grouchy old primitive dealing with canine behavior

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=243x43578

Oh my.

The predicaments the primitives have.

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Fri Nov-12-10 12:59 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Original message

Have a bit of a behavioral problem with my big German Shepherd/Border Collie mix

She is big girl about a hundred pounds and she has a habit of wanting to jump up and towards people when meeting them. She is not being aggressive at all. Its almost like she is trying to hug them and be hugged back? We have noticed she won't do it with elderly people or little kids either so that is a plus.

Any idea what causes this behavior and if there a way to break her of it? We don't and won't use any form of corporal punishment on our dogs.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Don

Edit to add she is about 2 and a half years old now.

BrklynLiberal  (1000+ posts)        Fri Nov-12-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message

2. I would say that the thing to do is work very, very hard on the SIT! STAY! command..so that when people are around..you can use those commands to prevent her from jumping. Rather than punish her for jumping, preemptively replace the behavior with something positive..like SIT! STAY! and give her a great reward when she does it..especially around people she would usually jump up on.

It would be up to you to anticipate her jumping, and issue the SIT! STAY! command before she has a chance to jump on anyone.

Enough rewards, and her reaction to people will be to SIT! STAY! rather than jump, since she gets the high value reward. Cut up hot dogs,cooked chicken..something better than the usual treats

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Fri Nov-12-10 06:53 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Response to Reply #2

3. She sits and stays pretty as a picture without any treats until a person reaches to pet her

Then I think its as if she gets so excited she jumps up. She is more controllable in this situation if she has already finished taking care of her 'business', so I think a some of it is just excitement.

One guy who walks by here every day and is her best buddy in the world. I think she likes this guy better than me? Doug is good with dogs though. Doug has owned bigger dogs before. Doug gets down right to her level and scratches her real good all over. All the good spots get itched. You can tell she is in seventh heaven with him. She don't jump on him at all either. Never has.

I think this may an 'attention', thing? If she is getting plenty of attention she doesn't feel the need to jump to get more. But if someone acts tentative and just wants to rub her head or ears she gets pushy for more close up and personal attention. I think she may also be spoiled and expects everyone to rub, scratch, and sweet talk her like Doug does?

We were kind of hoping she would grow out of this but at her age I am starting to wonder if this is going to be permanent. Other than the jumping she has been a fine dog. Great watchdog.

Thank you for your help with this.

Don

BrklynLiberal  (1000+ posts)        Fri Nov-12-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
4. Perhaps instructing the people who she jumps on to tell her to SIT! and then allowing them to pet her AFTER she is sitting might get make her understand that she needs to be SITTING in order to be petted..

When she goes to jump on them, and she does not sit, they can turn away from her....and say SIT! again. See if that works.

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Sat Nov-13-10 08:31 AM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Response to Reply #4

7. I have tried that and it works

But most people don't seem to want to cooperate. They want to pet and rub her, but they aren't interested in helping me train her. Maybe they are the ones with the behavioral problem?

Its a mess.

Don

BrklynLiberal  (1000+ posts)        Sat Nov-13-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
 
9. You re right. The people are the ones with the problem. She is your dog and they should listen to your instructions...

You are trying to make her a dog that you can take anywhere and can be with anyone. Their responsibility is to cooperate with you.

If you told them that she bites and they should not pet her, would they pet her anyway? How stupid these people are!

I think the best think you can do for your dog and yourself is to keep walking past the people who will not cooperate.

If they will not listen to you..then it is "Sorry. We have to go now." and walk away from them

CC  (1000+ posts)        Fri Nov-12-10 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
 
5. Tell people to cross their arms and turn away from her when she jumps. As soon as she sits down tell her she is a good girl and pet or treat her as a reward. But only as long as her butt is on the ground. You can allow those that will do it right to reward her if you want too

That is what it took for me to teach my GSD to not jump on me since he is about 120 lbs. He jumps on my SO but that is because the SO likes it and encourages it for doggy hugs. The little dogs jump up trying to reach his neck too for doggy hugs.

I just don't think dogs should be allowed to jump on people. I've got all the dogs to where they will sit in front of me wagging their tails a mile a minute for attention by doing the ignore when jumping, barking etc. and petting when they sit or lay down. Lucky for me and the dogs they are all pretty smart and learned fast who allowed what since the man couldn't learn what was allowed and not allowed.

jtuck004  (1000+ posts)      Sat Nov-13-10 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
 
6. Exactly. Do not reinforce the behavior that you do not want, and it will go away. Maybe not as soon as you would like, especially if you have someone that is rewarding her for it (with scritches, hot dogs, attention, whatever), but it will go away.

Reward what you like.

Works with people too

roody  (1000+ posts)      Sat Nov-13-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. zero tolerance

Withdraw all attention when she jumps.

BrklynLiberal  (1000+ posts)        Sat Nov-13-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
 
10. That would include walking away from people who will not cooperate with your attempts to get her to stop jumping.

jtuck004  (1000+ posts)      Sun Nov-14-10 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
 
11. And if you forget, roll up a newspaper, stand quietly, then hit YOURSELF on the head while repeating "I must remember, I must remember, I must remember".

Then give the dog a cookie when all four are on the floor (or however many she has)

Well, it would be a rather unusual state of affairs if a dog had five or six feet.

