Author Topic: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar  (Read 4697 times)

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Offline cavegal

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Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« on: October 02, 2010, 08:29:37 PM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/02/ap/strange/main6921179.shtml

Quote
(AP)   A Staten Island couple is suing New York City after the shocking discovery that their dead son's brain was on display in a jar at a city morgue.

Jesse Shipley was 17 when he died in a car crash in 2005.

Andre and Korisha Shipley said they had no idea his brain was removed during an autopsy until some of the teen's classmates at Port Richmond High School visited a mo


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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 08:30:30 PM »
what the  . . . ?

Offline soleil

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 08:44:54 PM »
Were his organs donated to science?

That is bizarre. Maybe I need to specify that my usable organs are to be donated to people that need them. Hopefully, I will be too old for them to be of use, but even if I donated them for scientific purposes, that doesn't mean a museum display.  :thatsright:

Offline cavegal

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 08:49:00 PM »
What if the family is Jewish? I  agree with lawsuit on this one. The guy was lazy wanted to pick up more than 1 brain , at least 6 at a time.


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Offline terry

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 11:11:07 PM »
It's a very disturbing thing about autopsies.  They don't tell families.   My  7 yo son died suddenly and unexpectedly in 2005.  An autopsy was required because the cause of death was not clear. 

Although they verbally told us the cause of death (strangled small intestine, due to adhesions, due to nephrectomy done to cure kidney cancer) and gave us a death certificate within 24 hours, we did not get a full written report until 6 weeks after his death.

When we read the written report, we learned that his brain had been removed for examination by a neurologist at a later time.   His body was sent to the funeral home without the brain.  He was buried without the brain.  When I inquired about it with one of his doctors they said after the neurologists exam, the brain is 'disposed of'.   

They said it was standard procedure.  If it wasn't all said and done by the time we found out about it, I probably would have raised a ruckus.  As it was I was having difficulty just being a functioning person and was not up for a battle.

When my mom passed away just last week they requested permission to do an autopsy, for their own educational purposes.  There was no big mystery about her death so it wasn't required.   We said no.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 10:57:19 AM »
I have no words......without consent from the family (and full disclosure) this is the wrong and horrific.
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Offline littlelamb

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 02:28:09 PM »
That is so wrong on so many levels
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Offline mamacags

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 05:31:35 PM »
I don't really see the big deal.  It isn't like a deceased person is going to need it again.  As long as the body is respectfully creamated/buried I wouldn't be very concerned about organs.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 05:59:23 PM »
I don't really see the big deal.  It isn't like a deceased person is going to need it again.  As long as the body is respectfully creamated/buried I wouldn't be very concerned about organs.

Meh, me neither, but it doesn't say if it was against their religion.

Offline vesta111

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 06:32:18 PM »
I don't really see the big deal.  It isn't like a deceased person is going to need it again.  As long as the body is respectfully creamated/buried I wouldn't be very concerned about organs.

So I see that you Mama has not been reading the papers lately.

There has been questions about where implants of human bone into people come from.   I was told when I needed an implant into my leg that the bone was from a donated source, kind of weird to think of walking around with the bone of a dead person allowing me to.  

Now for the fun part, if you like horror films.

Seems that 6-8  found but perhaps many more, funeral parlors about the country were getting in on this bone transplant thing and removing the bones and replacing them with PCV pipe---a fact not a joke.

The bones they removed from the dead were sold to company's that supplied bones to hospitals for implant.  The company that bought the bones did no tests to see if the deceased was HIV or had any kind of active disease.

The Hospitals that bought them were assured that these bones were disease free and ready to be implanted into living humans that would benefit more from them then a metal implant.

Much money was made on this, none naturally to the family of the Donner that had no choice.   Then people that received a transplant be it a knuckle on a hand or a bone in the foot began to become ill, some rejected the the transplant or popped up with Aids.

Someone blew the whistle on this and as it began to be revealed it got quite grewsome.  

Now Mama how would you feel if a family member at age 3 died in an an accident.  Then after placing the child in the ground find out that half the child was missing and strangers were making big bucks selling their bones.?

