Healthcare is a privilege or a right?

[lilJimmy]

As a society we need to have unity.  Does leaving healthcare coverage in private hand count as unity?
I watched my mother-in-law die of cancer for two years while she could not afford to be in a private club of proper health coverage.  It was a nightmare to deal with!
The www.americanchristiansociety.com says it is wrong to leave healthcare in private hands.
The strength of a society can be measured by how it treats its weakest members.
So I guess my question is:  Should healthcare coverage be a society thing or private hands?
Cheers!

[dutch508]

First, welcome to CC.

Second, Unity? Says who?

Thirdly, Playing the Christian card to support healthcare doesn't work. Christ didn't say "Let the Romans feed the poor". He said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Last- Sod off.

[DefiantSix]

You have the right to take care of your health to the best of your ability.

You have the right to contract the services of others better able to assist in your personal health care than you may be.

You do not have the right to take the services of those "health care providers" at gunpoint.  Slavery was made illegal in this country over 150 years ago.  Doctors were not exempted from the 13th Amendment.

[cavegal]

The government does not have the right to tell me how to have health care. The government does not have the privilege to say who lives and who dies

[formerlurker]

Health insurance is a benefit that employers extend to recruit and retain employees. Any other questions?

[Carl]

No,as a society we need to have freedom,true unity or as close as one can get to it results from that freedom.

A false "unity" can be had...it is at the expense of freedom and is called communism.

You would do well to read and understand what you wish for and put the emotions off to the side.
You assume that some other care could have saved her but present no evidence of it.
While it is sad for any family and do extend sympathies for your loss I do think you are perhaps twisting events which many have faced to serve a political desire.

[TVDOC]

You have the right to take care of your health to the best of your ability.

You have the right to contract the services of others better able to assist in your personal health care than you may be.

You do not have the right to take the services of those "health care providers" at gunpoint.  Slavery was made illegal in this country over 150 years ago.  Doctors were not exempted from the 13th Amendment.

And........you DO NOT have the right to take my wealth (what there is of it) to pay for the healthcare of others........

doc

[Eupher]

 

WTF is this "unity" kumbaya bullshit?

liljimmy, have you been drinking the U.N. Kool-Aid?

Like Carl said, sorry for your loss - but once you start bringing in this "unity" bullshit, you start looking like a hand-wringing, snot-nosed, limp-dick liberal who thinks that the answers to life's problems include and involve the government.

Besides, there is no guarantee that your MIL wouldn't have died anyway, as cold and callous as that sounds.

So the answer to your question:

Healthcare is a service provided by a business. Businesses generally operate on a for-profit basis. Therefore, a business that provides healthcare is generally compensated by parties who have a vested interest in the transaction.

Trust me - I ain't interested in somebody's healthcare transaction unless that "somebody" is important to me. Speaking as a taxpayer, that "somebody" isn't important to me unless they're a family member.

Cutting to the chase: Healthcare is NEITHER a privilege nor a right. It is a service provided by professionals. You want it? You pay for it, or make arrangements to pay for it from YOUR resources, not the taxpayer's.

[Doc]

As a society we need to have unity.

Why??  Americans have always held divergent views on many (if not all) issues.......there is no "unity" in freedom, and a Constitutional republic....all are free to hold and express their own views.

 Does leaving healthcare coverage in private hand count as unity?

No (see above) since "unity" in America is a false premise to begin with, this statement is redundant.......

I watched my mother-in-law die of cancer for two years while she could not afford to be in a private club of proper health coverage.  It was a nightmare to deal with!

Sorry for your loss........five years ago I also watched my brother die of lung cancer (caveat: he never smoked a cigarette in his life).  He had access to very good healthcare, but is gone none the less.......your situation, although sad is not unique, people die of dread diseases every second of every day.  Government mandated health care would likely have provided him with far poorer care than he received.

The www.americanchristiansociety.com says it is wrong to leave healthcare in private hands.
The strength of a society can be measured by how it treats its weakest members.

And factually America treats it weakest far better than any other nation on earth.........our "poor" would qualify as middle to upper class in 70% of the nations on the planet.  America rushes to the aid of any people when disaster strikes, our military men and women were the first on the ground following the tsunami in the Pacific, earthquakes in South America and Haiti, it was AMERICAN engineering know-how that rescued the miners in the last few weeks in Chile, anywhere people are in need, Americans are there.......with both government resources as well as private ones.....all provided without compensation or repayment.....a simple "thank you" is more than enough........and frankly we rarely get that.......

So I guess my question is:  Should healthcare coverage be a society thing or private hands?

