coverin' for us, but the document speaks for itself.

You'll never see this in American media as the MSM is to Obiewan like Lewinsky was to Clintoon. Heard that from Rush just now. Hehehehehe
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Offline Godot showed up

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2011, 01:10:31 PM »
Quote from: AllosaursRus on February 08, 2011, 11:42:08 AM
Here's HotAir's take. Sounds to me like Obiewan and Hitlery are tryin' to cover their collective asses on this one. It has an excerpt from the document leaked by Assange and his buddies.

I'll let ya make up your own ,mind, but it appears we have always told Russia of transfers from us to the Brits, but we never sent them the identifiers which tells them the exact number the Brits have. Some anonymous source is coverin' for us, but the document speaks for itself.

You'll never see this in American media as the MSM is to Obiewan like Lewinsky was to Clintoon. Heard that from Rush just now. Hehehehehe

Or as a congressional page is to Barney Frank?
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2011, 03:55:58 PM »
Quote from: AllosaursRus on February 08, 2011, 11:42:08 AM
Here's HotAir's take. Sounds to me like Obiewan and Hitlery are tryin' to cover their collective asses on this one. It has an excerpt from the document leaked by Assange and his buddies.

I'll let ya make up your own ,mind, but it appears we have always told Russia of transfers from us to the Brits, but we never sent them the identifiers which tells them the exact number the Brits have. Some anonymous source is coverin' for us, but the document speaks for itself.

You'll never see this in American media as the MSM is to Obiewan like Lewinsky was to Clintoon. Heard that from Rush just now. Hehehehehe

I am a little confused here.  Tell me if this is what you are saying.

We told russia of transfers to Brits, but did not send identifiers.  Is that right?  If so, then doesn't that make the original story from this thread bogus?  And I didn't see a link to hotair, but I will try to look it up.  Thanks for the info.  Let me know if I read this wrong.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #97 on: February 08, 2011, 05:14:15 PM »
Quote from: unbiased on February 08, 2011, 03:55:58 PM
I am a little confused here.  Tell me if this is what you are saying.

We told russia of transfers to Brits, but did not send identifiers.  Is that right?  If so, then doesn't that make the original story from this thread bogus?  And I didn't see a link to hotair, but I will try to look it up.  Thanks for the info.  Let me know if I read this wrong.

My take on the thing is we have always let the Soviets know we were selling weapons to a third party, but we never reported how many, as it undermines another country's security for the Russky's to know the nature of the threat or retaliation they face. By givin' up the serial numbers the Russians can determine the exact count the Brits had, which is what they disagreed with in the new treaty and told the State department they didn't want divulged!

Der Zero decided to give it up anyway, something that will again undermine our relations with our Allies!

What's not to get? If you want any info you will have to research Brit papers, since our MSM is incapable of callin' out our Empty Suit for his blunders!

ETA:

Here's the link from HotAir I thought all "conservatives knew who HotAir was. It was initially started by Michelle Malkin and several of her comrades.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 05:41:09 PM by AllosaursRus »
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Offline unbiased

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #98 on: February 08, 2011, 06:18:36 PM »
I get all of that.  That is pretty much what I have been saying.  Everyone has been getting mad about the serial numbers and that IS NOT WHAT WE SHOULD BE MAD ABOUT!  Here is what I have been trying to get through.

1) The treaty itself hurts us and only us.  Giving the serial numbers is trivial.

2) Apparently they can get the wikileaks releases in Europe, but we can't get them here.  All we can get here is hearsay from Europe.  Why isn't every single person on this site mad that we are being censored?
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets
« Reply #99 on: February 08, 2011, 06:50:25 PM »
Quote from: unbiased on February 08, 2011, 06:18:36 PM
I get all of that.  That is pretty much what I have been saying.  Everyone has been getting mad about the serial numbers and that IS NOT WHAT WE SHOULD BE MAD ABOUT!  Here is what I have been trying to get through.

1) The treaty itself hurts us and only us.  Giving the serial numbers is trivial. No this is where you are missin' the point! This particular info really doesn't hurt us at all! The Treaty itself hurts us, but not nearly to the extent it hurts our most stalwart Ally. It hurts the Brits, because now the Russians know the extent of the Brits sub arsenal! Somethin' I think even you would agree is not a good idea!

2) Apparently they can get the wikileaks releases in Europe, but we can't get them here.  All we can get here is hearsay from Europe.  Why isn't every single person on this site mad that we are being censored? No shit Sherlock! Every person here has been pissed about this since Lord Zero was elected by morons like you, that never checked him out! The MSM has covered for him since 2006 and it is just more fuel on the fire! We don't bring it up everyday since we all know that, and have known that, from the git go!

Ya wanna be careful of accusing us of not bein' informed. Unless of course ya wanna be a pariah. I'd stick around a little longer and get to know us before you start makin' judgments.
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