Author Topic: So do the right wingers who feel Loughner was mentally disturbed, psychotic  (Read 5547 times)

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Offline AllosaursRus

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The other half of criminally insane is insane.

There are no cognizant, rational thoughts to drive his actions.

He is no more culpable than a mentally retarded person could be held liable for a mortgage or credit card payment.

He's diseased and putting him down has the same moral caliber as the remedy of the Goebbels/Stalin crowd.

To say, "but look what he did" doesn't count because he didn't do it. He has no thought/freewill in the matter. This is how his disease manifests itself.

I have actually sat across the table of a paranoid schizophrenic who regularly wandered into one of my restaurants muttering to herself. One day she sat at a table and was so agitated the waitress had to come get me. She accused me of being Bobby Kennedy hiding out through a CIA plot and she said she was determined to expose the truth. That's a scary ****ing moment when you realize you have a building full of people and someone so outfield that can't see the play yet they are determined to commit some act.

But as scared ass I was about her next action I can only imagine what hell it must of been to be locked inside her noggin where every waking moment is a matter of fear, doubt and anger. There is no joy, no choice between good or bad, no comfort; just unending torment. That is the very definition of hell, yet, more than likely no sin lead her there, she was overtaken by a bio-mechanical malfunction.

Now this Loughner ****--who should have been put away YEARS AGO--is not only living with those same demons he is being exploited by a bunch of politicizing shitbags. And yet, through it all, Loughner has no choice about anything even giving you the correct time of day unless the particular disease he has manifests in such a way as to allow him to do so.

So you're tellin' me he is to be excused? Sorry, there are those that have no place in civilized society. Just because he has an excuse, does not excuse him! We'll just tell him the electrodes that fry his ass are sending him to his happy place! He'd be better off and so would we!

What should we do with people like this? Straight jacket 'em and send them to the Hilton to be cared for by society for an eternity? Sorry, I just don't buy that. I'm out of money for liberal goody two shoes welfare!

Are we to suggest he can be cured and then we forgive him for killing people and let him loose into society again? I'll lay odds the father of the nine year old little girl might just have an objection! And what happens when a sane person takes revenge on misfits like this? Do we then give them the punishment we spared this asshole? Is not grief worthy of society's touchy feely forgiveness?

Bull shit! Put one behind his ear! I have to put horses down every once in a while to put them outa their and my misery! I'd feel worse shootin' a horse!

ETA:

Quote
The tragedy that has befallen the Green family is horrifying. I wouldn't be able to get off the floor if it had been my girl but Loughner does not live in this world, he does not process stimuli as we do, he cannot arrange facts, he cannot discern truth from falsehood, he cannot make any decision.

So he should now be society's burden? Where exactly do we draw the line? There are many out there that are relatively insane compared to most of society, yet they do not maim and kill in order to satisfy their insanity!

How 'bout we try to help those who will benefit instead of some all encompassing ideal we could never accomplish!

Put one behind his ear!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 03:26:42 PM by AllosaursRus »
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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So you're tellin' me he is to be excused? Sorry, there are those that have no place in civilized society. Just because he has an excuse, does not excuse him! We'll just tell him the electrodes that fry his ass are sending him to his happy place! He'd be better off and so would we!

What should we do with people like this? Straight jacket 'em and send them to the Hilton to be cared for by society for an eternity? Sorry, I just don't buy that. I'm out of money for liberal goody two shoes welfare!

Are we to suggest he can be cured and then we forgive him for killing people and let him loose into society again? I'll lay odds the father of the nine year old little girl might just have an objection! And what happens when a sane person takes revenge on misfits like this? Do we then give them the punishment we spared this asshole? Is not grief worthy of society's touchy feely forgiveness?

Bull shit! Put one behind his ear! I have to put horses down every once in a while to put them outa their and my misery! I'd feel worse shootin' a horse!

ETA:

So he should now be society's burden? Where exactly do we draw the line? There are many out there that are relatively insane compared to most of society, yet they do not maim and kill in order to satisfy their insanity!

How 'bout we try to help those who will benefit instead of some all encompassing ideal we could never accomplish!

Put one behind his ear!
Going from my arguing he is not morally culpable to give him a comfy pillow with a mint on it is quiet the leap.

This isn't about politics or revenge. It is a statement about how we as a civil society will treat the mentally insane.

I'm sorry if the manifestation of his particular disease was violent and that violent ended a young, beautiful life.

Loughner should never walk the streets again in the interests of everyone's safety but civilized people do not murder the hapless. It's why we have insanity defenses (blame the Christians). There really is a thing called insanity and not just pejorative sense we apply (correctly) to liberals as a breed. History has shown time and again that when societies start killing off the insane the mentally-handicapped and infirm tend to follow.

