I'm sick of the 'soldier worship' aspect of our society

[Carl]

OKDem08 (1000+ posts)         Sat Dec-04-10 05:49 AM
Original message
I'm sick of the 'soldier worship' aspect of our society
      

You know you're being deceived when perception and reality do not concur.

The primary reason most join is due to lack of economic opportunity, not because of duty to country or lofty principles.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x542404

RandomThoughts  (1000+ posts)          Sat Dec-04-10 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yea that disgust me also.
   I understand honoring people that act bravely and honorably within there best perception, but most of that is not to honor soldiers, but to make it look like soldiering is the most honorable thing.

It carries over to an assumption the wars are just and such, even if soldiers are doing the best within their perspective, not correcting that perspective is ridiculous.

Can't really blame the Soldiers though, it is just another form of prison.



You might also say the reason some want economic hardship is for them to sign up for an area of less choice and more followship of dictates from those that never fought themselves. Reminds me of the Samurai poets that never fought a day in their lives writing poems and creating a code of conduct using the respect of the Samurai that did fight.

   

9. Could not agree with you more.
   
Militarism, jingoism and contempt for human life (especially when compounded with racism) are THE most virulent, destructive and dangerous characteristics of the American society. "Troops are brave heroes who are fighting for our freedom" is nothing but propaganda; how the American people (on the whole) put up with some truly evil stuff done by our ruling class, in our name, is absolutely beyond me.

Have you seen this thread? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
I found it disturbing as hell, not because I'm not fully aware of what's been happening in Iraq, but because that guy was given a free pass (by liberals on DU!) and absolved of all responsibility for his crimes (yes, CRIMES - it does NOT matter if he was "just following the orders"). I KNOW that he, too, is a victim of the system; but that does NOT make it right for us to be so complacent in the face of pure evil. ("Oh, about a million of dead Iraqis?... Oh well. It's too bad, but we don't like to talk about it. Who counts dead Iraqis, anyway? It's only brave American heroes whose lives count.")

The sad truth is that the ruling class has been largely successful in cultivating the type of mentality - in the society as a whole - that allows and encourages this type of behavior. (Not historically unprecedented, by far. In fact, certain analogies immediately come to mind.)
   

DavidDvorkin  (1000+ posts)          Sat Dec-04-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's historically un-American
   In the early days of the country, Americans were noted for their dislike of uniforms, soldiers, and standing armies. US troops coming home from the unsuccessful attempt to invade Canada in the War of 1812 were jeered by crowds of citizens.

Perhaps the change began with the Civil War. I think the reverence of all things military was deliberately encouraged by the government during the Cold War. Now it's deeply ingrained in our culture.

niceypoo  (1000+ posts)          Sat Dec-04-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. Soldier worship furthers the military industrial complex
   ...and mindless nationalism.

[thundley4]

Granted that economics may play a part in why some join, but that doesn't explain why so many remain past their obligatory time and re-enlist.  Most employers still give high marks for military experience.

[Ballygrl]

I can't even finish reading that thread.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Demographic analysis of recruiting stats has shown that the people who enlist for the grittiest, most dangerous work - combat arms - definitely don't do it by and large for economics, and in fact they are disproportionately white kids who had plenty of other options.  Heinlein hit on the 'Why' of it fifty-plus years ago in Starship Troopers - 'Everyone else just hands them the saw.'  It's a man thing, so DUmpMonkies wouldn't understand.

[blitzkrieg_17]

**** you, you traitorous pieces of shit.

[Attero Dominatus]

MH1 (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sat Dec-04-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. Big reason for 'soldier worship'? because the worshippers don't want to do it themselves.   Updated at 3:07 PM
   
So they make heroes of the people who did do it.

Until we have universal service in this country, where everyone* has to experience the reality, you will have soldier worship. (You may have it still, but at least there will be some personal experience tempering it for more people)

But on the flip side, some 'soldier worship' is deserved, in my opinion. (Disclaimer: I served 8 years). Why? because however and whyever they got there, once they're in, they're trained, usually successfully, to stand in the line of fire for YOU. Or as the nutty colonel said in A Few Good Men, imo correctly (even if the character was an asshole): they stand on the wall. So you don't have to.

