Author Topic: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?  (Read 3512 times)

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Offline thundley4

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Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« on: October 04, 2010, 05:01:47 PM »
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missheidi (68 posts)           Sat Oct-02-10 11:06 PM
Original message
So I was watching a special on Jonestown...
   
and the way they're describing Jim Jones (a fear-monger, lying about the government, etc.)...it's a bit Beck-ish. I guess we know who his idol is.
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The Northerner (1000+ posts)             Sat Oct-02-10 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I remember watching a program on Jonestown a while back
   
and it amazed me that he was capable of convincing so many people to believe him despite how insane he was.

Kind of like Obama. 

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merqz (203 posts)           Sat Oct-02-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Willie Brown called him...
   
the following": "Let me present to you what you should see every day when you look in the mirror in the early morning hours ... Let me present to you a combination of Martin King, Angela Davis, Albert Einstein ... Chairman Mao."

also, per wikipedia... First Lady Rosalynn Carter also personally met with Jones on multiple occasions, corresponded with him about Cuba, and spoke with him at the grand opening of the San Francisco Democratic Party Headquarters where Jones garnered louder applause than Mrs. Carter.<42><44><45>

This guy was exceptionally charismatic and a great speaker. It's the CLASSIC cult of personality.

Kind of like Obama?

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Name removed (0 posts)           Sat Oct-02-10 11:33 PM
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2. Deleted message
   
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

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CountAllVotes   (1000+ posts)           Sun Oct-03-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Jim Jones was plain evil
   
you can call him left wing or right wing. He'd swing with any way the door would go as long as it was in his favor.

Evil cult leader is what this man was. Good damn riddance!

He was a lefty. Kind of like Obama?

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merqz (203 posts)           Sun Oct-03-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Dispute the truth all you want
   
He was evil. He was also an avowed unwavering leftist. The OP compared him to Beck. In many ways, he was Beck'ish. But he was a leftwing Beck, to a far greater degree. Read the whole article. Research it. This is a man who had Harvey Milk, Willie Brown, Rosalyn Carter, Moscone, etc. all supporting him and meeting with him. This is a man who moved to San Francisco, got involved with the politics there (Housing Authority etc.) and founded the People's Temple. This is a man who over and over again professed and exercised his adherence to far left principles. The evidence is there. Political ideology and evil are tangential. There are evil people on the left and on the right. He was evil from the left.

Kind of like Obama?

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CountAllVotes   (1000+ posts)           Sun Oct-03-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. what do you know?
   
Edited on Mon Oct-04-10 12:08 AM by CountAllVotes
I know people that lived through the horror of Guyana and all were innocent.

It is pointless to state that they were left wing or right wing. Fact is that most are now dead and those that survived are mental wrecks.

Think what you like from the movies you've watched and some article that you read. I know people that lived through it and I do not need to read or watch anything more about it, and no, the person I am thinking of was quite conventional, if anything conservative. Enough already and let those that died RIP please!

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merqz (203 posts)           Mon Oct-04-10 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. absolutely wrong
   
Edited on Mon Oct-04-10 02:57 AM by merqz
First of all, if he was insane, he ceases to be evil. Because if he was

I quote YOU: "Evil cult leader is what this man was", not to mention the title of your post.

Now,all of a sudden he was insane.

So, which is it? He was EVIL!! He was also an avowed leftist, which isn't even remotely debatable. The idea that you can call him a conservative is laughable to the core. It's like a no true scotsman fallacy on crack. "Well, he can't be a leftist because organizing a mass suicide is not what a true leftist would do ". lol

Here's my point. I strike back against dishonesty, myopia, and prejudice. You simply cannot admit that a profoundly evil man also happened to be a leftist. What I realize is that a bad man can be a leftist, a rightwinger, or be essentially apolitical. Political sensibility doesn't define one's morality. All mass murdering dictators were leftists

You couldn't ask for a more clear leftist pedigree than Jim Jones had. It's not remotely arguable. We can go point by point, but clearly you aren't interested in facts.

Let's pretend for a second that Jim Jones worshipped at the altar of Ayn Rand. He hobnobbed with rightwingers. He was feted by rightwingers. He founded a church based on conservative principles. He spoke favorably about capitalism as being our salvation. etc. You would NEVER argue he wasn't conservative.

Well, here's a hint. His pedigree is pure. What more do you want as proof he was leftist. For pete's sake... I love this kind of cognitive dissonance you display.




Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 05:09:15 PM »
DUmmie said....It is pointless to state that they were left wing or right wing. Fact is that most are now dead and those that survived are mental wrecks.

They were mental wrecks to start with......now all you DUmp monkeys need to commit suicide is an Jim Jones to lead you.
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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 05:11:19 PM »
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 05:42:22 PM »
Does Beck have a bunch of people enslaved on a plantation somewhere?
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Offline BEG

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 05:47:07 PM »
I think this DUmmie read my thread about the show this weekend in the lounge.

Offline jukin

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 05:55:46 PM »
I have many conversations with liberals that when they are presented with facts to support my view, they say "Well, I could get figures to support my view too." Yyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeettttt, they do not supply said evidence to support their view point.  If you argue a point don't you need to have a foundation for your viewpoint?  Not if you are a liberal, talking points only need apply.
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Offline true_blood

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 07:18:44 PM »
Funny how all mass murderers were leftist, huh?!?! Ever figure that one out yet, DUmmies?! :censored:

Offline vesta111

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 09:06:00 AM »
Funny how all mass murderers were leftist, huh?!?! Ever figure that one out yet, DUmmies?! :censored:

A long time ago, so to refresh my memory---------http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

At this time of the happening I was in California changing diapers and trying to survive my offspring.

What I remember the most was an article in the paper of the number of followers that had taken out loans on their home to send to Jones to build them homes when they arrived to join him.

He was a raciest by all accounts but hid it well.   It was numbered in the hundreds and hundreds of small Black Churches that went bankrupt, some big Black Cherities folded as well.  What a mess, the people that followed then signed over all assists to him, this was quite the scam.

Did he commit suicide, who knows, I think not.

When one or more of his followers realised that this was not a drill for White Nights and realised people were dropping like flys, dead around them, I believe they had access to a bundle of the church money and fled with it.

Could be he was set up by the advisers to take the fall for their actions.

So where did all that money go now that most of them are dead.?   




Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 09:09:27 AM »

So where did all that money go now that most of them are dead.?   


Jones willed it to the U.S.S.R.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 09:11:39 AM »
A long time ago, so to refresh my memory---------http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

At this time of the happening I was in California changing diapers and trying to survive my offspring.

What I remember the most was an article in the paper of the number of followers that had taken out loans on their home to send to Jones to build them homes when they arrived to join him.

He was a raciest by all accounts but hid it well.   It was numbered in the hundreds and hundreds of small Black Churches that went bankrupt, some big Black Cherities folded as well.  What a mess, the people that followed then signed over all assists to him, this was quite the scam.

Did he commit suicide, who knows, I think not.

When one or more of his followers realised that this was not a drill for White Nights and realised people were dropping like flys, dead around them, I believe they had access to a bundle of the church money and fled with it.

Could be he was set up by the advisers to take the fall for their actions.

So where did all that money go now that most of them are dead.?   






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Offline vesta111

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 09:44:11 AM »

good Lord, you are a ****ing loon.

Dear Dutch, I take nothing at face value as the Libs do.

I question much and find that if I just accept and believe I will down the line come to a rude awaking. The only thing I took out of the 1960's was the question authority.

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 09:47:33 AM »

good Lord, you are a ****ing loon.

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Offline BEG

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 10:07:12 AM »
Dear Dutch, I take nothing at face value as the Libs do.

I question much and find that if I just accept and believe I will down the line come to a rude awaking. The only thing I took out of the 1960's was the question authority.

They have audio of him talking as he is directing everyone to drink the poisoned koolaid. He saw that it wasn't as peaceful as he told everyone it would be. He was a coward and couldn't kill himself so he had someone shoot him in the head.  

Oh and he did leave everything to the U.S.S.R.

Offline dutch508

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 10:29:55 AM »
They have audio of him talking as he is directing everyone to drink the poisoned koolaid. He saw that it wasn't as peaceful as he told everyone it would be. He was a coward and couldn't kill himself so he had someone shoot him in the head.  

Oh and he did leave everything to the U.S.S.R.

A simple liberal wiki-check would have told her, but NOOOO!!!! there had to be a ****ing plot! Typical leftist loon.

thus, my comment.

I am starting to believe at vesta1111111 and spooked911 are in fact...dating.
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Offline dandi

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 10:51:08 AM »
A long time ago, so to refresh my memory---------http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

At this time of the happening I was in California changing diapers and trying to survive my offspring.

What I remember the most was an article in the paper of the number of followers that had taken out loans on their home to send to Jones to build them homes when they arrived to join him.

He was a raciest by all accounts but hid it well.   It was numbered in the hundreds and hundreds of small Black Churches that went bankrupt, some big Black Cherities folded as well.  What a mess, the people that followed then signed over all assists to him, this was quite the scam.

