"Attorney General Holder has indicted the former president for ordering torture.

[dandi]

This is one masturbatory fantasy that will never die. It's the DU version of some pubescent kid's Playboy magazine, its page stuck together with hand lotion and coagulated semen, that he keeps under the mattress and hauls out often to relieve the tension.

originalpckelly  (1000+ posts)        Thu Nov-11-10 12:29 PM
Original message
"Attorney General Holder has indicted the former president for ordering torture."
 Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 12:39 PM by originalpckelly
What do you think would happen if that was to be a real headline? Civil war. Plainly put, civil war. At the very least riots, and almost certainly civil war.

This may be the reason we'll never really see a prosecution of Bush for torture. Obama has not formally pardoned him, but it's kind of understood that torture investigations are just not happening. It's a pardon without the political consequences for Obama.

However, civil war or not, he must prosecute. At risk is America's soul. This nation has done some terrible things, but usually it gets past those things and triumphs over the forces within it that want the terrible things to continue. How do we triumph over the forces that want to torture, if the president that ordered it walks free? You think these people will just fade away? HELL NO! They will come back, and they will do this again, only it will be other "bad people" they torture. You know, the kind that we think shouldn't be tortured right now. Regular criminals, not terrorists. How long until we do it to them? And if it hasn't already happened, when will torture innocent people? Although Bush hasn't admitted to the torture that went on Abu Graib, it seems incredibly strange to me that torture went on there, using some of the reported torture techniques used on the so-called "bad guys". And as I understand it, there were some innocent folks at Abu Graib.

SO, WHAT DO WE DO? Do we force the issue, and risk civil war? Do we leave it alone and move forward, risking America's real morality? (Not the kind the fundies talk about, but the kind that keeps us doing good things in the world.)

If there is anything in this world worth fighting for, it is our deepest moral beliefs. It is NOT a valid position to approve torture. It just isn't. It never will be.

The forces in this nation that believe torture acceptable must be overcome.

The security we hold so dear will be threatened if we don't. One way or the other we're ****ed here folks. We might as well go down the path that has a possible good outcome.

Our side must force the issue, we must do it everyday, until Obama's team decides to prosecute.

If you think we can safely go on with an element in our nation that believes in such heinous things as torture, you're a moron.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9536722

Demeter  (1000+ posts)        Thu Nov-11-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. People Would Pour Into the Public Spaces in Joy 
 If there was any civil war, it would be only the Pentagon and CIA.

If we have to throw in the current administration to sweeten the pot, for the crime of continuing the torture and the cover up and NOT prosecuting, oh, well! That's one way to bipartisanship and national unity!

CaliforniaPeggy  (1000+ posts)        Thu Nov-11-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. We've got one hell of a tiger by the tail here...
 And we're ****ed no matter what we do...

But if we choose to fight, to force the issue, then at least we've done the right thing. No matter what happens ...

I agree with your stance completely.

Recommended.


And I just realized that today is Veteran's Day. This post is even more appropriate, once you consider that. Those veterans died so that we could have a moral, free country.

Did they die in vain?

Vincardog  (1000+ posts)      Thu Nov-11-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Do we force the issue, and risk civil war? They have been warring on us for years anyway. I will no
 longer be afraid of what gutless bullies might do.

originalpckelly  (1000+ posts)        Thu Nov-11-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It's been pot that it slowly starting to boil over.
 I have been warning about this for literally years now. The wiretapping thing did it for me. Then I started learning about things like the Bybee memo, and it just became clear that we're not dealing with honest differences here, this is something fundamental and impossible to bargain away, this is about what we believe in.

 

These idiots can speak high and mightily about justifications for civil war because they know before the first shots would be fired they'd be hightailing into the hills or running to Canada or whatever it is cowards would do in such a situation.

Besides, civil war under such a scenario is just another one of their sick fantasies anyway. There might be violent protests from those opposed to such an insane prosecution, but no civilian outside of a few wackos would take up arms against those protesting just so that George Bush could be prosecuted for wetting the faces of three murderous terrorists.

Funny how DUmmies claim they would risk it though, watching other Americans die to defend terrorists from being made uncomfortable. Real patriots, they are.
 


 
 

 

[TheSarge]

The one handed typing of teh DUmmies gets better every year.

[Carl]

Dear DUmmies,

Your self produced angst and misery from wishing for things that are never going to happen gives me great pleasure and joy.  

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

But if we don't preserve the legal authority to waterboard president-elect Palin will never be able to determine who ordered the New Black Panthers Party case dropped.

 

[thundley4]

The DUmmies are so ****ed up by Bush Derangement Syndrome that they would rather see a civil war than President go free of the imaginary crimes he committed.

[ExGeeEye]

I keep saying--

Let them fire the first shot or two-- then unleash hell.

[Tucker]

The DUng heap needs to come up with a different rallying cry. This one is getting stale. It was used with President Nixon, the first person I voted for BTW.

They've had 42 years to come up with something new. I mean, come on man, out of the 42 years, they have been in power for 14.

Tx. Thanks for your service.

[TheSarge]

Tx. Thanks for your service.

Thank you for supporting us!

[Airwolf]

Ok Lets say that they get their way,I say we should be able to haul Clinton in next for the murder of the 18 Rangers during the "Blackhawk Down" Mission for failing to give them all the support they requested and would have saved their lives . Thats 18 counts of Murder. Want to bet that the Sentance for that will be a bit stiffer for Clinton then what Bush would get?

[thundley4]

Ok Lets say that they get their way,I say we should be able to haul Clinton in next for the murder of the 18 Rangers during the "Blackhawk Down" Mission for failing to give them all the support they requested and would have saved their lives . Thats 18 counts of Murder. Want to bet that the Sentance for that will be a bit stiffer for Clinton then what Bush would get?

How about Jimmy Carter for the deaths that occurred during the failed hostage rescue mission in Iran?

[seabelle]

Do they realize how many innocent lives were saved via waterboarding?   As I recall, there were many major attacks prevented.....how does that make them feel ?  What idiots.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I'm just speculating here, but I would expect there would be other, rather dangerous people implicated if any such indictment were to actually result in a trial.  Those people are not necessarily directly associated with the formal and official US Government or obedient to its processes, and once any such game is set in motion, the outcome would be quite unpredictable.

[dandi]

originalpckelly  (1000+ posts)        Thu Nov-11-10 12:29 PM
Original message
SO, WHAT DO WE DO? Do we force the issue, and risk civil war? Do we leave it alone and move forward, risking America's real morality? (Not the kind the fundies talk about, but the kind that keeps us doing good things in the world.)

How about you just shut the **** up and finish my Whopper, DUmbass, I'm hungry.

[true_blood]

Do they realize how many innocent lives were saved via waterboarding?   As I recall, there were many major attacks prevented.....how does that make them feel ?  What idiots.

^^Exactly.
You ignorant ****s. You lowlife scum. You would rather those subhumans not be water-boarded and risk another possible attack against America or one of our allies?! You do know that they want to kill Americans, right?! Can you DUmmies comprehend that? Doesn't matter if you're "for" them or "against" them, they want American blood. Wake up idiots.

[miskie]

The Magnificence of 'Teh R0v3' knows no bounds. Instead of laying malfeasance upon the land during the lame duck session, the Democrats are going to be all tied up chasing ghosts instead.

Hopefully they continue to be distracted for the next couple of years.

[Freeper]

Hey DUmmies if Pelosi had one single shred of evidence that bush did as much as jaywalk during his time in the oval office she would have had chimpeachment on the table so fast even your tiny primitive minds would spin.