Author Topic: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000  (Read 3591 times)

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Offline formerlurker

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Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« on: November 21, 2010, 07:38:19 PM »
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News reports on Saturday reporting that the TSA was announcing warnings to would-be travelers that any "would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint but refuses to undergo the method of inspection as prescribed by the TSA workers on duty would not be allowed to fly, (but far more importantly)--would not be permitted to leave the airport."

Sounds like false imprisonment to me.

But that wasn't all. The TSA also included in it's announcement for the first time the new fine of $11,000 and possible arrest for anyone who refused.

TSA worker Sari Koshetz was quoted in one report, "Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave that process."

http://townhall.com/columnists/KevinMcCullough/2010/11/21/obamas_tsa_decliners_fined_$11,000

Offline thundley4

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 08:16:26 PM »
This is to ensure compliance. Someone may decide not to fly if they get picked for the enhanced interrogation screening procedure , and if they do that, it must mean they are guilty.

Offline true_blood

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 08:21:49 PM »
An added bonus to redistribute the wealth I guess.

Offline PatriotGame

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2010, 09:53:36 PM »
Quote
News reports on Saturday reporting that the TSA was announcing warnings to would-be travelers that any "would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint but refuses to undergo the method of inspection as prescribed by the TSA workers on duty would not be allowed to fly, (but far more importantly)--would not be permitted to leave the airport."

Sounds like false imprisonment to me.

But that wasn't all. The TSA also included in it's announcement for the first time the new fine of $11,000 and possible arrest for anyone who refused.

TSA worker Sari Koshetz was quoted in one report, "Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave that process."

Greetings ladies and gentlemen!!!

Say hello to, and embrace the new "Federal Government healthcare FORCED compliance model"!


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Offline Eupher

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2010, 10:00:36 PM »
I wonder what the airlines are thinkin' about all this bullshit.

Kinda makes Amtrak and just plain driving a lot more attractive than to go through this kind of tyranny.
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Offline longview

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2010, 11:13:11 PM »
I like road trips! 

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2010, 01:31:25 AM »
The more this kind of draconian BS happens...the more airports will begin to opt out of the TSA and start hiring private screeners.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 08:57:50 AM »
The more this kind of draconian BS happens...the more airports will begin to opt out of the TSA and start hiring private screeners.

The private screeners will STILL be required to abide by TSA Rules & Standards.......
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 09:21:33 AM »
Something bothers me about this groping being done.  If that is the normal standard being used for enhanced pat downs, then why aren't there more complaints?  It seems like a few of the people doing the screening may be acting in an over zealous manner when they do these. Surely there have been thousands of these pat downs done but only a small number of egregious examples.

Offline Eupher

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 09:27:50 AM »
Something bothers me about this groping being done.  If that is the normal standard being used for enhanced pat downs, then why aren't there more complaints?  It seems like a few of the people doing the screening may be acting in an over zealous manner when they do these. Surely there have been thousands of these pat downs done but only a small number of egregious examples.

First off, not everybody has to go through the pat-down thing - only those who are ID'd as a potential risk. Next, the ID'd passenger has a choice - either go through the scanner or the patdown process.

So, I'd be willing to bet that most everybody who is ID'd as a potential risk undergoes the scanner thing because, presumably, it's quicker and less intrusive than the patdown.

Finally, the media are presenting this thing negatively in every possible way - not that I have a problem with it. But we are led to believe that they're groping every 3-year-old girl and forcing every mastectomy patient to go through patdowns and removal of prostheses (which isn't supposed to happen).

It strikes me that the anger hasn't reached a fever pitch (yet) due to these reasons.

Of course, YMMV.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 10:37:41 AM »
The private screeners will STILL be required to abide by TSA Rules & Standards.......

Forget it  Thor , this is the land of anyone can sue a ham sandwitch.

We have forgotten the law about Americans with disabilitys that ranges all over the scope.

I want to fly, at my own cost somewhere, as an American with disibilitys I refuse to allow anyone to toutch me but a doctor.-------I refuse to take off my glasses as then I cannot see what they are doing to me,[ there's a good one,] I cannot see without them clearly.    These strangers are going over my body with their hands can grab what they want and I cannot identify the person doing this.-------

Check into what the schools in America consider a disability with kids that has to hire people to train them to handle the world as they become adults.  the kids become adults that may or may not have benifited from their training.