Did he commit suicide, who knows, I think not.

When one or more of his followers realised that this was not a drill for White Nights and realised people were dropping like flys, dead around them, I believe they had access to a bundle of the church money and fled with it.

Could be he was set up by the advisers to take the fall for their actions.

So where did all that money go now that most of them are dead.?   





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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2010, 11:45:55 AM »
Dear Dutch, I take nothing at face value as the Libs do.

I question much and find that if I just accept and believe I will down the line come to a rude awaking. The only thing I took out of the 1960's was the question authority.

Well "Loony Toon", how 'bout ya google the tape recordings and interviews that were recorded on the day of the mass suicide? Many of them by the survivors that ran into the woods because they wouldn't drink the kool aid under penalty of death!

You'er no better than a 9/11 conspirator!

The most famous of these interviews was a man who lost his wife and child, for Christ's sake! To this day he blames himself for believing in this monster! He holds himself responsible for their deaths! Doesn't take a brain surgeon to watch this guy's agony and realize he's givin' you a play by play of the last few minutes of this tragedy!

WTF is wrong with you? You are doing nothing but pissin' on the graves of his followers that actually believed he could help them to paradise, when you question those that survived it!

I suppose he split the take with the Congress Critter that went down there to try and help those that had figured out he was insane?

I expect this kind of claptrap from the DUmp, not here, where logical human beings reside!

You've posted some real doozies here before, but this one is just disgusting!

Get a frikin' grip!
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Offline delilahmused

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2010, 12:00:04 PM »
Well all you have to do is look at the denomination the People's Temple was part of to know he was progressive. Disciples of Christ, while their progressiveness varies from church to church (we went to one for years that was pretty conservative) at the national level are pro choice, involved in GLBT issues, and a member of the NCC. The top 3 most liberal are Unitarian, Unity, and Disciples. A bit of trivia: Ronald Reagan grew up in a Disciples of Christ church as his mother was a devout member. But then, so were Wm Fulbright & Carrie Nation. Disciples love their sinners and their saints and much of this is church lore worn with a badge of honor. The thing that kept me going back for so many years is that they have communion every week whereas most other protestants denominations do them once a month if at all.

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Offline vesta111

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2010, 09:31:47 AM »
Well "Loony Toon", how 'bout ya google the tape recordings and interviews that were recorded on the day of the mass suicide? Many of them by the survivors that ran into the woods because they wouldn't drink the kool aid under penalty of death!

You'er no better than a 9/11 conspirator!

The most famous of these interviews was a man who lost his wife and child, for Christ's sake! To this day he blames himself for believing in this monster! He holds himself responsible for their deaths! Doesn't take a brain surgeon to watch this guy's agony and realize he's givin' you a play by play of the last few minutes of this tragedy!

WTF is wrong with you? You are doing nothing but pissin' on the graves of his followers that actually believed he could help them to paradise, when you question those that survived it!

I suppose he split the take with the Congress Critter that went down there to try and help those that had figured out he was insane?

I expect this kind of claptrap from the DUmp, not here, where logical human beings reside!

You've posted some real doozies here before, but this one is just disgusting!

Get a frikin' grip!

Dear Allo, my, my, you are frisky today.

I believe I stated my compassion for the people that followed him and to the people that became bankrupt for trusting in him.

I was of the impression that the only survivors were the boys that refused to come back to the colony when ordered to by Jones--they had a game to compete in elsewhere.

Some of the flock here in the USA did in fact go visit the colony before signing over their earthly goods and came home scared to death of that man. Most had family living in the colony that refused to leave, brainwashed as they were.

 Jones did have in fact his own security force that was armed to the teeth.  His security thought nothing of killing a US congressman to keep him out of the colony.

Then why do you suppose that this congressman went there in the first place.?   Could it be that family's in the US were demanding someone to check into the well being of their family's .?

   Were the politicians that were friendly to Jones and supporting him in the past getting a bit antsy about all the rumors and worried about their carears and association with him.?

If after the murder of everyone, where did Jones security force going to do, some people in the colony had been shot to death for refusing to drink the poisoned brew.

Lots going on here, someone had to have bought and stored the poison for future use, who made the huge vats of the drink and as people are all physically different, how did Jones know just how much to serve to insure death.?

Were the weapons used to kill the congressman and his entourage ever found.?

No one but no one can pull off a scam like this without help, who were his 2-3 advisers, were they among the dead.?

