Author Topic: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"  (Read 2856 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« on: November 29, 2010, 07:31:51 PM »
Quote
Hoyer: "Military should also see pay freeze"

The second-ranking House Democrat said Monday that President Obama’s move to freeze the pay of civilian federal employees should also be extended to military personnel.

Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said including the military would have increased savings and add “an element of fairness." He made the comments in a statement about he president’s announcement of a two-year pay freeze.
The Hill

Fairness.  :whatever:  How about we just freeze your pay, Steny?
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline true_blood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6221
  • Reputation: +652/-817
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 07:56:08 PM »
Am I surprised by this remark? Of course not. He's an obumbler zombie. :hammer:

Offline txradioguy

  • Minister of Propaganda
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18686
  • Reputation: +1292/-1116
  • Rule 39
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 08:45:04 PM »
We're overpaid? :???:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 08:46:58 PM »
Maybe if we started shooting at the Congress critters, they might change their mind.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline txradioguy

  • Minister of Propaganda
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18686
  • Reputation: +1292/-1116
  • Rule 39
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 09:09:41 PM »
Maybe if we started shooting at the Congress critters, they might change their mind.

I'll swap MY "benefits" and housing etc with what HE gets for about a month or so and then lets see if he thinks that WE need a pay freeze right along with all those 6 figure income DoD union card carrying civilians.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline Freeper

  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17779
  • Reputation: +1311/-314
  • Creepy ass cracker.
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 09:11:09 PM »
The military is the hardest working of any employee period, much less of any govt employee.
They should be the ones making twice the amount of their counterparts in the civilian world not, some paper pusher.
Tell you what let's start paying congress and senate members the same pay our military gets.
First term you get E-1 pay second term E-2 pay third term E-3 pay and so on.

I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline txradioguy

  • Minister of Propaganda
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18686
  • Reputation: +1292/-1116
  • Rule 39
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 11:55:42 PM »
The military is the hardest working of any employee period, much less of any govt employee.
They should be the ones making twice the amount of their counterparts in the civilian world not, some paper pusher.
Tell you what let's start paying congress and senate members the same pay our military gets.
First term you get E-1 pay second term E-2 pay third term E-3 pay and so on.



Damn good idea Freeper!
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline ironhorsedriver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
  • Reputation: +28/-1
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 05:35:26 AM »
The contempt I have for this moronic, pinhead is overwhelming. What's amazing to me is Maryland keeps putting this loser back in office.

Offline NHSparky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24431
  • Reputation: +1280/-617
  • Where are you going? I was gonna make espresso!
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 06:37:08 AM »
We're overpaid? :???:

I remember the Clinton years very well.   I had ONE (yes, ONE) payraise that kept up with inflation.  Obama is hell-bent on beating that (by making it zero.)
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline txradioguy

  • Minister of Propaganda
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18686
  • Reputation: +1292/-1116
  • Rule 39
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 07:06:54 AM »
I remember the Clinton years very well.   I had ONE (yes, ONE) payraise that kept up with inflation.  Obama is hell-bent on beating that (by making it zero.)

Yup been there done that too. 

Neither congress or the WH are offering anything that goes beyond 1.9% for the next FY.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 09:09:15 AM »
I remember the Clinton years very well.   I had ONE (yes, ONE) payraise that kept up with inflation.  Obama is hell-bent on beating that (by making it zero.)

Let me tell ya, it beats the shit out of the Carter years.  When I signed up, military pay had been made 'Competitive' (With McDonald's maybe) but of course there were the benefits like GI Bill that were more of interest to me then.  During Carter's four ugly years, inflation climbed well into double digits and military pay increases did not even come close to matching half the rate of inflation.  The corrosive effect on recruiting and retention was staggering, it took Reagan's investment in the military to turn it around and even that didn't fully take root until well into his second term.