So one with the disability due to brain dammage cannot read or write, they say win a free ticket to a resort somewhere and take along a friend with their own disabilitys, but neither can read the consent forms or have any idea why they cannot go aboard as perhaps both have flown before. Both object to having their JUNK felt and lash out at the screeners, Some one is going to get hurt here.

No pregnant woman will go through the exray machine so some person that may have been a waitress is now squeesing her belly, could set off premature labor and a baby could be lost.

TSA as it now is will not last for long, the frequent flyers are those that have some years to them, not people in the prime of life.   The retired woman and man who have never had their bodys examined by other then a Professional doctor

Give it a couple of weeks, the people that fly with anything but youth will take a boat to China or England.

Not long before cruse lines will be full up with Muslims the handicapped and people with young children.  

Amtrack will be overflowing with people that just want to get from here to there without having their butt or boobs felt up by strangers.

Here I am thinking of the Jews that out numbered the guards that were all of all sexes stripped of their clothing.  They could have fought back and survived perhaps except they were so humiliated and shocked that with no clothing and never being in this situation before, the promiss of anything to hide their body led to their death.

This is just a new hat for the same old thing.   And it will stop in days I believe.


For Thunderly4, -- say you have a family member that has been tramized by criminal in some way, rape or had a home invasion etc.  You know the member has gone through Hell and is a bit off with personal touching. People that get in her space way too close.  Young female or male 16 or so, .

You get plane tickets from family to fly the child out to see family.  Knowing what you do now, do you drive them, go by bus or Amtrack.

Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 12:01:11 PM »
First off, not everybody has to go through the pat-down thing - only those who are ID'd as a potential risk. Next, the ID'd passenger has a choice - either go through the scanner or the patdown process.

So, I'd be willing to bet that most everybody who is ID'd as a potential risk undergoes the scanner thing because, presumably, it's quicker and less intrusive than the patdown.

Finally, the media are presenting this thing negatively in every possible way - not that I have a problem with it. But we are led to believe that they're groping every 3-year-old girl and forcing every mastectomy patient to go through patdowns and removal of prostheses (which isn't supposed to happen).

It strikes me that the anger hasn't reached a fever pitch (yet) due to these reasons.

Of course, YMMV.

Actuallt Euph, I think that they grope anyone that opts out of the scanners, and additionally they select individuals at random for hand screening.......limited of course to only persons that are not likely a risk.

If you purchase a one-way ticket with cash, have no luggage, mutter "allu akbar" under your breath, and wear a scruffy beard, you get waved right through.......to do otherwise would piss off the ACLU and CAIR.

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Offline thundley4

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 12:06:01 PM »
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Guess Who Obama Was Traveling With Right Before He Defended Naked TSA Scanners? The CEO of Company That Makes the Scanners…
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/11/22/guess-who-obama-was-traveling-with-right-before-he-defended-naked-tsa-scanners-the-ceo-of-company-that-makes-the-scanners/

Offline Eupher

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 12:35:21 PM »
Actuallt Euph, I think that they grope anyone that opts out of the scanners, and additionally they select individuals at random for hand screening.......limited of course to only persons that are not likely a risk.

If you purchase a one-way ticket with cash, have no luggage, mutter "allu akbar" under your breath, and wear a scruffy beard, you get waved right through.......to do otherwise would piss off the ACLU and CAIR.

doc

That's not what I recently read, doc. I'll try to find a link when time permits. But it should go without saying that they (TSA) ALWAYS have recourse to grab anybody who THEY think looks "risky" and shake 'em down. Whether that's a 65-year-old grandma or a redhead who hangs out on CC doesn't really matter. They can grab whoever they want for virtually any reason.

Beyond that, though, and the main crux of my statement is that the media are doing their damndest to make it look like 75% or more of the people waiting in the security line are being groped - I'm not seeing that's the case.

If it were the case, we'd be seeing and hearing about a whole bunch of pissed off people - not just the few reporters who are trying to convince us that this is a widespread, problematic thing.

I'd like to hear from those who have recently gone through the process - Sparky, for one, and anybody else who has flown in the past week.

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Offline Eupher

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2010, 12:43:42 PM »
Not sure if this has been posted yet - TSA's "spin" on the scanner:

http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/faqs.shtm

The media are effective, though, in braying about all this "groping". Penn Jillette called the cops in a recent incident in which he said he was groped.