I am looking at this with religion as a pull but not the only reason for this horror.   

This colony needed outside help, Doctors, Lawyers, town planing for assigning people tasks, garbage removal, bringing in food clothing and replacing items that could not be made by the colonists themselves.

People needed roads and airstrips to come and go, not to mention the Guyana government payoffs to the country that allowed them to build the colony.  I cannot believe the Guyana's did not know what was going on, as long as the payoffs came they turned a blind eye to a bunch of Crazy Americans.

I am looking at this as a crime created by those using religious faith to in snare the innocent.

A crazy old Broad, I may be a Loony Tune in fact, but, I cannot just except the official version of this as being nothing more then a Preacher going nuts and forcing his followers to kill their children and themselves .

One can not forget that these victims were converts one and all, they had no family tradition to follow.

Give me a break here, those in fear of their lives could not just run off into the jungle with their children and expect to survive.  There best hope of survival was to remain in the colony and pray someone would come and bring them home.

BTW I lived in the Canal Zone as a kid in Panama so I have memory's of the jungle there and I today or then would never try to set on foot in it.

Please understand Allo, the jungle is not a place like our Northern woods, on cannot just walk in there, one must chop their way through and 5 grown men with machetes may be able to clear a walking path of 100 yards but it will take them 2 days of labor, in the heat, the constant misquotes, snakes, wild boar, a million and one Poisson's critters, no one could come out of the jungle alive as a new comer.

An interesting thought here is the insurance company's that held life insurance on all those people.  A suicide may void an insurance policy, a murder may pay out 3 times the policy's worth...The company's received great benefit from all this being though of as suicide and not murder. :evillaugh: :evillaugh: :evillaugh:

I like you Allo you force me to think outside the box- Another high 5 to you.



   

Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2010, 02:47:21 PM »
Not "frisky", just know a loon when I see them!

Were the weapons found? Are you frikkin' serious?
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Offline cavegal

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2010, 02:52:09 PM »
 :koolaid:


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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2010, 03:03:51 PM »
REv. Jim also shot some of his own people and a Congressman that was just about to leave the country at the time they were drinking the kool aid
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2010, 03:40:28 PM »
REv. Jim also shot some of his own people and a Congressman that was just about to leave the country at the time they were drinking the kool aid

Be careful now! Vesta thinks he might of faked it and ran off with everybody's money!
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2010, 09:24:25 AM »
Be careful now! Vesta thinks he might of faked it and ran off with everybody's money!

No I think he used religion as one heck of a messed up scam to get money.

He made friends in rather high places that were more then willing to take his contributions for their war chest.

He allowed himself to GO OBAMA and to believe that he was himself justified in anything he did, he was their leader and the chosen one.

He removed his family and followers to a country that has all ways been corrupt, no one has mentioned that the congressman's shooting may in fact have been done by the army of a well bribed country and not members of the colony themselves.

He had to take his scam off American soil as to have tried the same thing here in the USA would have cost him 4 times the amount of money to keep prying eyes away and there would have been more problems with keeping his converts from becoming disillusioned and leaving.

We are not encouraged to look at this horror as a crime that involved people in the politics of the USA and the Host country.

What would we have done if it was found that Jones himself was being druged daily and he was himself being controlled by outside forces.?

What a tangled web we weave when once we promiss to decieve.








Offline dandi

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2010, 11:05:46 AM »

We are not encouraged to look at this horror as a crime that involved people in the politics of the USA and the Host country.

What would we have done if it was found that Jones himself was being druged daily and he was himself being controlled by outside forces.?

What a tangled web we weave when once we promiss to decieve.

Vesta, I have tried many things to make sense of most of your posts.  For this particular gem, I squirted a tube of model airplane glue into a plastic bag and put it over my head for about a half an hour.

Now I have a headache, am so dizzy I tripped over a coffee table and squished 3 pixies who were drinking beer on my couch (at least that's what I think I saw), and still can't make a damn bit of sense out of what I quoted.

Seriously, what the **** are you talking about?
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Offline Randy

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Re: Is Obama the New Jim Jones?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2010, 11:33:59 AM »
Vesta, I have tried many things to make sense of most of your posts.  For this particular gem, I squirted a tube of model airplane glue into a plastic bag and put it over my head for about a half an hour.

Now I have a headache, am so dizzy I tripped over a coffee table and squished 3 pixies who were drinking beer on my couch (at least that's what I think I saw), and still can't make a damn bit of sense out of what I quoted.

Seriously, what the **** are you talking about?


I seriously think she was hoping your answer might clue her in herself.