questionable primitive alleges car batteries dying too soon

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=310x724

Oh my.

The questionable primitive is quoting from the Wall Street Journal, circa March 2007:

question everything  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-14-07 09:43 PM
Original message

Why Car Batteries Are Dying Young

Plethora of Gadgets, Chargers, Onboard Systems Sap Power; Beware the Killer Cup Warmer

A steady increase in the number of electrical accessories in the average car is shortening battery life. As vehicles are now being designed to operate more systems, they still use the same basic type of 12-volt battery that has been in use for decades.

In the past decade or so cars have evolved from basic transportation to something resembling dens, kitchens and offices on wheels, with everything from DVD screens, subwoofer sound systems and mood lighting to built-in refrigerators and cup holders that heat coffee and cool soft drinks. The automotive aftermarket also offers an ever-growing range of gadgets that help multitasking drivers and passengers talk, eat, find their way around and get their work done on the road.

For consumers, the proliferation of onboard electronics means increased comfort, convenience, efficiency and safety in the form of computerized engine controls, tire-pressure sensors, and powerful navigation and entertainment systems. The downside: All these power-sapping accessories -- coupled with vehicles' increasingly complex networks of electronic-ignition systems, pollution-control devices, security systems and display screens -- could be helping to drive up the death rate for car batteries.

Even parked cars are using more juice than they used to. It isn't that owners are simply forgetting to turn off the headlights, or leaving their cellphones charging overnight. There are many electronic devices in today's vehicles that continue to draw power even after the ignition is turned off. Electric fans under the hood may run for several minutes after a vehicle is turned off to cool the engine. And navigation, engine-management and diagnostic systems need power to maintain memory and can slowly discharge a battery to where it cannot easily be recharged simply by running the car.

Sales of replacement batteries -- which range from $50 to $200 -- jumped 13% to 67.7 million in 2006, compared with 59.9 million a year earlier and an average of about 54 million a year for the previous 10 years, according to data from Industry MR, a research firm in Oak Brook, Ill. A spokesman for the firm says there are other factors that contribute to the jump in battery replacement. For one, people are keeping their cars longer, and the frequency of battery replacement tends to increase in cars that are more than five years old.

benEzra  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Thu Mar-15-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message

1. I wonder if the quality of low-end mass-merchant batteries is also declining...thereby shortening battery life to some extent.

I've learned the hard way never to skimp on the battery; you definitely get what you pay for in that regard. I put a cheap Wal-Mart basic battery in a vehicle once, and won't make that mistake again.

My preference is Sears Diehard, but I've also had good luck with auto-parts-store batteries, as long as I get one of the more expensive ones.

Gregorian  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Thu May-17-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message

2. I believe I know the answer.
   
The plates in the typical automobile quality batteries are made of a spongy lead. I've heard that commercial batteries are made of solid lead plates. Not spongy lead.

I have a commercial truck. The battery on that truck has run completely dead for literally a year at a time. As it stands, that battery was put in that truck back in 1992. I can charge it up and it works as if it were new.

My guess is that as we produce more and more cars and batteries, the sponge aspect of the lead plates has become more like the candy bars we get versus the ones we got back in 1960. I mean, there's less of it.

Just let a car battery sit on a zero charge for a year. It'll be deader than a door nail.

I can go a bit further on this theory. Sulphating is what kills batteries. It is a buildup that ends up eventually shorting the plates. A solid plate has much less surface area for sulphates to build up.

At any rate, I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong. I don't recall where I got my source of info on truck batteries.

herbster  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-17-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message

3. The Panasonic in my Land Cruiser lasted almost 9 years
   
It was made in Japan and came as original equipment in my 1995 Land Cruiser. When I decided to replace it I tried to find another one, but apparently they don't import them to the US.

[Bondai]

In Arizona it's the heat that kills them. The blistering summer heat is really tough on batteries. If you get one that lasts 2 or 3 years consider yourself lucky. The really expensive ones are a little better. The gel batteries are suppose to be really good but they go for $200.00+.

[Lacarnut]

The OEM battery in my Nissan lasted 4 1/2 years. It did not die but I figured I was living on borrowed time so I went ahead and had the dealer change it. 

[Chris_]

^This is true, but it is also true that the increased load caused by all of the additional gadgets is causing the size of alternators to increase, along with the charging rates.....increasing the charging rate increases the temperature of the battery regardless of its environment, and therefore shortens its life.

US auto manufacturers are experimenting with 36 and 48 volt electrical systems for our vehicles which will eliminate this problem......

doc

[Randy]

Poor Poor benezra. DUmmy still thinks Diehards are a quality battery. Sears gave up on quality back in the late 80's and went cheap to keep up their warranty. Interstate used to make them for Sears and quit due to the specs being scaled back to the point of embarrassment. The quality sucked through the 90's and if anyone really thinks Kmart went back to the pervious quality standards needs to make a trip to Kmart and look around.

[Carl]

It has been my experience with batteries over the years is sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a bad one.

When I was at NAPA Exide was the manufacturer and they swore that on the old batteries returned the lead reclaimed was only used for the top terminals or for cables,never as plates inside the battery.
I wonder though.

[RobJohnson]

DieHard batteries are junk.

Exide made junk for alot of years.

Interstate batteries were always good.

I used to buy a economy battery from Batteries Plus for used cars on the lot....my cost was about $26...they were not "blems" but did not even have the "Batteries Plus" logo on them...they used some other name so it looked more like an OEM battery, plus the local battery store did not want people showing up looking for warranty, as they did not have much of a warranty to us other then they would hold a charge for a year.

They seemed to be pretty good and I bought one for an old pick up truck I had, it lasted for years.

Here in the midwest the batteries usually start to go bad in the summer, then fail in the winter, as they just don't have enough amps to turn over that cold motor full of thick cold oil.

Never leave your battery dead in the winter time....it could freeze and then you will need a new one.

[franksolich]

DieHard batteries are junk.

Exide made junk for alot of years.

Interstate batteries were always good.

I used to buy a economy battery from Batteries Plus for used cars on the lot....my cost was about $26...they were not "blems" but did not even have the "Batteries Plus" logo on them...they used some other name so it looked more like an OEM battery, plus the local battery store did not want people showing up looking for warranty, as they did not have much of a warranty to us other then they would hold a charge for a year.

They seemed to be pretty good and I bought one for an old pick up truck I had, it lasted for years.

Here in the midwest the batteries usually start to go bad in the summer, then fail in the winter, as they just don't have enough amps to turn over that cold motor full of thick cold oil.

Never leave your battery dead in the winter time....it could freeze and then you will need a new one.

Or, as you know, sir, check for wobbly posts.

(To those not in the know, my experience, not Rob's; but Rob knows of it.)