Most of us have probably read that account of the bladder cancer survivor who has to carry a urine bag and while being searched, the seal on his ostomy was disturbed, causing a urine leak.

More and more people are going to be complaining about this, but as it stands right now, TSA isn't budging.

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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 01:12:06 PM »
That's not what I recently read, doc. I'll try to find a link when time permits. But it should go without saying that they (TSA) ALWAYS have recourse to grab anybody who THEY think looks "risky" and shake 'em down. Whether that's a 65-year-old grandma or a redhead who hangs out on CC doesn't really matter. They can grab whoever they want for virtually any reason.

Beyond that, though, and the main crux of my statement is that the media are doing their damnedest to make it look like 75% or more of the people waiting in the security line are being groped - I'm not seeing that's the case.

If it were the case, we'd be seeing and hearing about a whole bunch of pissed off people - not just the few reporters who are trying to convince us that this is a widespread, problematic thing.

I'd like to hear from those who have recently gone through the process - Sparky, for one, and anybody else who has flown in the past week.



Actually I was being snarky.......I should have used a sarcasm tag......

Personally I don't give a crap what they do, because I refuse to fly until they devise a system that is far less intrusive to the travelling public.  What we have now is just "feel good" crap designed to make the proles feel as though the government is actually doing something constructive.......

If someone really wanted to sabotage a flight, there are a thousand ways that groping passengers (or scanning them) wouldn't catch.  Present procedures are effective only against the "mental midgets", a dedicated, intelligent, and patient saboteur would easily find a way......

I understand that not everyone has this capability, but in the rare instance I need to fly somewhere, I rent our local flying club's ancient Beech Queen Air........it's old and tempermental, but since they bought it for almost nothing from a company in bankruptcy, it's cheap, very plush, relatively fast, and they are thrilled to rent it for very little, as no one else seems to want to fly it much.  I can load up the wife, dogs, kids, grandkids, and four hundred pounds of luggage (Mrs. Doc doesn't travel "light").......and usually do it for less than commercial tickets (and baggage charges) would cost.  Best of all.....no security.......

doc
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Offline Thor

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2010, 01:44:30 PM »
Keep in mind that the ramp rats had a heavy hand in 9/11. (Ramp rats= airport ground crew, you know, the one's that throw your baggage around like a football)

NONE of the 9/11 hijackers had any reason on them to be stopped by security. Even now, NONE of the plots to blow up aircraft have arisen FROM the US, they originated in other countries and we were lucky enough to be tipped off, have the plot FAIL (the shoe bomber & the underwear bomber), or otherwise prevent them from boarding the aircraft. What IS being accomplished is that the Muslims terrorists have won. We have relenquished our liberties in lieu of safety.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2010, 02:28:27 PM »
Actually I was being snarky.......I should have used a sarcasm tag......

Personally I don't give a crap what they do, because I refuse to fly until they devise a system that is far less intrusive to the travelling public.  What we have now is just "feel good" crap designed to make the proles feel as though the government is actually doing something constructive.......

If someone really wanted to sabotage a flight, there are a thousand ways that groping passengers (or scanning them) wouldn't catch.  Present procedures are effective only against the "mental midgets", a dedicated, intelligent, and patient saboteur would easily find a way......

I understand that not everyone has this capability, but in the rare instance I need to fly somewhere, I rent our local flying club's ancient Beech Queen Air........it's old and tempermental, but since they bought it for almost nothing from a company in bankruptcy, it's cheap, very plush, relatively fast, and they are thrilled to rent it for very little, as no one else seems to want to fly it much.  I can load up the wife, dogs, kids, grandkids, and four hundred pounds of luggage (Mrs. Doc doesn't travel "light").......and usually do it for less than commercial tickets (and baggage charges) would cost.  Best of all.....no security.......

doc

Having a pilot's license is definitely an advantage. I'm envious.

I've never been one to fly much anyway, and definitely since 9/11 am I reluctant to get on a plane, but with this new level of TSA tyranny going on, **** 'em.

I'll drive. Or take Amtrak.
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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2010, 03:04:44 PM »
Having a pilot's license is definitely an advantage. I'm envious.

I've never been one to fly much anyway, and definitely since 9/11 am I reluctant to get on a plane, but with this new level of TSA tyranny going on, **** 'em.

I'll drive. Or take Amtrak.

