Author Topic: In these tough and troubling times, why are government contractors allowed a pro (Read 3577 times)

Freeper · « **on:** January 03, 2011, 06:50:18 PM »

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-03-11 04:10 PM
Original message
In these tough and troubling times, why are government contractors allowed a profit?

Edited on Mon Jan-03-11 04:50 PM by hootinholler
Wouldn't it be their patriotic duty to only charge enough to cover the employee salaries and office overhead?

We need to make the defense industry non-profit as the patriotic duty of the company involved. This will stimulate the business to seek profit in other sectors, hopefully with needed products. Until the profit is removed, or well diminished, I fear we have no hope to rein in the MIC.

Just thinking...

-Hoot

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x110203

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-03-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Makes sense as long as govt. absorbs contractor losses. Better yet, just have govt. nationalize all

businesses and run them like other govt. organizations, e.g. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Not sure if that snark or not but, that view does reflect most of DU.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-03-11 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. In troubled times, we learn who is really in charge.

Government contractors are coddled while our social programs are attacked, one after the other.

Why haven't you move to Chavez land anyway?

true_blood · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2011, 06:58:41 PM »

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-03-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Makes sense as long as govt. absorbs contractor losses. Better yet, just have govt. nationalize all businesses and run them like other govt. organizations, e.g. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

That sounds like a great idea. Only on the DUmp can you come up with answers like that.
Wow.

Boudicca · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:00:17 PM »

Quote from: Freeper on January 03, 2011, 06:50:18 PM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x110203

Not sure if that snark or not but, that view does reflect most of DU.

Why haven't you move to Chavez land anyway?

Better yet, take a long, leisurely stroll through the desert surrounding your mom's trailer.
Do forget to write.

Rebel · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:02:15 PM »

DAMN! Am I on DU?

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-03-11 05:01 PM

Response to Reply #4

10. What losses?

I can't count how many times I've heard budget over-run in connection with the development of new military hardware.

I have no desire to nationalize any business, unless it is to dissolve a monopoly.

-Hoot

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-03-11 05:11 PM

Response to Reply #4

13. Oh yeah, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are great examples.

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-03-11 05:54 PM

Response to Reply #4

17. Perfect. That would put us one step closer to having some government hack decide who works in what

field based on genetic makeup just like you said in another thread.

"...one is assigned possible careers at birth because one's genes contribute to IQ..."

I hope I'm dead before the world you wish to see comes to fruition.

thundley4 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:11:36 PM »

Pretty sure that most government contracts are held by companies that are unionized.

debk · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:23:05 PM »

Quote from: thundley4 on January 03, 2011, 07:11:36 PM

Pretty sure that most government contracts are held by companies that are unionized.

I think it depends on the state where the company is located.

We have a good friend that is a DOD contractor. He has one location here in Oak Ridge and another in Florida. He does not have a union shop in either place.

His company made "stuff" that helped Reagan convince the Russians to end the Cold War.

GOBUCKS · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:23:38 PM »

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-03-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Makes sense as long as govt. absorbs contractor losses. Better yet, just have govt. nationalize all

businesses and run them like other govt. organizations, e.g. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Without doubt, a Lousy Freeper Troll.

thundley4 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:43:51 PM »

Quote from: debk on January 03, 2011, 07:23:05 PM

I think it depends on the state where the company is located.

We have a good friend that is a DOD contractor. He has one location here in Oak Ridge and another in Florida. He does not have a union shop in either place.

His company made "stuff" that helped Reagan convince the Russians to end the Cold War.

That may be true for states, but didn't the Obama Misadministration change some policies benefiting union companies for government contracts? Most states that aren't right to work states do have prevailing wage laws for their contracts.

jukin · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:46:51 PM »

There truly are the least experienced, most ignorant people (& I use that term loosely) on earth.

Vagabond · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM »

Okay as a defense contractor...

WTF? Do these DUmmies know anything? No, government and defense contractor jobs are not nice and safe, even in good times. Unlike the DUmmies, we have schedules to meet, schedules and quality to maintain and improve, and goals to achieve. If we don't do that, we don't get that next contract coming down the line. If we don't get that contract, we'd better be hoping someone out there has a need for the work we do. For a hint to the DUmmies...most everything us evil war profiteering contractors provide, service or product, we do it cheaper than Uncle Sam can do it or we don't get the work.

