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Author Topic: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule  (Read 5101 times)

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Offline Chris_

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Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« on: January 26, 2011, 11:08:58 AM »


Tens of thousands of people demanding an end to the nearly 30-year rule of President Hosni Mubarak filled the streets of several Egyptian cities on Tuesday, in an unusually large and sometimes violent burst of civil unrest that appeared to threaten the stability of one of the United States’ closest Arab allies.

The protests, at least partly inspired by the toppling of the authoritarian government in Tunisia, began small but grew all day, with protesters occupying one of Cairo’s central squares. Security forces, which normally prevent major public displays of dissent, initially struggled to suppress the demonstrations, allowing them to swell.

But early Wednesday morning, firing rubber bullets, tear gas and concussion grenades, the police finally drove groups of demonstrators from the square, as the sit-in was transformed into a spreading battle involving thousands of people and little restraint. Plainclothes officers beat several demonstrators, and protesters flipped over a police car and set it on fire.

New York Times

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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2011, 11:14:47 AM »
Taliban II, anyone?  Remember, the assassination of Sadat was committed by the predecessors of Al-Qaeda.

http://middleeast.about.com/od/egypt/a/me081006a.htm
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 01:07:37 PM »
Although there are certainly some pro-democracy reformers participating, they always seem to end up with hind tit when a government actually does get driven from power in the Arab world (Though the Egyptians don't regard themselves as Arabs, it's a fine point that matters more to their national pride than actually meaning anything to the West).

Net on this is that it's not good for us.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 04:04:18 PM »
....and for added excitement, they're killing a few christians on the side.
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Offline ExGeeEye

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 07:39:02 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on January 26, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
Although there are certainly some pro-democracy reformers participating, they always seem to end up with hind tit when a government actually does get driven from power in the Arab world (Though the Egyptians don't regard themselves as Arabs, it's a fine point that matters more to their national pride than actually meaning anything to the West).

Net on this is that it's not good for us.

Why do they call themselves the Arab Republic of Egypt, formerly United Arab Republic?  Or was that just Nasser's handiwork?
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Offline cavegal

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 08:51:55 PM »
Not good.
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Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 09:34:18 PM »
Quote from: cavegal on January 26, 2011, 08:51:55 PM
Not good.

Nope.  Not good at all.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 08:43:28 AM »
Quote from: ExGeeEye on January 26, 2011, 07:39:02 PM
Why do they call themselves the Arab Republic of Egypt, formerly United Arab Republic?  Or was that just Nasser's handiwork?

Precisely, that dates back to Nasser.  Egypt really never had any chief executive who was anything but a strong man in the job for life or until couped out, the 'Republic' part is purely notional. 
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Offline cavegal

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 10:31:10 AM »
Mubarak’s Wife and Son Flee to London amid Protests

http://voiceofthecopts.org/en/news/mubarak_s_wife_and_son_flee_to_london_amid_protests.html

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The wife of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and their son Gamal, considered the successor to his father as president, have fled to London with 97 suitcases after unprecedented massive protests in Egypt, an Arab website reported.

The plane also carried Gamal's daughter, the Akhbar Arab website reported. It also said a Twitter account was blocked to prevent a social network campaign to urge the ousting of Mubarak, who is over 80 and is reportedly is suffering from cancer.
Didn't the WH during the Christmas vacation (Congress was in recess) authorize a huge sale of weapons for Egypt?
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2011, 01:02:08 PM »
Quote from: cavegal on January 27, 2011, 10:31:10 AM
Mubarak’s Wife and Son Flee to London amid Protests

http://voiceofthecopts.org/en/news/mubarak_s_wife_and_son_flee_to_london_amid_protests.html
 Didn't the WH during the Christmas vacation (Congress was in recess) authorize a huge sale of weapons for Egypt?

I don't know about that specifically, but the peace deal after the '73 war involved weaning the Egyptians off of Soviet gear and us re-equipping them with US stuff in exchange for moving them out of the Soviet camp, so it's entirely possible.  We dump quite a lot of money* into both Egypt and Israel every year just to keep them happy and apart from each other.

*By 'Quite a lot' I mean in foreign aid terms, which is a whole lot less than people think it is, and basically chicken feed compared to any of fifty different domestic entitlement programs.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2011, 08:43:39 PM »
Quote
Egypt internet down, counterterror unit up

Internet service in Egypt has been disrupted and the government has deployed an elite special operations force in Cairo today, hours before an anticipated new wave of anti-government protests.

