DUmbass: not giving me other people's money is putting hand in my wallet

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Orlandodem (663 posts)     Wed Nov-24-10 01:35 PM
Original message
Arne Duncan is now putting his hand in my wallet by calling for an end to master's degree stipends!
 Edited on Wed Nov-24-10 01:38 PM by Orlandodem
Let's just send the message that the amount of education someone has doesn't matter!

I swear to God I will not vote for Obama again. This shit is amazing. I have a family. I have a home. I will not sit by and let my money be taken away from me. Obama and Duncan can burn in hell for all I care. I'm sick of being scapegoated!!!

Democrats on DU better get used to the idea that teachers will not vote for Obama again. That will KILL his reelection chances.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...  

Now, mind you, these are the people opposing merit pay because supposedly merit pay =/= higher grades. (BTW - if you're so stupid as to say merit pay =/= good grades you are too stupid to teach because the equation is: good grades = merit pay).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9621896

vi5 (1000+ posts)     Wed Nov-24-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, they don't have those in businesses do they?
 I mean aren't we supposed to be running our schools like businesses?


I'm being sarcastic. The business world in most cases gives bonuses and higher pay for more education and training. So I guess we're supposed to run our schools like businesses and hold teachers to private industry standards only when it suits us.

The whole thing is ridiculous and seeing people spin and make excuses for this is ridiculous. It's even more upsetting seeing that ****ing clown Chris Christie governing my state and doing crap like this and everyone in the education system hating him. But then to see it mimicked and have these things adopted by a Democratic president and the people he appoints. Very upsetting.

Businesses also don't earn their money through the barrel of a tax collector's gun.

Orlandodem (663 posts)     Wed Nov-24-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Because of the War on Teachers, I will consider voting for the person calls for an end to the  
 Department of Education.

That would be me.

"War on teachers?"

jaxx  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-24-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No, it boils down to whether you think someone is worth a big bonus
 because they have a masters. People with masters are working at McDonalds.

Yeah, I'm kinda with this guy.

Why pay more money just because you drank at the frat house 2 extra years?

proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. What a ridiculous argument
 And I see it more and more here on DU. Because one group is hurting, everyone else should. It's also pretty lame.  

That's not his argument but you just invalidated all of liberalism.

jaxx  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-24-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hardly.  
 What it says is that people with masters who don't have the built in safety nets are out there job hunting like so many others. Jobs are gotten and kept on merit.  

Keep it up, buddy. Just keep it up.

proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Why the hell would we not value educating educators?
 That makes zero sense.

Of course it's cheaper to pay untrained folks to teach kids to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. The untrained also are less likely to speak up when stupid policies that are damaging to kids are enacted. That makes sense.

You can pretend this is about merit if you want. Those of us who actually work in education know better.

Yeah, you know if you were paid on performance you would be starving.

bonnieS (172 posts)     Wed Nov-24-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I remember,
 Because I am not all that young, when it was said that women did not need to be educated because they were only going to be housewives. The argument later became: women should be educated so they can be interesting for their husbands to talk to. At some point, the argument finally became that women should be educated because they were human beings who should have full humanity.

The idea that a teacher should not be educated because he or she only has to know that 1+1=2 is not only anti-intellectual, it negates the whole purpose of learning anything. Children should be inspired by their teachers. They should admire them. They should admire that they are learned and have spent a lot of time in school so that they can be full human beings with greater knowledge, and greater creativity, and greater thinking capacity, and not just automatons, who blindly go through radiation machines without even thinking about whether there is a risk of cancer or not.

If children believe that teachers are just there to get them through a test, and that education as a goal in and of itself is stupid, then we as a country are lost.

DirkGently  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Beautifully said. Denigrating advanced degrees for teachers IS anti-intellectuallism.

IOW: we're paying for a piece of paper not any tangible benefit.

BTW - Bush had a Yale MBA. When you called him stupid were you denigrating higher, Ivy League education?

TBF  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Define "student achievement". Are you talking about your precious test scores again? nt

Johnny can't even spell G.E.D. so...yes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9621896

[DumbAss Tanker]

proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Why the hell would we not value educating educators?

"Valuing it" and "Underwriting it" aren't the same thing, you stupid cow.  What should be valued is the people who have the drive to work and get the additional credentials on their own initiative, scrimping and pushing, without resorting to a special variant of the public dole to pay their way so much that at the end of the paper trail it says nothing special about the holder at all.

[delilahmused]

proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Why the hell would we not value educating educators?
 That makes zero sense.

Of course it's cheaper to pay untrained folks to teach kids to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. The untrained also are less likely to speak up when stupid policies that are damaging to kids are enacted. That makes sense.

You can pretend this is about merit if you want. Those of us who actually work in education know better.

I'll pit my son's education against any of your students any time. I'm basically untrained but had a vested interest in his success. Best way to imitate that in the schools is connect teachers' pay to student success. When it affects your pocketbook you'd be amazed how important student success will become.

Cindie

[thundley4]

It's funny that here in my town the parochial schools have higher graduation rates and higher percentages of graduates going to secondary education. 

[DumbAss Tanker]

proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-24-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
...You can pretend this is about merit if you want. Those of us who actually work in education know better.

That's right.  You know it's really just all about your own personal stack of Benjamins, don't ya?

 

[thundley4]

That's right.  You know it's really just all about your own personal stack of Benjamins, don't ya?

 

Some of them claim that it's an attack on unions, but this administration has shown it's willingness to kowtow to other unions, so that dismisses that claim. 

[jukin]

Governor Christie says he is not against the teachers but against the teacher unions.  I'm against the teachers unions and against about 50% of the teachers now.

I was born in Colorado and moved to kalfornia when I was starting the fifth grade. The supposed GREAT schools of kalifornia did not teach me anything new until I got into seventh grade (junior high).  Sadly the NEA has modeled their education system after the failed kalifornia system.  In fact, I was learning spanish in the fourth grade while it was not offered until the seventh grade in the role model state. 

The publik skool system is little more than a baby sitting, indoctrination, and social welfare system. The very sad thing is that the power of the system kills real innovation to keep the money flowing to the unions....that keeps the money flowing to the donks, which....