Yeah.....now that We're retired, that is our preferred mode.  We usually get together with all of our children and grandkids at Christmas at some scenic location for a week or so.  This year we're going to Williamsburg, and it looks like a leasurely three-day drive, taking the scenic route. 

I've never tried Amtrak, and should look into it, on the occasions that I've considered it, unfortunately they didn't go where we were heading.  Gone are the days........

doc
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Offline Thor

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2010, 07:53:27 PM »
 I can load up the wife, dogs, kids, grandkids, and four hundred pounds of luggage (Mrs. Doc doesn't travel "light").......and usually do it for less than commercial tickets (and baggage charges) would cost.  Best of all.....no security.......

doc

Do ANY women travel "light"???  :o  :bolt:
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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2010, 08:25:38 PM »
Do ANY women travel "light"???  :o  :bolt:

None that I've ever known.....

 :fuelfire:

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Offline Eupher

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2010, 09:14:31 PM »
Do ANY women travel "light"???  :o  :bolt:

Bitchslap for asking a dumb question.  :hyper:
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Offline Thor

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2010, 11:17:41 PM »
Bitchslap for asking a dumb question.  :hyper:

Back at ya for not perceiving said question as "rhetorical"...... (as indicated by the smileys, etc)
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2010, 06:31:44 AM »
Keep in mind that the ramp rats had a heavy hand in 9/11. (Ramp rats= airport ground crew, you know, the one's that throw your baggage around like a football)

NONE of the 9/11 hijackers had any reason on them to be stopped by security. Even now, NONE of the plots to blow up aircraft have arisen FROM the US, they originated in other countries and we were lucky enough to be tipped off, have the plot FAIL (the shoe bomber & the underwear bomber), or otherwise prevent them from boarding the aircraft. What IS being accomplished is that the Muslims terrorists have won. We have relenquished our liberties in lieu of safety.

NEXT UP---The MALLS.

One Mall forbids customers from wearing head scarves unless you carry a bracelet that reads, I AM SICK.    Reason--Gang members wear colored scarves to denote their gang.  People Magazine last year had a story of a 35 year old cancer survivor that had lost her hair and was told she had to demean herself by wearing a bracelet to shop at that Mall.

Baby steps, here, on Hollidays when the Malls have thousands of shoppers the Mall puts in those metal detectors. The idea is to keep out gang members and teens just hanging out getting in the way of shoppers that have money to spend.

Once inside the doors of the Mall if one complains they can be arrested or fined. The customers have no right to just walk out, they cannot choose to shop elsewhere.

Then the profiling begins, all men in biker jackets and tattoos are suspicious, All woman that appear to be 50 pounds over weight are checked out, they may be BOOSTERS. 

For security reasons it may be a good idea to do as BJ'S does and check all packages leaving the Mall and one must have all recipes in hand.

Anyone leaving the mall without buying anything is to be singled out as a possible shoplifter.

Children under the age of 7 are all searched as little kids do tend to pocket things they want--

Thor, I started this out as Satire, on rereading this however I can see how strange things like this can become.

Baby steps to changing our life style --for our own good.  You are so correct on giving up freedom for what we are told is our own good.---We are filmed without our knowledge every where we go in public, even inside our own homes if we draw the curtains open anyone with a good zoom lens can stand off property and film you through the open drapes. 

 If one lives in an apartment with common walls some pervert may drill a hole in the connecting bathroom walls to place those itty bitty spy cameras and film your 8 year old daughter taking a bath.  What is the fine for invasion of privacy,---CHUMP CHANGE.

We have to face it that for safety we must now become paranoid as when you wish to contract for a service, one now has to allow themselves to have even their underware checked.

When the Plumber refuses to come into my home to fix a broken pipe but insists he has to strip search me, then I will consider buying an abandoned oil rig and live out there in the North Sea somewhere.

Look what happend to me, my PC was arrested, just seized from my home with no real reason told to me, what next, will my bank accounts be frozen, not by the IRS but by any small town Police that demand an accounting for something they will not tell me about.

Offline dutch508

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Re: Obama's TSA: Decliners Fined $11,000
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2010, 07:59:48 AM »
After reading your posts, Vesta, you still wonder why your CPU was 'arrested'?

Did they read it it's rights?

Were you thrown to the ground and tazed?

Kicked by evil looking guys in black armor?

Raped by soldiers in Blue Helmets?

Beaten because your dress was immodest?

No?

Then Shut the **** Up and get in the back of the bus.
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!