Author Topic: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal  (Read 2159 times)

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« on: December 12, 2010, 11:48:19 AM »
I was watching the Fox Business pundits late last night.  I have to say I was astounded by the lengths not just the normal assortment of Dem PR flacks, but most of the normally-relatively-rational people like Cavuto, were going to give blowjobs to the genius of Obama and bow at the altar over the as-yet-uncompleted tax deal.  The shallowness of reasoning apparent across the spectrum was shocking.

First, this is the ONLY thing he has compromised on in two frickin' years.  Aside from favors from asylum runaways like Collins and Snowe, EVERY other 'Compromise' so far was just settling factional squabbles within his own damn' Party, and therefore ultimately handled by Reid or Pelosi, not him.  Hailing him for a genius move now is like calling a Colts-Redskins game for the Redskins at the half with the Colts up by 14, just because the Redskins finally completed a first down.

Jesus, people.  Get a grip!  ONE agreement, on which he hasn't ceased namecalling and kvetching yet, is NOT a trend, it is NOT triangulation, it is NOT a sudden astute move of his whole agenda to the center to play for the independents.  Journalists are always dying to ram current events into a paradigm from living memory, and their predictive ability therefore blows.  For instance, EVERY military expeditionary event since 1970 has caused the literati to trot out inapt comparisons to Viet Nam.  How useful, instructive, or predictive has any of that been?  That's right, it's garbage. 

Those who ignore history may be doomed to repeat it, but those who seek to ram everything in the framework of any particular historical event with only names changed is doomed to be dead wrong about the outcome.

Second, the numbers being played with are total bullshit to boot.  I swear some of the pundits said BOTH that it's 850-whatever-billion increase to the deficit AND avoiding the biggest tax hike in U.S. history out of the same mouth.  Craptastic drivel!  First, the number for increase to the deficit is based not only on the assumption that the demand for revenue (Spending) continues to grow unabated (May well happen), but also that the reduction in taxes will have NO effect on gross revenue (Which I'm sure the Democrats believe, but the Fiscal Conservatives were spouting the same line, which should be at odds with their whole basis for wanting the damned cuts).

Third, neither side is right. 

The Dems are just class warring.  They have no rational explanation for why increasing taxes on a $300,000 income is good, while increasing taxes on a $200,000 income is bad.  Their position has everything to do with vote-whoring and NOTHING to do with any kind of rational economics.

The GOP, ah the GOP.  A lot of what they are saying about the tax deal is BS too, except for the insiders who get special pork deliveries in the deal-making, this is NOT going to deliver on the economic end to anywyhere near the extent they're touting it -

1.  The idea that current tax rates are going to be renewed for the short term is pretty well already discounted in share prices at this point and it shouldn't have any earthquake effect on the markets, of course the additional certainty of an actual bill would move it a bit higher as the more-cautious process it.   

2.  Ten years is like a geological epoch in business, a 'Temporary' tax change that expires in ten years puts the expiration so far away that hiring increases greatly because the time until the bad rates return is longer than 90% of the employees are going to be on board anyway.  Two years, though, is NOT a long time, by the time any deal is closed in Congress and implemented, and with all the demogoguery of the next campaign only a year away, you're really looking at an employment window of a year to 18 months, which screams 'Temps' or 'Subcontractors,' NOT 'Hire permanent employees.'  Its effect on unemployment rates will be a lot more modest than the proponents are claiming due to the basic flaw of the very limited duration of the rate change.

 :argh:

End of rant.  I could be 100% wrong.  We'll see.
   

 
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Offline franksolich

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2010, 12:01:39 PM »
Good one, sir.

This is why it's important to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

And to cut them even more.
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Offline ColonialMarine0431

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2010, 12:51:50 PM »
Quote
but most of the normally-relatively-rational people like Cavuto, were going to give blowjobs to the genius of Obama and bow at the altar over the as-yet-uncompleted tax deal.


Even Cavuto? Sheesh. That's scarry.  :o
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Offline Doc

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2010, 01:27:40 PM »
Well.....

Quote
2.  Ten years is like a geological epoch in business, a 'Temporary' tax change that expires in ten years puts the expiration so far away that hiring increases greatly because the time until the bad rates return is longer than 90% of the employees are going to be on board anyway.  Two years, though, is NOT a long time, by the time any deal is closed in Congress and implemented, and with all the demagoguery of the next campaign only a year away, you're really looking at an employment window of a year to 18 months, which screams 'Temps' or 'Subcontractors,' NOT 'Hire permanent employees.'  Its effect on unemployment rates will be a lot more modest than the proponents are claiming due to the basic flaw of the very limited duration of the rate change.


I can totally agree with the unquoted part, but I think that you are missing the GOP political strategy for 2012. They believe that by kicking the can down the road only two years will NOT aid in economic recovery (as you stated above), leaving them cued up for a 2010 redux at the polls, with the White House on the ballot.  Also, they add the tax rates to the entire campaign strategy, leaving the Dems with only their "class warfare" card to play, trying to use talking points to avoid the blame for what will be SIX years of economic stagnation.  It's a risky plan, but one that just might work........unfortunately the losers are the American people, who will suffer for another couple of years with a floundering economy, but in reality with Obama in the WH, that is a likely bet anyway.  In short......right now it's a DEMOCRAT congress that passed this, and it it doesn't work (likely) the GOP can't be blamed for it.

All that said, I think that the GOP would have been much better off to stonewall the "compromise", and wait until the new congress is seated in January......they would be able to pass a much better bill, without all of the pork hanging on it, and also place some "qualifiers" on an extension of unemployment.  Obama would be forced to sign it, or become the modern version of Captain Smith, going down with the Titanic.  The political reality of this, however, is I don't think that they had the votes to stall it until the next session.  The downside is if that were to happen, the GOP stands to receive the blame for all of the economic woes present two years from now........something was going to be passed, and they either had to come to the table, or get screwed, and attempt for a later repeal, which would be virtually impossible.

I suspect that this is FAR from a done deal......there is no bill written as yet, and the offshoot of this is that in writing one, and scheduling the floor votes, will kill most of the last two remaining weeks in the lame duck session, lessening the danger that much more onerous votes can be scheduled on a lot of the liberal agenda, that they hoped to cram down our throats.

Overall, an excellent analysis however, particularly your evaluation of the media reaction.........it would be nice if they could catch a clue now and then.

doc
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 01:42:07 PM by TVDOC »

Offline ColonialMarine0431

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 01:36:14 PM »
Quote
All that said, I think that the GOP would have been much better off to stonewall the "compromise", and wait until the new congress is seated in January......they would be able to pass a much better bill, without all of the pork hanging on it, and also place some "qualifiers" on an extension of unemployment.


Is it possible that when the Republicans take the House next month that a bill can be presented that would make the Bush tax rates permanent? I would also like to see alot of proposals to cut unnecessary gubbment spending, cut waste and add term limits. I really don't think the Founding Fathers meant for politicos to spend their whole lives in office.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 01:49:09 PM »
Doc, I think there are a few in the GOP who see the futility in a two-year extension for what it is in the cold light of careful analysis, and look at this as a conscious strategy to keep Obama from getting the purely-serendipitous and undeserved windfall that unmeddled-with market cyclic forces would normally deliver to him in the form of recovery. 

But, I'm afraid far, far too many of them actually believe their side's own press releases and punditry about the magical effect this thing's gonna have, as well as suddenly developing a baseless and child-like faith in Obama's come-to-Jesus belief in triangulation.  Aside from that small core of cynical strategic thinkers, the bulk of the GOP is setting itself up for some serious cognitive dissonance.
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 01:51:08 PM »


Is it possible that when the Republicans take the House next month that a bill can be presented that would make the Bush tax rates permanent? I would also like to see alot of proposals to cut unnecessary gubbment spending, cut waste and add term limits. I really don't think the Founding Fathers meant for politicos to spend their whole lives in office.