Objectively, I suppose Hoyer is right on the technicals; if inflation is really flat, then there is no reason to raise either military or civilian pay, an annual pay raise is not after all an entitlement.  Not getting a raise does not equate to overpaid, it means 'paid correctly currently.'  Problem here is that Congress has no appetite to impose any restraints on itself before looking to scalp the military and civil service in the Executive branch, so it comes across as complete blood-scuking weasel behavior.     
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline NHSparky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24431
  • Reputation: +1280/-617
  • Where are you going? I was gonna make espresso!
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 09:24:27 AM »
Sorry, but when federal civilian employees pay since 2000 has increased at an annual rate of 3 percent per year ABOVE the inflation rate, and AD pay is just barely keeping pace with inflation (or losing), then something is very, very wrong...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/us/politics/30freeze.html

Quote
In a report in June, Chris Edwards of the Cato Institute, a libertarian research organization in Washington, found that federal civilian workers had an average annual wage of $81,258 in 2009, compared with $50,464 for the nation’s private-sector workers. Average federal salaries rose 58 percent from 2000 to 2009, compared with 30 percent in the private sector.


Quote
The number of federal workers making more than $150,000 a year has grown ten-fold in the past five years and doubled since Mr. Obama took office, according to a USA Today study earlier this month. Since 2000, federal pay and benefits have increased 3 percent annually above inflation, compared with 0.8 percent for private sector workers, according to data cited by the newspaper.



“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2010, 10:47:32 AM »
Sorry, but when federal civilian employees pay since 2000 has increased at an annual rate of 3 percent per year ABOVE the inflation rate, and AD pay is just barely keeping pace with inflation (or losing), then something is very, very wrong...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/us/politics/30freeze.html

The Times cannot be taken as an unbiased source on anything since they will report an assemblage of partial truths to bolster whatever the official Democrat position might be.  This is an area where the opportunity to lie with carefully-constructed statistics is practically unbounded.

Your comparison to AD pay is a little odd since annual Federal civilian pay increases are pegged to military pay increases and always less.  Collectively, looking at total payroll, there are huge differences:

1.  A big part of military compensation is non-taxable BAH, and a lot of these comparisons want to cost out every dime of civilian employee benefits while just looking at military base pay, omitting a side-by-side comparison with the actual full cost of the military benefit basket, or even at their very best they compare a first-term E3 driving a PLS on a dirt road in a maneuver area to a career employee with a CDL driving on US highways.

2.  The bulk of the military payroll is what in work force stat terms would be blue collar work, and it's actually not even at the top of the food chain for danger as far as blue collar work goes.  On the civil service side, the blue collar functions other than law enforcement have been relentlessly contracted out and every year that goes by there is pressure to flip over any that remain.  What's left is more than ever a white collar organization, so comparing it to a super bank is more apt than comparing it to a super factory.  If you had a super-bank with its headquarters in Arlington or DC, do you think 10% of its employees would be making over $150K? 

3.  If civilian pay has increased 3% a year since 2000, that has NOTHING to do with annual pay increases, which as best I recall have never been anything like that high over that whole period, that has to do with the total budget with lower-level jobs getting contracted out or dispensed with through automation, and people increasing in seniority in an aging work force...the structure of civil service pay is that it is decent to start with, but there is no potential for large increase, and instead it slowly but steadily increases over the years one stays in the system to make up for the lack of any take-off.  Depending on the field, there may or may not be promotion as the career progresses, which also increases salary at a measured pace.  The lack of any fast upside potential, as well as record of qualifications among competitors for openings, both work from opposite directions to ensure that the median workforce age and seniority creep steadily up.  The military on the other hand starts with modest pay but a killer benefits package, and counts on 50% of the Soldiers who successfully complete training and join units to leave active service within four to six years; it has its own seniority increases for time in service, of course, but it also has an up-or-out system of promotion, so that if you stay in it for a career, pay necessarily increases through promotion as well as seniority.