This is akin to grave robbing, such goes on today.   Scientists still need bodys to expiriment on and some Creamatoriums will sell the bodys and hand the family a box of ashes from another person that is non sellable.

Fact of life is hard to face, sure the dead no longer have controll over their remains, BUT, there is family, friends  and just moral socidity that has the responcibility to see that this human is not treated after death the same as a slaugtered hog.

Mama there is this thing called dignity that we humans have that goes back 20,000 years. We burry our dead with love, some of us place pictures of family in the casket and perhaps in the case of a child a favorite toy.

No the deciesed does not knot know what is happening, nore does it care.  This is why we bury a Jane Doe found dead with reverence, someone loved her and she loved someone herself.

I will give you a pass on this one Mama, you must be young and have never faced the death of a loved one




Offline terry

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 08:58:32 PM »
So I see that you Mama has not been reading the papers lately.

There has been questions about where implants of human bone into people come from.   I was told when I needed an implant into my leg that the bone was from a donated source, kind of weird to think of walking around with the bone of a dead person allowing me to.  

Now for the fun part, if you like horror films.

Seems that 6-8  found but perhaps many more, funeral parlors about the country were getting in on this bone transplant thing and removing the bones and replacing them with PCV pipe---a fact not a joke.

The bones they removed from the dead were sold to company's that supplied bones to hospitals for implant.  The company that bought the bones did no tests to see if the deceased was HIV or had any kind of active disease.

The Hospitals that bought them were assured that these bones were disease free and ready to be implanted into living humans that would benefit more from them then a metal implant.

Much money was made on this, none naturally to the family of the Donner that had no choice.   Then people that received a transplant be it a knuckle on a hand or a bone in the foot began to become ill, some rejected the the transplant or popped up with Aids.

Someone blew the whistle on this and as it began to be revealed it got quite grewsome.  

Now Mama how would you feel if a family member at age 3 died in an an accident.  Then after placing the child in the ground find out that half the child was missing and strangers were making big bucks selling their bones.?

This is akin to grave robbing, such goes on today.   Scientists still need bodys to expiriment on and some Creamatoriums will sell the bodys and hand the family a box of ashes from another person that is non sellable.

Fact of life is hard to face, sure the dead no longer have controll over their remains, BUT, there is family, friends  and just moral socidity that has the responcibility to see that this human is not treated after death the same as a slaugtered hog.

Mama there is this thing called dignity that we humans have that goes back 20,000 years. We burry our dead with love, some of us place pictures of family in the casket and perhaps in the case of a child a favorite toy.

No the deciesed does not knot know what is happening, nore does it care.  This is why we bury a Jane Doe found dead with reverence, someone loved her and she loved someone herself.

I will give you a pass on this one Mama, you must be young and have never faced the death of a loved one


That seems a little over the top, and a bit of an assumption.

I've dealt with grief, and while I found the process of not all the organs staying with the body disturbing (I'll admit it haunted me a bit), but I don't think that someone who doesn't think it's a big deal is disrespectful or lacking an understanding of dignity.

My overriding feeling immediately after the death of my son and more recently the death of my mom, is that they were not there.   I was in the presence of the body but the person clearly was not there.

In the five years since my son's death I think I've been to the grave, maybe 3 times.  He's not there.  My mom was cremated and her ashes will be interred at Arlington.  I don't know where her ashes are at this moment.  They aren't her and she's not with them.


Offline BEG

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 10:10:12 PM »
My brother was an organ donor. His widow didn't want to have any of his organs donated. They asked my mom if they could take his eyes and use his lenses which I found weird because he was almost blind his eyes were so bad but I guess that doesn't matter. They used some other parts that I can't remember right now, it may have been bone and something else.

My mom told them they could take whatever they needed. We got three pins that say he donated so i know his donations went to three people  It surprised me that they wanted to use anything since he died of a methadone overdose. They found he had a Pheochromocytoma cyst on his adrenal gland and pretty serious heart disease when they did the autopsy.

