Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain

[bijou]

Hope And Change (793 posts)      Sat Mar-29-08 06:56 PM
Original message
Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain
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McCain lost five U.S. Navy aircraft.


Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.

His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.

During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.

Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.

After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.

The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."

For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."

For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.

McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.


http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mcc...

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/index.h...

 

galaxy21 (214 posts)      Sat Mar-29-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It's not nice, or right...but it is effective...

FrenchieCat  (1000+ posts)       Sat Mar-29-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It is good to have in case it is needed.....
 Although McCain will be restricted by public financing rules, the 527s will be out there. Soooo, you never know! Depends on how out of line they get.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5310122#5310223

[TheSarge]

What a bunch of f*cknuts.

[Chris_]

I suspect most or all of this is pure BS.  Attacking McCain's hero status is NOT the same as attacking j f'ing kerry's.

They go this direction at their peril.

[bijou]

I suspect most or all of this is pure BS.  Attacking McCain's hero status is NOT the same as attacking j f'ing kerry's.

They go this direction at their peril.

I suspect few if any actual veterans are involved in the production of this. Jesse MacBeth lives on.

[Mr Mannn]

a poor man's attempt at swiftboating.

McCain was tortured in a VC Prison Camp.
Kerry got a purple heart for grains of rice piercing his but.
--> ultimately who will get more respect?

Freedumb is right: "They go this direction at their peril."

[Crazy Horse]

Do I unerstand this correctly............plane number 5 which was shot down, is one of the downed aircraft that make McCain a bad pilot???

[Georgia Bulldog]

An even better question, how does the fact that one of his planes was destroyed in the Forrestal fire make him a bad pilot?

[phillygirl]

They appear to be Republicans

[Crazy Horse]

They appear to be Republicans

I don't give a damn who they are..................he is being blamed for losing aircraft number 4 for a zunni rocket that fired from another plane into his on the flight deck of the USS Forrestal.

Being republican, independent or demonrat.................I don't understand what that has to do with this. Actually I will say that being a group that brings up bullshit like this puts them in the sam category as the Westboro Babtist church as evangelicals

[Chris_]

An even better question, how does the fact that one of his planes was destroyed in the Forrestal fire make him a bad pilot?

Bad parking, I guess.

[dandi]

There is no comparison between McCain and Kerry. I'm not a big fan of McCain politically, but as far as I know, McCain did not exaggerate his exploits like Kerry did, nor did he come back to the U.S. badmouthing other vets.

As for as what he did under duress while at the Hanoi Hilton, I'm not about to judge him for that unless there's evidence of some wholesale sellout. Everyone cracks under torture, it's just a matter of time. Real life isn't an episode of 24 and no one is Jack Bauer.

[dutch508]

Phillygirl defending lying liberals.

will wonders never stop?

 

[Georgia Bulldog]

An even better question, how does the fact that one of his planes was destroyed in the Forrestal fire make him a bad pilot?

Bad parking, I guess.

If only they had the valet parking the way the carrier in 'Hot Shots' did, then McCain may have gotten off the hook for that one.

[Lord Undies]

The liberals have a real problem with McCain being the Republican presidential candidate.  The liberals have spent years slobbering over McCain and worshipping his "maverick" stance against Republican principles.  How can McCain all of the sudden be a bad guy now?  Won't that make the liberals seem hypocritical, insincere, and shallow?   

[dutch508]

Now, my lord, I know you meant shallow and only typed swallow...

[Lord Undies]

Now, my lord, I know you meant shallow and only typed swallow...

Indeed.  I haven't had dinner yet.  I have swallow on the brain.

[dutch508]

I know what you mean. I am getting ready for bed.

[Chris_]

I know what you mean. I am getting ready for bed.

The word "swallow" certainly links to that :) ;)

[LadyLiberty]

a poor man's attempt at swiftboating.

McCain was tortured in a VC Prison Camp.
Kerry got a purple heart for grains of rice piercing his but.
--> ultimately who will get more respect?

Freedumb is right: "They go this direction at their peril."

You're right about a 'poor man's attempt at swiftboating' 

As a sidenote, your avatar is a hoot 

[Airwolf]

This is one bus that I think we can all let pass us by and never bother to try and catch. McCain is  alot of things and some are not liked by Conservatives but he sure as hell isn't John Fing Kerry.

[Chris_]

There are much better reasons not to vote for McCain.
His luck as a pilot seems a bit uneven to say the least, sheesh, you may be safer taking that ride home from Ted Kennedy than flying with McCain...

[RedTail]

There are much better reasons not to vote for McCain.
His luck as a pilot seems a bit uneven to say the least, sheesh, you may be safer taking that ride home from Ted Kennedy than flying with McCain...

But I think McCain would go back for my drowning behind.

*Red*

[phillygirl]

Phillygirl defending lying liberals.

will wonders never stop?

 

You want to point out where I defended them?  Or is this just more of your honest review?

[DumbAss Tanker]

I never thought he was exactly Scott Crosfield as a pilot, and never doubted his military career owed as much to lineage as to his own merits (like anyone backing Hillary can complain about success by association), but I believe a good chunk of those awards were not for a couple dozen combat missions in the air but for six years of leadership and suffering in captivity.

They want to go down this road, they'll regret it.

[phillygirl]

I never thought he was exactly Scott Crosfield as a pilot, and never doubted his military career owed as much to lineage as to his own merits (like anyone backing Hillary can complain about success by association), but I believe a good chunk of those awards were not for a couple dozen combat missions in the air but for six years of leadership and suffering in captivity.

They want to go down this road, they'll regret it.

He's never claimed that he was an ace pilot.  In fact, he frequently jokes about his poor class standings at Annapolis and his book is full of self-deprecating stories of his enjoyment of his time in clubs and bars that at least equaled his enjoyment of flyings.

He was initially given special privileges when he was captured, and was offered the opportunity to go home immediately.  His own sense of honor and integrity prohibited that and he remained until they all got out.