Until there's a significant decrease in the selfishness and cowardice of the general population, or mandatory universal service at least, I'll 'worship' the class of people that do serve and stand on that wall. Knowing that a few of them are not really all that honorable or brave but are just riding it out - from my experience the vast majority are worthy of appreciation just for being there.

p.s. OKDem08, have you ever been in the military? Been in combat or a quasi-realistic training exercise? (the closest I came was barely the latter but it was enough to make me appreciate the people who actually serve under real fire.)
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Whether they are conscripted or recruited, soldiers are making a sacrifice to protect, DUmbass

[BlueStateSaint]

One could turn this around on the DUmb****s.  Don't they think Kim Jong Il, Castro, Stalin, Mao, etc., are the be-all, end-alls in government?  How did they get to where they wound up?  Was it by the ballot box--or the bullet box?  IOW, civilian means, or military?

[ColonialMarine0431]

Lies.

Based on an understanding of the limitations of any objective definition of quality, this report com­pares military volunteers to the civilian population on four demographic characteristics: household income, education level, racial and ethnic back­ground, and regional origin. This report finds that:

1.U.S. military service disproportionately attracts enlisted personnel and officers who do not come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Previous Her­itage Foundation research demonstrated that the quality of enlisted troops has increased since the start of the Iraq war. This report demon­strates that the same is true of the officer corps.

2.Members of the all-volunteer military are sig­nificantly more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods. Only 11 percent of enlisted recruits in 2007 came from the poorest one-fifth (quintile) of neighborhoods, while 25 per­cent came from the wealthiest quintile. These trends are even more pronounced in the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) pro­gram, in which 40 percent of enrollees come from the wealthiest neighborhoods—a number that has increased substantially over the past four years.

3.American soldiers are more educated than their peers. A little more than 1 percent of enlisted per­sonnel lack a high school degree, compared to 21 percent of men 18–24 years old, and 95 percent of officer accessions have at least a bachelor’s degree.

4.Contrary to conventional wisdom, minorities are not overrepresented in military service. Enlisted troops are somewhat more likely to be white or black than their non-military peers. Whites are proportionately represented in the officer corps, and blacks are overrepresented, but their rate of over representation has declined each year from 2004 to 2007. New recruits are also disproportionately likely to come from the South, which is in line with the history of South­ern military tradition.

SOURCE

As an aside. I happen to come from a very wealthy family.

[JohnnyReb]

New recruits are also disproportionately likely to come from the South, which is in line with the history of South­ern military tradition.

That has always been true....only one state outside the old CSA has had a higher service percentage rate per the population and that state is West Virginia.

[LC EFA]

Whether they are conscripted or recruited, soldiers are making a sacrifice to protect, DUmbass

The DU's idea of sacrifice is having to buy a bag of bag of weed for their comrades with some of the money they stole from you.

[Vagabond]

Demographic analysis of recruiting stats has shown that the people who enlist for the grittiest, most dangerous work - combat arms - definitely don't do it by and large for economics, and in fact they are disproportionately white kids who had plenty of other options.  Heinlein hit on the 'Why' of it fifty-plus years ago in Starship Troopers - 'Everyone else just hands them the saw.'  It's a man thing, so DUmpMonkies wouldn't understand.

I asked for Cavalry scout when I enlisted.  I never understood why that wasn't even offered.  I picked SATCOM because it sounded cool.

[Revolution]

See, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off. I don't think I'd smack you if I could serve, OKDem, but I would certainly give you an earfull. I'd still scream in your face if I met you. You wouldn't make a good DUmor on John Kerry's ass, and he'd HARDLY a guy to look up to as a good, upstanding soldir...

[ColonialMarine0431]

A concept DUmmies don't understand; a love of country so deep that you're willing to die for it. A love of your family and friends so deep that you'll throw yourself in harms way and take a bullet and die to protect them.

I don't need your 'soldier worship'. I don't want it. .

You don't believe in anything and you have no Honor. Without Honor a man is nothing.

[Airwolf]

Anytime one of you shitsatins wants to repeat this crap to my face feel free to have your doctor on speed dial.

[txradioguy]

OKDem08 (1000+ posts)         Sat Dec-04-10 05:49 AM
Original message
I'm sick of the 'soldier worship' aspect of our society
     

You know you're being deceived when perception and reality do not concur.