I was really surprised they went over my brothers "widow" and asked my mom. Maybe they don't even have to ask if you are already a donor on your DL?  My mom got a copy of his death certificate too, is that normal for a coroner to send it to the mother when their is a spouse?  We are glad they did as she lead us to believe he died from the Pheochromocytoma cyst.  She knew what he died from all along.

It was strange seeing my brother without eyes. They stuff them with cotton or whatever it is but knowing they took them made it all too noticeable. I know they took other parts out that he wasn't buried with.  It kind of bothered me at first but that was when I was an emotional wreck. It would make me mad if they took an organ without asking and displaying it for the world to see.

The husband of a good friend of the family died several years ago. He donated his body to science. They picked his body up from the hospital and did whatever they do with them then cremated the rest of his remains. They called his wife about 6 months or so later (it may have been longer) and told her she could pick him up. He had serious lung disease. Before he died he was on constant oxygen. He knew he was dying but joked about leaving his body to science all the time. His memorial was the most enjoyable one I have ever been to. People getting up talking about what a great guy he was and funny jokes that he told or pranks he had played. It was truly a celebration of life rather than a mourning of a life gone.  I wonder if not having the actual body at the service allows people to be more light hearted or feel more free to smile and laugh in remembering the person.  
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 10:14:02 PM by BEG »

Offline mamacags

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2010, 05:26:41 AM »
Vesta, I will give you a pass this time for ranting on and on and on and on about something (still not sure what) that you know nothing about.   

A.  If I did have a child that died I would donate everything I could so that other children could live. 

B.   You watch wayyyyyyyy too much CSI.  I know weird stuff happens once in a blue moon but 99.999% of the time funeral homes do the jobs they are supposed to do without resorting to illegal bone and organ removals.

C.   This was a single brain.  Explain to me how the deceased needed the brain after death.  I am sure with your ramblings you can think of a single reason, but most rational people can not.

D.  Put down the bottle while you type please.  If I am going to have to read a rant directed toward me, it would be nice to not have to run it through a translator from Dumbass to English. Thanks.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2010, 09:54:40 AM »
...The guy was lazy wanted to pick up more than 1 brain , at least 6 at a time.

According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline terry

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2010, 11:28:20 AM »
My brother was an organ donor. His widow didn't want to have any of his organs donated. They asked my mom if they could take his eyes and use his lenses which I found weird because he was almost blind his eyes were so bad but I guess that doesn't matter. They used some other parts that I can't remember right now, it may have been bone and something else.

My mom told them they could take whatever they needed. We got three pins that say he donated so i know his donations went to three people  

The whole organ donor thing .. ugh.  With Andy, they didn't even ask.  I suspect for two reasons.  He was a cancer survivor and I suppose there's a possibility that cancer cells are present in any thing they take from him.  Two, they didn't know cause of death right away.

With my mom, we got a call as we were driving home from the hospital saying that DL specified her as a donor.  This was really surprising because every family member including my dad remembered that in any conversation about organ donation with my mom, she always said she would not do it because she was afraid the docs might not make every effort if they were anxious to get your organs.  Not how I feel about it, but it was her thing.  We teased her about it.

So when we got the call, we said, well that's a surprise but maybe she changed her mind.  So we consented.  Then they said they had to ask a few questions.  It went on and on and on.  Stupid questions.
 Was she on medication?  She was 80!!
Did she have hepatitis? infections? circulation problems? cancer?  heart problems?  kidney problems?  liver problems? on and on and on.  She was 80, she had horrible circulation, all her organs were compromised by that.  THAT'S WHY SHE DIED. Then they started on lifestyle..

had she been in prison?
did she have tattoos or piercings?
did she travel to Haiti?  did she travel to this place or that place?

Finally at "was she sexually active in the last six months?"  My sister said stop.  First I don't know the answers to all these questions and even if I did you can't rely on what I say.  Check her medical history with the hospital and test the tissue. We're done!    Then they called again and got my other sister who is an attorney.  She said forget it.  You cannot have the organs, you will quit calling us.  If they would have just accepted the 'yes' they would have had what they wanted.  Instead they had to be a royal PITA at the worst possible time.