TorchTheWitch  (1000+ posts)      Tue Nov-16-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
 
12. this is a relatively easy one to fix

This is a lot easier to fix if she jumps on you, too, so you can address the problem more directly. In either case, first the instant she does it, she needs to be corrected by redirection. This is easier if the redirect comes from the person she's jumping on, but not essential. As soon as she starts to jump up, redirect by using a sound command she associates with stopping a bad behavior while giving her a strong physical touch like a poke with your whole hand.

The energy of the redirect has to be slightly higher than her energy in doing the bad behavior. What you're trying to do here with redirection in any behavior correction is take their attention away from the bad behavior they're doing and focusing it back on you so that you can tell them what type of behavior you want. Dogs can't focus on more than one thing at a time, so redirection is easy as long as it's strong enough to take their attention off of what they're doing and putting it on you.

If the redirection is done properly, the dog will take their attention off the person they're wanting to jump on and put it on you. She'll probably look at you with that classic expression of "WHAT???" This is when you tell her what behavior is expected from her. Combine whatever stopping word command you use like no, down, sit... whatever with a hand signal.

This is the one behavior problem where a hand signal works wonders and is a lot more efficient than a word command. Hold your hand out flat over her face several inches above it. Don't put it there like you're making a motion to strike her, but calmly and deliberately place your hand in that position at the same time you use the word command (no, down, sit, etc.).

The attention will instantly focus to your hand, and she'll look at it as the barrier it is intended to be. She won't try to jump up through that barrier although it may take a few times for her to get that message. Take your hand away once she has focused her attention on it and has complied with your word command to sit, get down, stop, etc. If she tries to jump again immediately do the dual word command/hand signal again.

Go very easy with the praise on this one when she does what you want. Praising her can trigger excitement which is what is causing the jumping to begin with. A simple calm, "good girl" is good enough here.

Teach the people who she normally will jump on this way to do the dual command themselves to stop this behavior immediately. It works a lot better when the person being jumped on is the one to tell her to stop.

Friendly dogs or dogs that are friendly with certain people tend to do this as a way of showing their excitement and happiness in greeting... they want to be closer to your face. It just tends to be more noticeable when larger dogs do it because their size means they are physically capable of getting close to it... nobody ever seems to notice much when a small dog does this since they aren't getting higher than around the knee area.

Both my Akitas were jumper greeters, and once I figured out how to finally fix this problem it was the easiest one to teach. The Akita I have now is a lot more demonstrative in wanting to show his loving excitement and sticks his head up in the air in the direction of the person's face and licks the air as if he's wanting to lick their face. It looks really silly, but it's his way of saying "I'd lick you all over the face if Mommy would let me!"

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-24-10 07:03 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Response to Original message

13. Discovered this dog is bilingual today

Had her at the vet and there were two separate conversation going on while we were waiting. It was obvious she was listening to the conversation in Spanish more than the one in English. I asked the lady who worked there if she would mind giving a few commands in Spanish to my dog and she did. Missy responded to every command the lady gave her. She gave one verbal command and Missy stuck hew paw out so she could shake hands with the lady. She has never been taught to do that in English?

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Sun Nov-28-10 01:49 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Response to Reply #16

18. Amazing she remembered those commands in Spanish back from when I found her two years ago

She was only 6 months old then. December 29, 2008 is the day I found here. Just sitting on the side of the road pretty as a picture wagging her tail as I drove by at 55MPH.

Sure glad I picked her up.

She is really a great dog. When she kisses someone she actually puckers her lips up like a human does.

Don

[thundley4]

I thought the problem was going to be that the dog was always licking itself.  There wouldn't be nothing the DUmmie could do since the dog learned that from the DUmmie.

[catsmtrods]

What a bunch of morons! They must not have had very many big dogs in their lives? If they did the dogs rule!
From a puppy when a dog displays that behavior you send a knee into their chest and make that behavior very uncomfortable. It will stop.

[jukin]

What a bunch of morons! They must not have had very many big dogs in their lives? If they did the dogs rule!
From a puppy when a dog displays that behavior you send a knee into their chest and make that behavior very uncomfortable. It will stop.

Beat me too it, spot on.

Again, proving that most every problem in their life is self induced.

[true_blood]

What a bunch of morons! They must not have had very many big dogs in their lives? If they did the dogs rule!
From a puppy when a dog displays that behavior you send a knee into their chest and make that behavior very uncomfortable. It will stop.

Yes. Indeed.
I grew up with German Shepherds and my parents bred then when I was younger. (My favorite dog actually.) Smart, loyal, fearless, and VERY easily trained.
DUmmie, you make the rules and train the dog. Not the other way around.

[Chris_]

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-24-10 07:03 PM
NOMINATED FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2010
Response to Original message

13. Discovered this dog is bilingual today

Had her at the vet and there were two separate conversation going on while we were waiting. It was obvious she was listening to the conversation in Spanish more than the one in English. I asked the lady who worked there if she would mind giving a few commands in Spanish to my dog and she did. Missy responded to every command the lady gave her. She gave one verbal command and Missy stuck hew paw out so she could shake hands with the lady. She has never been taught to do that in English?

Your dog is smarter than you are.

[Freeper]

Any idea what causes this behavior and if there a way to break her of it? We don't and won't use any form of corporal punishment on our dogs.

I'm totally against cruelty to animals even DUmmies but, in order to get a dog's attention it probably will require some form of 'corporal punishment". I'm assuming the goon thinks even a squirt gun is corporal punishment.