If you want vengeance take it to the so-called officials that had repeated warnings over the years and then fabricated excuses among themselves to do nothing. The same society that says we do not kill the insane and weak also says the insane should be removed from general society where they might do harm. IOW, we have laws and those laws were ignored/broken by people who were sane, competent and charged with upholding them.
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Offline seahorse513

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This is an article I picked up from Yahoo...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110111/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_the_gun

This guy looks creepy!!  This guy is showing no remorse for what he did.

He was rejected by the military for a failed drug test, He was kicked out of college. A former hs classmate even mentioned that he smoked pot

He had a history of criminal mischief, yet he was able to walk into a store and buy a gun... I guess Az is very laidback about their gun laws... :argh:
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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This is an article I picked up from Yahoo...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110111/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_the_gun

This guy looks creepy!!  This guy is showing no remorse for what he did.

He's not bio-chemically capable of remorse. He's in with the "I like red because it doesn't yell at me the way green does" crowd.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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I can't say I'm for executing the mentally ill.

Well, no, but I'm willing to make an exception for the incurably homicidal ones.
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Offline Randy

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He's not bio-chemically capable of remorse. He's in with the "I like red because it doesn't yell at me the way green does" crowd.


^5 for the best description I've read yet.

Offline Varokhâr

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So do the right wingers who feel Loughner was mentally disturbed, psychotic
   
think he should spend the rest of his days in a mental institution v a prison and death row?


What is this supposed to be, some kind of thinly-veiled attack on the death penalty? Us evil right wingers want to execute him, so naturally the better, more moral choice is to choose an institution.

I thought he was one of us, that our violent rhetoric was what inspired him? Now, we're wrong for wanting him to be executed (those of us that do, anyway)? Can't liberals get their nonsense straight?

Ah, well. Give him the noose or a firing squad and be done with it. Of course, he'll probably get room and board on our dime, instead.


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Offline Randy

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Well, no, but I'm willing to make an exception for the incurably homicidal ones.

Capital Punishment is for when society finds someones crime heinous enough that they should be removed forever from any contact with another human being.

He knew right from wrong. He posted before hand and called a friend and left a voicemail. He knew what he was going to do. The fact he's not talking to anyone means he knows now it was wrong too. He may be batshit crazy but he executed a well thought out plan.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Capital Punishment is for when society finds someones crime heinous enough that they should be removed forever from any contact with another human being.

True and that's why we don't execute crazy people, on the theory that they couldn't control their own actions, or aren't capable of assisting in their own defense (Actually different than insanity, that last thing is called competency).  However we do euthanize vicious dogs, who can't help what they are either, and in a justice system designed by yours truly, anyone just too frickin' homicidally dangerous to keep around and take a chance on them accidentally getting loose some day would get pretty short shrift, including ones our law treats as insane or incompetent now.
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Offline DefiantSix

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Sorry Snugs, but I have to disagree with you on this one. 

If this turd was mentally competent enough to buy a gun without making the guy behind the counter nervous and mentally competent enough to stalk his intended victim for 4 years without drawing the attention of federal law enforcement who would have done without hesitation what the shit for brains DUmpdik refused to do then this turd is mentally competent enough to pay the consequences for his actions. 

It's too bad Arizona doesn't hang slimebags any more, because a nice peaceful descent into sleepy sleep is too good for this guy.
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Offline dutch508

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So do the right wingers who feel Loughner was mentally disturbed, psychotic
   
think he should spend the rest of his days in a mental institution v a prison and death row?


What is this supposed to be, some kind of thinly-veiled attack on the death penalty? Us evil right wingers want to execute him, so naturally the better, more moral choice is to choose an institution.

I thought he was one of us, that our violent rhetoric was what inspired him? Now, we're wrong for wanting him to be executed (those of us that do, anyway)? Can't liberals get their nonsense straight?

Ah, well. Give him the noose or a firing squad and be done with it. Of course, he'll probably get room and board on our dime, instead.

bitchslapped for not having one. Good post, though.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Going from my arguing he is not morally culpable to give him a comfy pillow with a mint on it is quiet the leap.

This isn't about politics or revenge. It is a statement about how we as a civil society will treat the mentally insane.

I'm sorry if the manifestation of his particular disease was violent and that violent ended a young, beautiful life.

Loughner should never walk the streets again in the interests of everyone's safety but civilized people do not murder the hapless. It's why we have insanity defenses (blame the Christians). There really is a thing called insanity and not just pejorative sense we apply (correctly) to liberals as a breed. History has shown time and again that when societies start killing off the insane the mentally-handicapped and infirm tend to follow.