My niece said we should have answered yes to everything.  Made up a good story.  Yea she was in prison, but she escaped and ran off to Haiti.  She just got back from Haiti, with her brand new tramp stamp and belly button piercing.  Her new boyfriend is really cute, but we're wonder what happened to the old one...   We think she may have kicked her heroin addiction while she was away.  :evillaugh:


Offline BEG

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2010, 01:37:50 PM »
The whole organ donor thing .. ugh.  With Andy, they didn't even ask.  I suspect for two reasons.  He was a cancer survivor and I suppose there's a possibility that cancer cells are present in any thing they take from him.  Two, they didn't know cause of death right away.

With my mom, we got a call as we were driving home from the hospital saying that DL specified her as a donor.  This was really surprising because every family member including my dad remembered that in any conversation about organ donation with my mom, she always said she would not do it because she was afraid the docs might not make every effort if they were anxious to get your organs.  Not how I feel about it, but it was her thing.  We teased her about it.

So when we got the call, we said, well that's a surprise but maybe she changed her mind.  So we consented.  Then they said they had to ask a few questions.  It went on and on and on.  Stupid questions.
 Was she on medication?  She was 80!!
Did she have hepatitis? infections? circulation problems? cancer?  heart problems?  kidney problems?  liver problems? on and on and on.  She was 80, she had horrible circulation, all her organs were compromised by that.  THAT'S WHY SHE DIED. Then they started on lifestyle..

had she been in prison?
did she have tattoos or piercings?
did she travel to Haiti?  did she travel to this place or that place?

Finally at "was she sexually active in the last six months?"  My sister said stop.  First I don't know the answers to all these questions and even if I did you can't rely on what I say.  Check her medical history with the hospital and test the tissue. We're done!    Then they called again and got my other sister who is an attorney.  She said forget it.  You cannot have the organs, you will quit calling us.  If they would have just accepted the 'yes' they would have had what they wanted.  Instead they had to be a royal PITA at the worst possible time.

Quote
My niece said we should have answered yes to everything.  Made up a good story.  Yea she was in prison, but she escaped and ran off to Haiti.  She just got back from Haiti, with her brand new tramp stamp and belly button piercing.  Her new boyfriend is really cute, but we're wonder what happened to the old one...   We think she may have kicked her heroin addiction while she was away.  :evillaugh:



LOL that really made me laugh.


Offline mamacags

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2010, 01:40:39 PM »
Me too! :hi5:  I have a couple of great aunts that I could see doing that though.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 02:36:38 PM »
Vesta, I will give you a pass this time for ranting on and on and on and on about something (still not sure what) that you know nothing about.   

A.  If I did have a child that died I would donate everything I could so that other children could live. 

B.   You watch wayyyyyyyy too much CSI.  I know weird stuff happens once in a blue moon but 99.999% of the time funeral homes do the jobs they are supposed to do without resorting to illegal bone and organ removals.

C.   This was a single brain.  Explain to me how the deceased needed the brain after death.  I am sure with your ramblings you can think of a single reason, but most rational people can not.

D.  Put down the bottle while you type please.  If I am going to have to read a rant directed toward me, it would be nice to not have to run it through a translator from Dumbass to English. Thanks.

Mama this has nothing to do  with donating organs this has to do with those that steal body parts from the dead to make make a profit from them or wish to experiment on them without permission or knowledge of the family and the diseased never gave a thought that their body parts would end up in a jar for strangers to ogle.

We are in fact talking about grave robbing here.

So if your father died and you wanted him buried wearing his wedding ring, but the funeral director stole it, that is ok.?-------So no problem if they steal body parts to make money, right.

This is fact and and a couple of years ago Boston General blew the whistle on a Hugh company that supplied the hospital with bones and orgins.

This became a 3 day wonder for the papers and was quietely allowed to die as the public was begining to panic.

I find it disturbing that you Mama have so little reverence for the dead and their familys.

I am not speaking of doners or familys that donate themselves, I am speaking of those that die and their body parts are used to make money money for strangers.

My body is mine and if I wish to donate part of it to help others, that is one thing.

But when my family disposes of my body, pays a huge amount of money for that service, the last thing they need is to find my brain in a jar in a place that charges admission. 