The developments are a sign that President Hosni Mubarak's regime is toughening its crackdown following the biggest protests in years against his nearly 30-year rule.

The counter-terror force, rarely seen on the streets, have taken up positions in strategic locations, including central Tahrir Square, site of the biggest demonstrations this week.
3news.co.nz
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Offline Gratiot

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2011, 09:14:50 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on January 26, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
Although there are certainly some pro-democracy reformers participating

I hate to say this, but pro-democratic reform in Egypt may not be in the best interest of Egypt, the Middle East, or the rest of the World.  It'd clearly be hard to not label Mubarak's 30 year rule under emergency powers anything but a dictatorship.  But with him in power, he has brought moderation to much of the middle east talks, outlawed the Muslim Brotherhood, kept extremist mostly in check, and has made progress in helping the Egypt people while not turning into the symbol of corruption as the Tunisia government did.

A family friend whom was born there, actually just returned from a vacation there.  It was her first time visiting in around twenty years, and she said she couldn't even recognize the place.  She said so many people have moved there from other conflict areas, that the population has just exploded with foreigners.  Poor, uneducated, and destitute foreigners whom have pretty much over ran the country.  She fearfully called it a giant powder keg just waiting to be lit into a revolution like in Tunisia.  With cell phones, text messages, and internet forums organizing it all.  It could be a scary sight, to see what Egypt could become if it truly had a democratic government under those conditions, pretty horrible catch-22 for a fan of democracy.
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Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2011, 08:23:14 AM »
Quote from: Gratiot on January 27, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
I hate to say this, but pro-democratic reform in Egypt may not be in the best interest of Egypt, the Middle East, or the rest of the World.  It'd clearly be hard to not label Mubarak's 30 year rule under emergency powers anything but a dictatorship.  But with him in power, he has brought moderation to much of the middle east talks, outlawed the Muslim Brotherhood, kept extremist mostly in check, and has made progress in helping the Egypt people while not turning into the symbol of corruption as the Tunisia government did.

A family friend whom was born there, actually just returned from a vacation there.  It was her first time visiting in around twenty years, and she said she couldn't even recognize the place.  She said so many people have moved there from other conflict areas, that the population has just exploded with foreigners.  Poor, uneducated, and destitute foreigners whom have pretty much over ran the country.  She fearfully called it a giant powder keg just waiting to be lit into a revolution like in Tunisia.  With cell phones, text messages, and internet forums organizing it all.  It could be a scary sight, to see what Egypt could become if it truly had a democratic government under those conditions, pretty horrible catch-22 for a fan of democracy.

I have to agree for the reason that if an extremist government takes over Egypt, the whole region could plunge into war. Israel may be forced to defend itself against the new regime, and Syria and Hezbollah would join the fray. It could be 1973 all over again, or worse.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 08:36:59 AM by Attero Dominatus »
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2011, 09:14:50 AM »
Quote from: Attero Dominatus on January 28, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
I have to agree for the reason that if an extremist government takes over Egypt, the whole region could plunge into war. Israel may be forced to defend itself against the new regime, and Syria and Hezbollah would join the fray. It could be 1973 all over again, or worse.

Not quite...they can't count on us for anything this time. They're on their own.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2011, 09:55:52 AM »
Quote from: JohnnyReb on January 28, 2011, 09:14:50 AM
Not quite...they can't count on us for anything this time. They're on their own.

That is a terrifying thought.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2011, 10:01:34 AM »
Quote from: Celtic Rose on January 28, 2011, 09:55:52 AM
That is a terrifying thought.

Yes, it is....I also think that their inability to count on us to back them up has been what keeps them from taking out Iran's nuclear facilities.

If we keep a republican house, get a republican senate and president in the next national election, I think they'll jump the Iranians within a few days of them taking office.
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"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2011, 11:06:39 AM »
Even a takeover by an Islamist government is not going to result in immediate war with Israel, Barry's and Hitlery's ineffectiveness in dealing with this crisis will be a legacy problem for their successors, unless he wins re-election in which case he might get to see the chickens come home to roost.
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Offline Revolution

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2011, 11:49:50 AM »
Don't know if anybody wants to see coverage of AlJazeera English, but I'm watching it to keep track of events. Here:

http://www.blogslut.com/blogslut/

Muzzie Brotherhood have their grubby little paws big time into this.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2011, 01:48:57 PM »
According to CNN, the Egyptian stock market is tanking.
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Offline cavegal

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2011, 03:09:03 PM »
W.H. won't take sides in Egypt

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0111/no_call_to_mubarak_685ba76a-4f96-40dc-b38e-bb440170113f.html

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President Obama has not spoken with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak as protesters in Cairo demand that Mubarak resign, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Friday.

Gibbs said the White House is “watching and monitoring very closely” the political crisis in Egypt, but he wouldn’t take a side in the conflict. “This is a situation that will be solved by the people in Egypt,” he said.

The White House will “be reviewing our assistance posture based on events that take place in the coming days,” Gibbs said.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2011, 04:04:19 PM »
Now here's something interesting . . .

Quote
Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising

The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning “regime change” for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

By Tim Ross, Matthew Moore and Steven Swinford
9:23PM GMT 28 Jan 2011
15 Comments
 
The American Embassy in Cairo helped a young dissident attend a US-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.

On his return to Cairo in December 2008, the activist told US diplomats that an alliance of opposition groups had drawn up a plan to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak and install a democratic government in 2011.

He has already been arrested by Egyptian security in connection with the demonstrations and his identity is being protected by The Daily Telegraph.

The crisis in Egypt follows the toppling of Tunisian president Zine al-Abedine Ben Ali, who fled the country after widespread protests forced him from office.

The disclosures, contained in previously secret US diplomatic dispatches released by the WikiLeaks website, show American officials pressed the Egyptian government to release other dissidents who had been detained by the police.

The rest is here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

Shades of Jimmah . . .

There are reports that the Egyptian people are welcoming the military being deployed.  Kinda like saviours.




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Offline vesta111

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2011, 05:36:48 PM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on January 28, 2011, 04:04:19 PM
Now here's something interesting . . .

The rest is here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

Shades of Jimmah . . .

There are reports that the Egyptian people are welcoming the military being deployed.  Kinda like saviours.



Poor Israel, I don't think any of the political or high up Military will get much sleep in the next few weeks.

If Egypt falls and under the guise of democracy the radical Muslims get in, then the consequences will have us all scrambling for the Bible and reread the book of Revelations.

It is not inconceivable that Israel may be forced to put out a world wide call for all Jews to come home and protect their land.

From there when Christians realise that the fall of the Jews means they are next,  the Catholic Church will have no choice but to defend itself from the Muslims and perhaps for the first time in 2,000 years all of Christendom will unite to protect the Jews.  So OK, unlikely but possible.

So what do we do, let all hell break out and allow Egypt to fall as we want a democratic society for them controlled by the Muslims and Sharia Law.   Tough questions here.

Oh yes I forgot Egypt and Israel have no oil, Afghanistan has billions of dollars in Minerals and must be defended at all cost to the USA.

Cynical and Sarcastic , yes I am,   Hillery is scared shitless at standing up for our Allies and Obama is a Barnie Fife to anyone that says Boo to him.   :fuelfire:
   
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2011, 05:54:34 PM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on January 28, 2011, 04:04:19 PM
Now here's something interesting . . .

The rest is here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

Shades of Jimmah . . .

There are reports that the Egyptian people are welcoming the military being deployed.  Kinda like saviours.






I hpe that isn't true, but it is consistent with some of the stupider ideas G. W. Bush held with respect to just how much all the Moslems in the world were itching to become citizens of secular democracies. 
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Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2011, 06:18:41 PM »
Quote from: JohnnyReb on January 28, 2011, 09:14:50 AM
Not quite...they can't count on us for anything this time. They're on their own.

Hmmmm... I wonder.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/28/video-gibbs-tries-hard-to-say-nothing-meaningful-whatsoever-about-egypt/

Quote
In a secret diplomatic dispatch, sent on December 30 2008, Margaret Scobey, the US Ambassador to Cairo, recorded that opposition groups had allegedly drawn up secret plans for “regime change” (..........)

It said the activist claimed “several opposition forces” had “agreed to support an unwritten plan for a transition to a parliamentary democracy, involving a weakened presidency (........)

Ambassador Scobey questioned whether such an “unrealistic” plot could work, or ever even existed. However, the documents showed that the activist had been approached by US diplomats and received extensive support for his pro-democracy campaign from officials in Washington. 

Well, well, well....the Lightbringer and the unicorn herders are getting involved in a little regime change, eh?

When it's all said and done:

"We had to do it.  It was Bush's fault."

".....somehow."


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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Violent Clashes Mark Protests Against Mubarak’s Rule
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 12:20:01 AM »
Actually, on 30 December 2008, Bush still was the President.
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