It's all a bunch of apples and oranges horseshit, and just the GOP version of the class warfare we're always mocking the Democrats for.  And an awful lot of the hatin' on the Federal employees is coming from the same people who demand their Government services be rendered immediately and perfectly when they want them...like their own tax refund, or their own VA decision or treatment, or their own Social Security payment...people with their own special entitlement mentality about the Government, i.e. that it should promptly and fully render anything it can do for them, but they shouldn't have to pay what it costs for it to have that capability.  Yep...people like the NYT editiorial staff.   
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline true_blood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6221
  • Reputation: +652/-817
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 01:12:59 PM »
The military is the hardest working of any employee period, much less of any govt employee.
They should be the ones making twice the amount of their counterparts in the civilian world not, some paper pusher.
Tell you what let's start paying congress and senate members the same pay our military gets.
First term you get E-1 pay second term E-2 pay third term E-3 pay and so on.
Seriously. These military personel are thousands of miles away from their loved ones for who knows how long at a time and they put their lives on the line for us and this Country. Maybe scumbag hoyer should think about that.

Offline Crazy Horse

  • Army 0 Navy 34
  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5602
  • Reputation: +265/-143
  • Sex, Booze and Bacon Minion
Re: Hoyer (D-MD): "Military should also see pay freeze"
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 03:18:16 PM »
The Times cannot be taken as an unbiased source on anything since they will report an assemblage of partial truths to bolster whatever the official Democrat position might be.  This is an area where the opportunity to lie with carefully-constructed statistics is practically unbounded.

Your comparison to AD pay is a little odd since annual Federal civilian pay increases are pegged to military pay increases and always less.  Collectively, looking at total payroll, there are huge differences:

1.  A big part of military compensation is non-taxable BAH, and a lot of these comparisons want to cost out every dime of civilian employee benefits while just looking at military base pay, omitting a side-by-side comparison with the actual full cost of the military benefit basket, or even at their very best they compare a first-term E3 driving a PLS on a dirt road in a maneuver area to a career employee with a CDL driving on US highways.

2.  The bulk of the military payroll is what in work force stat terms would be blue collar work, and it's actually not even at the top of the food chain for danger as far as blue collar work goes.  On the civil service side, the blue collar functions other than law enforcement have been relentlessly contracted out and every year that goes by there is pressure to flip over any that remain.  What's left is more than ever a white collar organization, so comparing it to a super bank is more apt than comparing it to a super factory.  If you had a super-bank with its headquarters in Arlington or DC, do you think 10% of its employees would be making over $150K? 

3.  If civilian pay has increased 3% a year since 2000, that has NOTHING to do with annual pay increases, which as best I recall have never been anything like that high over that whole period, that has to do with the total budget with lower-level jobs getting contracted out or dispensed with through automation, and people increasing in seniority in an aging work force...the structure of civil service pay is that it is decent to start with, but there is no potential for large increase, and instead it slowly but steadily increases over the years one stays in the system to make up for the lack of any take-off.  Depending on the field, there may or may not be promotion as the career progresses, which also increases salary at a measured pace.  The lack of any fast upside potential, as well as record of qualifications among competitors for openings, both work from opposite directions to ensure that the median workforce age and seniority creep steadily up.  The military on the other hand starts with modest pay but a killer benefits package, and counts on 50% of the Soldiers who successfully complete training and join units to leave active service within four to six years; it has its own seniority increases for time in service, of course, but it also has an up-or-out system of promotion, so that if you stay in it for a career, pay necessarily increases through promotion as well as seniority.

It's all a bunch of apples and oranges horseshit, and just the GOP version of the class warfare we're always mocking the Democrats for.  And an awful lot of the hatin' on the Federal employees is coming from the same people who demand their Government services be rendered immediately and perfectly when they want them...like their own tax refund, or their own VA decision or treatment, or their own Social Security payment...people with their own special entitlement mentality about the Government, i.e. that it should promptly and fully render anything it can do for them, but they shouldn't have to pay what it costs for it to have that capability.  Yep...people like the NYT editiorial staff.   

Couldn't have said that any better.
Disclaimer
Any views, remarks or statements of other military services or it’s members is covered under the Inter-Service Rivalry Act of 1974