If you want vengeance take it to the so-called officials that had repeated warnings over the years and then fabricated excuses among themselves to do nothing. The same society that says we do not kill the insane and weak also says the insane should be removed from general society where they might do harm. IOW, we have laws and those laws were ignored/broken by people who were sane, competent and charged with upholding them.

So when we put other animals down to ease their suffering it's humane, but when we do it to a human it's murder?

I ain't buyin' that one either! When you take a life, and especially in this case, which by all accounts is premeditated, you pay the ultimate penalty! If you can premeditate a crime such as this, you're a whole lot more sane than you let on!

Hell when a grizz gets off the res and kills a human, in most cases it's because we have invaded their habitat, we sure as hell put them down as they have acquired a taste for human flesh. How is this any different?

He's not bio-chemically capable of remorse. He's in with the "I like red because it doesn't yell at me the way green does" crowd.

No he's not! He has set on his hatred for years apparently! I see no indication he was not a functioning adult. He might be a violent schizo, but he planned his crime just the same way a predator plans it's attack! You're tryin' to convince us he had no other recourse and didn't know the difference between right and wrong. That just ain't true! He knew it would be wrong to take a life! It wasn't a zombie that went in and purchased that gun. It was a man who convinced a clerk he was sane.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 12:47:15 AM by AllosaursRus »
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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So when we put other animals down to ease their suffering it's humane, but when we do it to a human it's murder?

I ain't buyin' that one either! When you take a life, and especially in this case, which by all accounts is premeditated, you pay the ultimate penalty! If you can premeditate a crime such as this, you're a whole lot more sane than you let on!

Hell when a grizz gets off the res and kills a human, in most cases it's because we have invaded their habitat, we sure as hell put them down as they have acquired a taste for human flesh. How is this any different?

No he's not! He has set on his hatred for years apparently! I see no indication he was not a functioning adult. He might be a violent schizo, but he planned his crime just the same way a predator plans it's attack! You're tryin' to convince us he had no other recourse and didn't know the difference between right and wrong. That just ain't true! He knew it would be wrong to take a life! It wasn't a zombie that went in and purchased that gun. It was a man who convinced a clerk he was sane.

I wholly support the death penalty for premeditated crimes of particularly heinous natures, even crimes that currently do not carry such a penalty, i.e. kidnappers and pedos.

But therein lies the distinction. Someone who premeditates has deliberated on a course of action and those deliberations include "should I or shouldn't I" conversations in their heads. Loughner may have contemplated "how should I" but he was not capable of any other course of action. Perhaps that lowers him to the mental status of a rabid wolf but somewhere in there remains a human being locked into a mind it has no control over. That is the definition of insanity

The mentally retarded have the faculties of an animal as well. Jews and slaves were legislated to the status of animals.

Set aside your passions just long enough to carefully deliberate about the form and function of the government you would set to rule people's lives...

...unless passions hold greater sway over you than deliberation...



But then, you'd be no better than an animal.
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Offline vesta111

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I wholly support the death penalty for premeditated crimes of particularly heinous natures, even crimes that currently do not carry such a penalty, i.e. kidnappers and pedos.

But therein lies the distinction. Someone who premeditates has deliberated on a course of action and those deliberations include "should I or shouldn't I" conversations in their heads. Loughner may have contemplated "how should I" but he was not capable of any other course of action. Perhaps that lowers him to the mental status of a rabid wolf but somewhere in there remains a human being locked into a mind it has no control over. That is the definition of insanity

The mentally retarded have the faculties of an animal as well. Jews and slaves were legislated to the status of animals.

Set aside your passions just long enough to carefully deliberate about the form and function of the government you would set to rule people's lives...

...unless passions hold greater sway over you than deliberation...



But then, you'd be no better than an animal.

I have been reading your posts SGT and find they have brought more questions then answers.

Who is to decide that any person is or will become a problem to society.??  Signs of instability in our youth can take many twists and turns. Those that call in bomb threats for amusement are much different then those of someone their age torturing animals.

The Sheriff said that they have proof this man had issued death threats lately to people in the community.--Why was he not picked up and held for that crime.?

People do slip through the cracks when their family has some influence and some kind of civilian politics comes in here.

So who would have been a good mental health Doctor to treat people like him, the Doctor that blew away our military yelling Allah Akbar.??-----The husband and wife team both Doctors that treated the children of the Hollywood stars for mental health problems that were arrested for chaining their 16 year old to her bed as they could not handle her.??

Take this and reverse it, parents with a child that has been diagnosed as Autistic and face a life time of caring for a child-Adult that has some kind of mind thought--different from the norm.

 One day this child or adult finds something that fascinates them, a musical instrument or a broken clock.  Out of no where the child learns to play the Piano or be able to fix anything and every thing that is mechanical in nature.

Don't forget Saint Francis of Aussie that went from a cruel monster to become the the protector of Animals.

Question, who is to decide on mental health when half the experts are themselves a bit titched.??

Who can tell, that wonderful child, male and female that change over time a slow progress and turn into monsters.  Parents are the first to deny their kids are different until they see them in prison for life--then the parents blame themselves.  Their miss placed guilt causes them to enable the child that leads to the child-adult committing even worse activities.

You raise questions SGT, next question is how and who is to decide that any human may, simply by their thoughts cause havoc, darn sounds like the thought police should be called in to question why a 5 year old boy cuts off the heads of their sisters dolls.

About all we can do is to take EVERYONE reguardless of their mental differences and punish them for anti society acts. 



Offline Varokhâr

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bitchslapped for not having one. Good post, though.

Hey, I've got rope and the wife and I together have enough rifles for a squad. I'm sure we could work out something :D


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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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I have been reading your posts SGT and find they have brought more questions then answers.

Who is to decide that any person is or will become a problem to society.??  Signs of instability in our youth can take many twists and turns. Those that call in bomb threats for amusement are much different then those of someone their age torturing animals...

That is why we have the system we do.

We have elected reps congregate to decide what laws we set above ourselves and what threshholds are set for intervention by the state.

We have elected reps serve as executives of the enforcement of those laws.

We have judges that oversee the trials and ensure the aruments and evidence confrom to the law.

We have citizen juries weigh the evidence.

We have opposing counsel represent the accused.

We ensure humane treatment upon the rendering of the verdicts.

We provide a system of on-going reassessment.

We provide opportunities for appeal.


That entire process is built upon the duelling concepts of the need for public safety coupled with self-doubt gained from the history of humanity's on-going abuses of power.

On the flip-side of that we have what appears to be glaring cases of malfeasance and dereliction of duty by sheriff D.U.pnik.

But then, we have made malfeasance and dereliction of duty punishable offenses.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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But then, you'd be no better than an animal.

Like we're going to take the word of a rabbit on that one.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Like we're going to take the word of a rabbit on that one.
Everyone understands that rabbits are the higher evolved species.

That we permit human cohabitation simply bespeaks our beneficience.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Higher.

 :stoner:

Well, there may be something to that after all, I guess.

 :-)
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline vesta111

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That is why we have the system we do.

We have elected reps congregate to decide what laws we set above ourselves and what threshholds are set for intervention by the state.

We have elected reps serve as executives of the enforcement of those laws.

We have judges that oversee the trials and ensure the aruments and evidence confrom to the law.

We have citizen juries weigh the evidence.

We have opposing counsel represent the accused.

We ensure humane treatment upon the rendering of the verdicts.

We provide a system of on-going reassessment.

We provide opportunities for appeal.


That entire process is built upon the duelling concepts of the need for public safety coupled with self-doubt gained from the history of humanity's on-going abuses of power.

On the flip-side of that we have what appears to be glaring cases of malfeasance and dereliction of duty by sheriff D.U.pnik.

But then, we have made malfeasance and dereliction of duty punishable offenses.

Thank you STG.  this becomes very complicated here in how this man will get a fair trial now.  Will he plea bargain for life imprisonment to avoid a death penalty.??  Will this incidence cause States that do not have a death penalty now rethink the laws and want to change them?

Then the awful question, had this man not shot a Judge or State Rep. would all else he killed and wounded be on page 3 of the papers yesterday.?  We didn't get all this crazy stuff when Regan was shot. 

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Thank you STG...

Dear Dog in Heaven, she can't even spell SGT correctly.
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Offline Randy

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Dear Dog in Heaven, she can't even spell SGT correctly.

Surprised?

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Surprised?
If you ever had a heart-attack in front of her she would probably administer PRC
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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If you ever had a heart-attack in front of her she would probably administer PRC

And here I was gonna congratulate you on your promotion to Sturmgewehr...or Special Tazer Guy...or Sexually Transmitting Goober...or something...

 :rotf:
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Everyone understands that rabbits are the higher evolved species.

That we permit human cohabitation simply bespeaks our beneficience.

Whata ya mean evolved? Ya don't even have yer own taste fer cryin' out loud!

Tastes like chicken is not exactly what I want to be remembered for. Lol!
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