The primary reason most join is due to lack of economic opportunity, not because of duty to country or lofty principles.

For gold the merchant ploughs the main,
The farmer ploughs the manor;
But glory is the sodger's prize,
The soldiers's wealth is honor:
The brave poor soldier never despise,
Nor count him as a stranger;
Remember he's his country's stay,
In day and hour of danger.

- Robert Burns 


Screw you...you spineless bunch of asshats. 

[NHSparky]

"Of the four wars that came about in my lifetime, none was because the United States was too strong."  -Ronaldus Maximus

Suck it, DUmmies.

[true_blood]

niceypoo  (1000+ posts)          Sat Dec-04-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. Soldier worship furthers the military industrial complex...and mindless nationalism.

This is the mindset over there.
Stupidity running away rampant on that board. You DUmmies need to wake up and wake up fast.

[Ptarmigan]

If they hate soldier worship, than get out of America! 

[ColonialMarine0431]

I'm proud to be a Nationalist. It means that I have a deep love for my country, in spite of what Obama & Soros are trying to do. It means that I'm willing to die for the Colors and the principles that the Founding Fathers set forth; Liberty and Freedom. Two things most people on Earth are denied. DUmmies don't realise just how damn lucky they are to live in a nation where people voluntarilly put on a uniform and stand on that wall 24/7 to protect them.

We live in a dangerous world, and the only thing standing between freedom and slavery are us in uniform. I suggest that DUmmies go live in China or Russia for a year and see what it's like.

[I_B_Perky]

We live in a dangerous world, and the only thing standing between freedom and slavery are us in uniform. I suggest that DUmmies go live in China or Russia for a year and see what it's like.

I was thinking the dummies should go live in Iran or North Korea. They could really speak truth to power there!!


 

[true_blood]

I'm proud to be a Nationalist. It means that I have a deep love for my country, in spite of what Obama & Soros are trying to do. It means that I'm willing to die for the Colors and the principles that the Founding Fathers set forth; Liberty and Freedom. Two things most people on Earth are denied. DUmmies don't realise just how damn lucky they are to live in a nation where people voluntarilly put on a uniform and stand on that wall 24/7 to protect them.
We live in a dangerous world, and the only thing standing between freedom and slavery are us in uniform. I suggest that DUmmies go live in China or Russia for a year and see what it's like.

Bingo brother!
Suck it you anti-American DUmmies/liberals.

[ColonialMarine0431]

I was thinking the dummies should go live in Iran or North Korea. They could really speak truth to power there!!


 

And be executed for speaking their minds. Although I suspect that most of them would enjoy living under a regime where the people are subserviant to the State. For the rest of us who believe in the dignity of the individual and cherish freedom it would be intolerable. If I had the misfortune of being born in one of those oppressive regimes I'd probably be sitting in a cell somewhere for screaming out for the rights that all human beings deserve. Contrary to what we've been tought, one person CAN make a difference. If you study history you'll see that it has been made by single people. Washington, Churchill, Lincoln, Reagan, Roosevelt, Stalin, Hitler. For better or for worse thay all changed history.

[littlelamb]

I doubt any of the DUmmies would have the balls to serve unlike our great men and women in uniform

[JohnnyReb]

I doubt any of the DUmmies would have the balls to serve unlike our great men and women in uniform

True.....and when we're attacked, who do you think their going to hide behind, the old hippie in tie die or the soldier in uniform?

[dandi]

OKDem08 (1000+ posts)         Sat Dec-04-10 05:49 AM
Original message
I'm sick of the 'soldier worship' aspect of our society

Really?  As a young man, I couldn't stand the soldier hate aspect of our society (post Viet Nam) and all of the bullshit that invaded our culture from you commie queers.  Personally, I am very happy that this country is finally getting back to honoring those who willingly stand the line to make sure you are safe.

I did my 22, DUmmie shit-stain, and all I need to sleep well at night is to know I lived my life with purpose and honor.  When I stand before God Almighty and all of those who went before me, I will be able to hold my head high because I served in the most honorable and merciful armed forces that ever existed.

I leave you, wet-mouthed DUmmie faggot, with two quotes:

A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living.

And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:  "I served in the United States Navy

Suck it, mouth breather.