Absolutely in private hands.......healthcare in the hands of private enterprise has provided the best system in the world.  Capitalism is the engine that drives research, new cures, cutting edge treatment protocols and new drugs that benefit all, rich and poor alike.......to place this in the hands of incompetent drones that cannot run a post office, railroad, or anything else efficiently and profitably would result in lowering the level of care for everyone, stifling research and development, and force our greatest medical talent either out of the field, or elsewhere.

Here in the middle of the country we have a colloquialism that applies:

If it isn't broke.....don't fix it......."

doc

[Attero Dominatus]

So-called 'positive rights' obligate people to perform services for others.

The left can go on about how healthcare is a 'right,' but they will never see the fact that medical treatment is a service. Forcing people to perform any service for others with little to no compensation is essentially communism.

[MrsSmith]

So-called 'positive rights' obligate people to perform services for others.

The left can go on about how healthcare is a 'right,' but they will never see the fact that medical treatment is a service. Forcing people to perform any service for others with little to no compensation is essentially communism.

essentially theft...



lilJimmy, would you be happy with giving up 65% of your income to save MY grandma, uncle, cousin, or whoever?  How about 55%?  How about 45%?  How many total strangers do you want to support?  And would you prefer to help out by giving as much as you possibly can?  Would you want to decide how much you can give...or do you want ME to decide how much you must give?   


In all seriousness, this is the right way to take care of this issue. 

[Thor]

There used to be a significant number of Catholic or Christian run hospitals. They were all not for profit and did many charitable treatments. It makes me wonder exactly WHO ran them out of business?? My guess is the AMA, the cost of becoming a Doctor and the dollar signs involved with for-profit Hospitals.

[true_blood]

So I guess my question is:  Should healthcare coverage be a society thing or private hands?
Cheers!

First off, sorry to hear about your mother in law. That is terrible to hear.
Health care, a society thing? NOPE!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Health care is not a privilege.

Health care is a right.

Because it is a right government has an obligation to "promote the general welfare". By promoting the general welfare it protects citizens from force and fraud with the consent of the electorate.

But the government cannot PROVIDE rights because whatever it can provide it can take away. That is why we have freedom of religion to enshrine our right to freedom of conscience but the government cannot provide churches because then it can take away freedom of conscience by dictating what is said in the pulpit.

Capice?

[Freeper]

Federal law mandates that in a life threatening situation they must treat you in the ER whether you can pay or not.
So in a way the feds already made health care a right.
Even if it weren't for the federal law most if not all doctors would treat someone who is going to die whether they can pay or not. As an added bonus if you are here illegally you get it all for free.

[MrsSmith]

There used to be a significant number of Catholic or Christian run hospitals. They were all not for profit and did many charitable treatments. It makes me wonder exactly WHO ran them out of business?? My guess is the AMA, the cost of becoming a Doctor and the dollar signs involved with for-profit Hospitals.

Actually, my Catholic owned hospital gave away 7 million dollars worth of treatments in 2008.  I haven't heard the figure for 2009.  My dialysis unit, which is a separate entity, is currently treating an illegal.  He has no insurance, no money, and can't qualify for Medicare, so we're writing off his treatments.

One of the things that damaged charity care was the advances in medicine.  When a hospital must spend multi-millions for CT, MRI, and other "basic" healthcare equipment, someone has to pay for that equipment...and it's repairs...and it's accessories...and all the other extremely expensive equipment to go with it, like patient monitors and networking for the electronic health information.

Another is the very high cost of liability insurance.  We've never gotten to the point of removing human error 100%, and a nurse's moment of thoughtlessness can cost a facility several million in legal costs and settlement money.

Oh, and then, of course, Uncle Sam has written regulations that increase all these costs by several times.  I find it quite ironic that with one hand, "he" writes books and books full of regulations that cost us millions per year and thousands of man-hours...then with "his" other hand, writes "himself" into full control of the entire industry. 

I'm sure lilJimmy understands all this...   

[SoCalLady]

The fact of the matter is there simply isn't enough money in the US for everyone to get everything they might want for health care if it were free (to them.)  The question is who will make the decision as to what to spend and on whom.  In the private system the patient and his insurer will make that decision.  In socialized medicine, the government will decide.  Depending on your mother in laws age and what type of cancer she had and how expensive it would be to treat, it's likely that she would not have been given the care that you seem to think she should have been given. 

Personally, I vote to have the patient make his medical decisions (and pay for them.)

[Thor]

If people want FREE (well, almost free) health care, they could almost certainly join the military, serve twenty or more years and they're set for life, at least for now. Low pay, LONG hours, "jobs that Americans don't want to do" and all that.....

[NHSparky]

So I guess my question is:  Should healthcare coverage be a society thing or private hands?
Cheers!

Bitchslapped for asking a stupid question.

Healthcare coverage is a COMMODITY.  Not a right, not a privilege.