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Author Topic: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?  (Read 2121 times)

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Offline Splashdown

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Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« on: December 26, 2010, 01:34:13 PM »
My brother gave me the greatest present: a sword my uncle brought back from the Pacific Theater in WWII. I immediately thought "katana", but it isn't. I'm a sword guy; I have some martial arts weaponry training. I'd call it a saber. It's got a single edge, single tang and has a pretty good curve to it. He did some web research and thinks it's a German NCO's sword. It's the real deal: carbon steel, edged, and the metal scabbard is dented. It's seThereen some action definitely.

Both sword and scabbard have the mark

42. A.A.82

There's some sort of maker's mark on the back of the saber by the hilt.

Can anyone help?
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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2010, 03:25:01 PM »
Hard to say but one thing you have to know is that alotof Japanese sowrds do not have the angled edged tip that many people associate with Katanas. Some of them in fact have the tip shaped like you describe and also you should know that depending on when and how it was made it could be worth as little as 200-300 bucks .
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2010, 03:34:03 PM »
Quote from: Airwolf on December 26, 2010, 03:25:01 PM
Hard to say but one thing you have to know is that alotof Japanese sowrds do not have the angled edged tip that many people associate with Katanas. Some of them in fact have the tip shaped like you describe and also you should know that depending on when and how it was made it could be worth as little as 200-300 bucks .

I'm not really worried about the worth, as I'm keeping it for sentimental--and zombie apocalypse--reasons. I'm pretty sure it'd be European because of the Western-style letters used as the serial numbers. No kanji anywhere to be found.

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Offline Thor

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 09:49:27 AM »
A picture would help..........
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 10:14:26 AM »
 :picsneeded:

Seriously it's kind of hard to feature how a German NCO sword would be a bring-back from the Pacific...not impossible, just very strange if true.  There were of course Commonwealth, Dutch, and French colonial forces in the areas overrun by the Japanese, which could have been the source of a western-made and proofed saber if it was captured from those forces and then reissued by the Japanese.  Also the Chinese used a lot of German-supplied gear up until the Tokyo-Rome-Berlin Axis was formed, after which the Germans cut them off, though it's kind of hard to see why the Chinese would have bought ceremonial cutlery instead of real modern weapons in any of those deals.     
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 12:09:20 PM »


Sorry about the size of the pic... Don't quite know how to resize it.
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 12:12:08 PM »
Might be "imperial German," because I don't see any markings that would make it specific to the Third Reich. No swastikas, etc.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 12:55:34 PM »
Quote from: Splashdown on December 27, 2010, 12:12:08 PM
Might be "imperial German," because I don't see any markings that would make it specific to the Third Reich. No swastikas, etc.

AHA, See I told you guys the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.   :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
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Offline Thor

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 12:56:38 PM »
I don't recall reading about any Nazi Germans in the Pacific theater..... which is why I find it difficult to believe that it's German. Can you get a pic of the maker's mark ??
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 01:14:45 PM »
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2010, 01:15:51 PM »
Looks like it is worth $800.   Nice find.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 01:16:53 PM »
Both Dutch and German swords have a very similar guard and grip shape from what I could find, however that tab in the middle of the grip is very much a feature of German ones, not found on the pics of Dutch swords I could find.

However, that shield-shaped tab that slips over the outside of the scabbard would not be round-bottomed on a German Army sword, more of a five-sided home-plate shaped piece bearing a Reich eagle and swastika of typical Nazi form (Reichsadler), with the downard point of the swastika filling the point of the shield; the eagle and swastika look to be cast onto the metal of the guard at time of making for an Army sword, and they appear to have painted or lacquered scabbards.

There is a very similar, simpler type of German sword which was for the mining organization (And there were commercial German interests and consultants in China pre-war), and swords of the German mining organization have the same round-bottomed shape on that tab as the one you have.  The scabbard for them even appears to be bare metal instead of black lacquer (Or enamel?) found on the Army swords.  As far as I can see the main difference from yours and a miner's professional sword is that there would be crossed hammers on that shield for a miners sword - however those appear to be added details, not cast in like the Reichsadler on an Army sword, and it's possible they got knocked off at some point.

All in all a German miner's sword from the Pacific is still about as unlikely as a German Army NCO sword.  They did lose their colony at Tsingtao and other Far East holdings to Japan's highly-opportunistic entry into WWI, so probably got a certain amount of gear like this to warehouse then, but I don't know how closely Imperial German swords matched up on the form with Third Reich ones...the Nazis were kind of uneven on whether they incorporated traditional ceremonial gear or came up with something completely Nazi.

Recommend you check this site out for some pics and info:   
http://germanswordbuyer.com
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Offline Thor

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 01:19:42 PM »
On this forum I found, it shows one very similar.

http://swordforum.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=95576

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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2010, 01:52:58 PM »
During the Second World War the Germans sent ships and subs to Japan on a few occasions. So its not entirely impossible for then to have exchanged things then but in this instance from what the others have said it appears to be older.
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2010, 03:56:34 PM »
No maker's mark under the pommel. There's one on the back of the blade by the crossguard.

There must have been a great story to go along with the sword found in the South Pacific, but I'll never know it. My uncle never talked about his time in the war; neither did my father.
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Offline Mike220

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2010, 04:17:09 PM »
Making a completely off the wall SWAG, but since I don't see any swastikas (and G-d knows the Nazis were swastika happy), I would say the sword is WWI or earlier vintage. The Germans had a large cruiser squadron (East Asia Squadron) based at Tsingtao in China prior to the outbreak of WWI. So there's alot of opportunities for some poor junior officer to hock his sword to pay debts, get booze money, etc. Then of course, some Japanese soldier could have found it while Japan was doing its thing in China in the 1930s-40s.

Alternatively, the Japanese and Germans were two of the nations that sent troops to the Boxer rebellion, and like many sailors, a guy could have traded his sword for some souvenir from a Japanese soldier/sailor.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Any experts in WWII edged weapons on the board?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 07:51:28 AM »
Quote from: Splashdown on December 27, 2010, 03:56:34 PM
No maker's mark under the pommel. There's one on the back of the blade by the crossguard.

There must have been a great story to go along with the sword found in the South Pacific, but I'll never know it. My uncle never talked about his time in the war; neither did my father.

My step-dad was stationed in Hawaii either during or shortly after Pearl Harbor (according to his DD214) He never talked much about it, either. He was an Aviation Machinist's Mate and USN. (Navy airplane mechanic)
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"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson
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