It is.....but Obama would most certainly veto it.  Regarding the overall level of spending, the new House will be able to simply cut off the flow of funds to the Administration's agenda through the budget and appropriations process, as all spending bills constitutionally, must originate in the HOR......that is a BIG plus, and the Dems obviously know it.....hence all the teeth knashing going on......

doc
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Offline Doc

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2010, 02:09:37 PM »
Doc, I think there are a few in the GOP who see the futility in a two-year extension for what it is in the cold light of careful analysis, and look at this as a conscious strategy to keep Obama from getting the purely-serendipitous and undeserved windfall that unmeddled-with market cyclic forces would normally deliver to him in the form of recovery.  

But, I'm afraid far, far too many of them actually believe their side's own press releases and punditry about the magical effect this thing's gonna have, as well as suddenly developing a baseless and childlike faith in Obama's come-to-Jesus belief in triangulation.  Aside from that small core of cynical strategic thinkers, the bulk of the GOP is setting itself up for some serious cognitive dissonance.

I'd argue that first, Obama is NOT triangulating.......he is desperately looking for a "win" on virtually anything, as he has been kicked in the teeth on his entire agenda so far.  Health care is falling apart, both legally and fiscally, and even he acknowledges that a good portion of it won't survive.  He has basically failed at everything he's tried, and what little he did manage to get through has only SEVERELY angered his base (and cost him the independent vote).  DADT just went down the drain, and Cap & Trade, and "Card Check" are now DOA.

Only the MSM are trying as hard as possible to make him look "successful", but even that mantra is fraying around the edges, as his poll numbers continue to drop......he will be in the 30% range soon, which is the point where basically even his accolytes will be forced to abandon him, to preserve their own credibility.

We are still in Afghanistan (thank God), which he promised to end, and "trial balloons" are now going up from the WH stating that the promised troop reductions won't happen until 2014 (if then).  Gitmo is still open, and so far his Justice and State Deptments  have both been a joke.

We are seeing history being made, as a presidency virtually collapses from within........he won't allow himself to become as astute a politician as Clinton, who accepted the results of 1994, and remade his entire presidency into a "populous" poll-driven exercise in popularity.  Obama will continue to fail for two reasons, he just isn't that smart politically, and second, he (unlike Clinton) is an ideologue (a "true beleiver").....his ego will continue to drive him to destroy his own administration.

doc
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 02:26:29 PM by TVDOC »

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2010, 02:24:03 PM »
Agreed it is not triangulation, no matter what the pundits (Including far too many on our side) say - his sulky and foot-dragging 'Agreement' here is just an outlier, not a trend.
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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2010, 08:55:13 PM »
We are seeing history being made, as a presidency virtually collapses from within........he won't allow himself to become as astute a politician as Clinton, who accepted the results of 1994, and remade his entire presidency into a "populous" poll-driven exercise in popularity.  Obama will continue to fail for two reasons, he just isn't that smart politically, and second, he (unlike Clinton) is an ideologue (a "true beleiver").....his ego will continue to drive him to destroy his own administration.

doc

Excellent analysis. One is reminded of the Carter Administration. For the sake of the country I hope the next Reagan type conservative is out there waiting to trounce his ass in 2012.

Probably the only person that is happy with him right now is Carter.  :-)
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Offline TVDOC

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Re: DumbAss Tanker Political Analysis on Tax Deal
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2010, 12:08:49 PM »
Excellent analysis. One is reminded of the Carter Administration. For the sake of the country I hope the next Reagan type conservative is out there waiting to trounce his ass in 2012.

Probably the only person that is happy with him right now is Carter.  :-)

Yeah.....I said a long time ago politically, that this clown was destined to finally move Carter off the bottom of the list, and he succeeded in his first two years......Carter actually DID manage to accomplish giving away the Panama Canal........all our "Affirmative Action" president has managed to give away is most of our productive wealth, and a lot of superheated air..........however, to give him credit where credit is due, he has been a boon to the "vacation" industry, perhaps that is where he gets his "jobs saved/created" statistics........

doc
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