If the work is damned easy, why don't they switch with me? Then again I can't stand the thought of sitting around in my underwear and blaming someone else for my failures all day, so forget it.

/rantoff.

Vagabond · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2011, 08:06:37 PM »

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-03-11 05:01 PM

Response to Reply #4

10. What losses?

I can't count how many times I've heard budget over-run in connection with the development of new military hardware.

I have no desire to nationalize any business, unless it is to dissolve a monopoly.

-Hoot

You want to know where a lot of those cost and schedule over runs come from? Check this out, it actually happened...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyakI9GeYRs&feature=related[/youtube]

VivisMom · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:03:06 AM »

Quote from: Vagabond on January 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM

Okay as a defense contractor...

WTF? Do these DUmmies know anything? No, government and defense contractor jobs are not nice and safe, even in good times. Unlike the DUmmies, we have schedules to meet, schedules and quality to maintain and improve, and goals to achieve. If we don't do that, we don't get that next contract coming down the line. If we don't get that contract, we'd better be hoping someone out there has a need for the work we do. For a hint to the DUmmies...most everything us evil war profiteering contractors provide, service or product, we do it cheaper than Uncle Sam can do it or we don't get the work.

If the work is damned easy, why don't they switch with me? Then again I can't stand the thought of sitting around in my underwear and blaming someone else for my failures all day, so forget it.

/rantoff.

I know, right? My husband is a contractor for the government, and his job is not 'safe' by a long shot! He has projects he works on, but if one of those projects loses funding, he has to find another project to work on BY HIMSELF or risk losing his job. They don't have money randomly floating around that they can use to pay people to fart around on the job. The money is carefully budgeted and parceled out because they have to account for it to Uncle Sam.

When I read shit like this, I really wish stupid were painful.

txradioguy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:07:55 AM »

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-03-11 05:54 PM

Response to Reply #4

17. Perfect. That would put us one step closer to having some government hack decide who works in what

field based on genetic makeup just like you said in another thread.

"...one is assigned possible careers at birth because one's genes contribute to IQ..."

I hope I'm dead before the world you wish to see comes to fruition.

Blind squirrel...nut...you know the rest.

JohnnyReb · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:10:07 AM »

In these tough and troubling times, why are government tit suckers allowed a welfare check, disability check, foodstamps, free housing, free healthcare, free cell phones.........

debk · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:08:37 AM »

Quote from: Vagabond on January 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM

Okay as a defense contractor...

WTF? Do these DUmmies know anything? No, government and defense contractor jobs are not nice and safe, even in good times. Unlike the DUmmies, we have schedules to meet, schedules and quality to maintain and improve, and goals to achieve. If we don't do that, we don't get that next contract coming down the line. If we don't get that contract, we'd better be hoping someone out there has a need for the work we do. For a hint to the DUmmies...most everything us evil war profiteering contractors provide, service or product, we do it cheaper than Uncle Sam can do it or we don't get the work.

If the work is damned easy, why don't they switch with me? Then again I can't stand the thought of sitting around in my underwear and blaming someone else for my failures all day, so forget it.

/rantoff.

Don't know how it works for you, but our friend doesn't get paid for his product until it's completed, delivered and approved. The funding for the product is all on him.

Like I'm sure you have to do, he bids on the product, if his bid is good - that means cheaper than everybody else - he gets it, provided he meets all other production criteria. There does seems to be an long time between being told the work is coming, and actually getting the work orders. Makes it difficult to schedule and even more so, to keep employees working, not standing around and getting paid while waiting for the work orders to show up.

JohnnyReb · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:15:01 AM »

Just want to throw in my dimes worth of experience with government jobs...they're slow to pay and hold 10% of the amount sometimes for years.

njpines · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2011, 09:19:24 AM »

Quote from: thundley4 on January 03, 2011, 07:11:36 PM

Pretty sure that most government contracts are held by companies that are unionized.

I work for a very large company that has numerous gov't contracts, mostly military -- no unions here (yay!)

DumbAss Tanker · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2011, 09:55:30 AM »

There's a good side and a bad side to government contracting, like anything else in the real world. The biggest valid reason the government uses it is so they don't take on people for a whole civil service career just to do a project that's going to take six months or two years or ten years, or even indefinite but it'll still be cheaper and more flexible to do with contract labor.

After all, you can change the mix of skills and positions overnight with a contractor, instead of a year of lead time and retraining with civil service, and the government doesn't end up with the back-end legacy costs of retirement, benefits, etc. or the front-end HR costs of managing the workers.

Which all means HELL NO they aren't secure jobs. And, in defense of the contractors, the Federal government can be an arbitrary and unnecessarily demanding master in ways that no private sector organization could get away with in a million years.

jukin · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:24:50 PM »

Not sure if I posted this here. Found on a thread on Yahoo. I want this guy in charge.

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Put me in charge ...

Put me in charge of food stamps. Id get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Hos, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing Id do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal legations. Then, well test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your home will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition you need to work for entitlements. You will either present a check stub from a job each week (and a drug test) or you will report to a government job (and take a drug test). It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, serve or cook soup in a soup kitchen or whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the common good.

Before you write that Iâ€™ve violated someoneâ€™s rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before you say that this would be demeaning and ruin their self-esteem, consider that it wasnâ€™t that long ago that taking someone elseâ€™s money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other peoples mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards people for continuing to make bad choices.

More and more people that are working and paying ever increasing taxes with fewer services they use are coming around to this POV.

AllosaursRus · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:49:15 PM »

Quote from: thundley4 on January 03, 2011, 07:43:51 PM

That may be true for states, but didn't the Obama Misadministration change some policies benefiting union companies for government contracts? Most states that aren't right to work states do have prevailing wage laws for their contracts.

Yep! When I worked "Davis Bacon" jobs, I got union scale and and the equivalent coin put into my 401 for the bennies! Kinda defeats the purpose of "Right to Work", don't it?

vesta111 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:05:15 PM »

Quote from: AllosaursRus on January 04, 2011, 01:49:15 PM

Yep! When I worked "Davis Bacon" jobs, I got union scale and and the equivalent coin put into my 401 for the bennies! Kinda defeats the purpose of "Right to Work", don't it?

I worked for a very small time Government contractor and saw how things work. We repaired water tight doors, hatches and scuttles and did AB rip offs and installed new lagging. I was not an office worker I was part of the labor team.

HAAAAA I quit before I was put in jail for knowing just how this small company was ripping off the Navy. A long time ago and things may have changed.

Vagabond · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:59:18 PM »

I don't want any misunderstanding. I enjoy my work. It is challenging and varied enough to hold my interest, and my company encourages us to have diversified skill sets. I started as an Electronics Tech, then went in to project management and learned a lot about the big picture, then learned a lot about computer networking the hard way, then went off on projects as the IT guy, then took that oppurtunity to go to Iraq for a year (A soldier shook my hand and said my gear saved his buddies lives. That was worth more than the pay to me.)

I couldn't have done that as a GS employee. I don't have a degree yet.

I don't encounter many democrats in my field. The one I remember played inappropriate rap music so loud I could hear it at the other end of the building and was frequently asleep in the tool room. They finally popped him for pot on a urinalysis.

AllosaursRus · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2011, 12:13:29 AM »

Quote from: Vagabond on January 03, 2011, 08:06:37 PM

You want to know where a lot of those cost and schedule over runs come from? Check this out, it actually happened...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyakI9GeYRs&feature=related[/youtube]

Yeah, I know! How much money did we waste before they scrapped the damn thing?

Billions, think billions!

We finally ended up with the Stryker, thank God!

Chris_ · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2011, 02:31:48 AM »

Why are private corporations (those greedy bastards) allowed to run businesses that compete with government businesses?
Fed Ex and UPS ought to be nationalized! Pay them all minimum wage! Charge the same as the Post Office!
(Never, ever get anything in a timely manner again)

Randy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2011, 03:53:33 AM »

Fed-Ex does the heavy hauling work for Priority Mail, it's the only reason it gets there on time.

News:

Author Topic: In these tough and troubling times, why are government contractors allowed a pro (Read 3577 times)