There is really no difference between removing jewerly from the dead to sell then taking body parts for profit.

Come on Mama, have you no SHAME.

Offline terry

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2010, 06:46:05 PM »
Mama this has nothing to do  with donating organs this has to do with those that steal body parts from the dead to make make a profit from them or wish to experiment on them without permission or knowledge of the family and the diseased never gave a thought that their body parts would end up in a jar for strangers to ogle.

We are in fact talking about grave robbing here.

That's not what really happened.   This what happened.

1.  A teenager died in an automobile accident.
2.  As standard operating procedure (SOP) an autopsy was performed.
3.  As SOP the internal organs were removed.
4.  As SOP the brain was stored for later examination by a neurologist.
5.  HS students tour the coroner's office, no evidence that anyone paid admission, or that things were open to the general
 public.
6.  HS students happen on, happen to find their classmate's brain, labeled with his name in a jar, where it was waiting for the neurologist as is SOP.

There is no evidence that anyone stole anything, there is no evidence that anyone made a profit off anyone's organ.  Odds are if the HS students had not discovered the brain, it would have been examined by the neuro dude and disposed of, all according to SOP.   As it is, it was discovered so, it was examined and given back to the family.


Offline vesta111

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 05:56:26 AM »
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases08/pr20090106b.html

This is just one of dozens of finds on the loss of a license to run a funeral home for discusting acts.  Google funeral directors loose license and be prepared to throw up.

Offline terry

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 06:46:44 AM »
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases08/pr20090106b.html

This is just one of dozens of finds on the loss of a license to run a funeral home for discusting acts.  Google funeral directors loose license and be prepared to throw up.

I know there are funeral homes that have done and do terrible things, but that's not what we were talking about here.  Mama wasn't defending the vile act of a funeral home.  She was just saying that she didn't think what the coroner's office did in this case with this teen's brain was a terrible thing.

Offline BEG

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 04:39:36 PM »
Not that it matters, I just noticed that I said they wanted my brothers lenses, it was his corneas.

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 05:16:01 PM »
Not that it matters, I just noticed that I said they wanted my brothers lenses, it was his corneas.

I think that was what they wanted from my mom as well.  I'm guessing corneas are something that can be used even from very sick or very elderly people.  They said 90 is the cutoff age for donation.  My mom had cataract surgery and that didn't even exclude her as a donor.

Offline soleil

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 06:29:55 PM »
Mama this has nothing to do  with donating organs this has to do with those that steal body parts from the dead to make make a profit from them or wish to experiment on them without permission or knowledge of the family and the diseased never gave a thought that their body parts would end up in a jar for strangers to ogle.

We are in fact talking about grave robbing here.

So if your father died and you wanted him buried wearing his wedding ring, but the funeral director stole it, that is ok.?-------So no problem if they steal body parts to make money, right.

This is fact and and a couple of years ago Boston General blew the whistle on a Hugh company that supplied the hospital with bones and orgins.

This became a 3 day wonder for the papers and was quietely allowed to die as the public was begining to panic.

I find it disturbing that you Mama have so little reverence for the dead and their familys.

I am not speaking of doners or familys that donate themselves, I am speaking of those that die and their body parts are used to make money money for strangers.

My body is mine and if I wish to donate part of it to help others, that is one thing.

But when my family disposes of my body, pays a huge amount of money for that service, the last thing they need is to find my brain in a jar in a place that charges admission.  

There is really no difference between removing jewerly from the dead to sell then taking body parts for profit.

Come on Mama, have you no SHAME.


This is way over-the-top and quite rude. This wasn't even what the OP was about. It was about a brain on display at a museum, not people grave-robbing. That is what she didn't see a big deal about. No one can re-use a brain, other than to study.  I think even someone with No morals would think grave-robbing to be disgusting.

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Re: Dead Teen's Classmates Discover His Brain in Jar
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2010, 08:35:04 PM »
I guess what I find interesting about the OP is that the deceased student's name was clearly visible on the container with the brain in it. Call me ignorant, but I would hope they use some sort of coding system instead of real names. Yes, it's a morgue and when you're dead, you're dead but still.....
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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle