Author Topic: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela  (Read 6338 times)

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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2010, 10:17:41 AM »
Well, it isn't like this isn't a topic of some controversy. People still argue about this; and I don't think, from what I've been reading, that the Germans were so far as "several years away"; my overall impression from what I've been able to find is that, had they been unmolested by bombing and not had to prioritize so much for the immediate war effort, that they might have been less than a year away. But even less than a year away is still far beyond nearly having it simultaneously with the US.

Good reading:


http://www.unmuseum.org/nbomb.htm


Some very informed opiners:


http://www.warhistoryfans.com/how-close-ware-the-germans-to-getting-a-nuclear-bomb-181574.html






I post this simply to point out that Vesta's opinion isn't so outre. Many informed people still argue, and in detail, about this.

I think with the Bomb...something similiar happened as that which ocurred with the people developing Germany's Jet and Rocket programs.  We got some of the scientists and they got some as well...or at least the designs for stuff because the Germans were terrified of what the Russians would do to them if captured.

We just happened to end up with more of them and that left the Russians having to reverse engineer a lot of things and turn to espionage to get what they didn't have.  But there had been people in this country sympathetic to the People's Revolution since before the start of the war.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2010, 11:51:42 AM »
There were numerous reasons for the failure to accomplish anything in the German program.

First, the expulsion of all the Jewish scientists did leave a hole in their academic community, though they still had at least parity if not a mild lead in theoretical physics compared to us or the UK even after that.

Second, the guys who figured it could be made did not do a Hell of a job selling it to Hitler, so it was really treated more as a scientific prestige program rather than a war-winning weapon, and so was somewhat under-resourced (Becoming more so as the war progressed).  Given that the program was never as tightly compartmentalized as the Manhattan Project (Only a tiny handfull of whose leaders knew the ultimate objective) there may be some credibility to speculation that some of the smartest players on their side figured out where it was going and it 'Spurred them on lesser efforts.'

Third, they were off on a totally unproductive rabbit trail with the heavy water reactors.  Stupid idea, really; heavy water proved very valuable for unlocking the technology to make hydrogen bombs later on, but trying to use it alone to moderate a simple fission reactor is like trying to spin five plates on sticks while eating off of them.  There is one way it can work right and a thousand ways for it to fail, nearly all of them more or less catastrophic.

The only way they could have been a year away would be to take what they had in 1945, and start from that with an entire new approach and priority level.  Given that, yes, possibly a year.  The way they were going, at least five.     
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Offline wavespank

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2010, 01:55:11 PM »
Obama wants to be the pre-election tough guy. That's all this is about.

Offline vesta111

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2010, 06:13:29 PM »
There were numerous reasons for the failure to accomplish anything in the German program.

First, the expulsion of all the Jewish scientists did leave a hole in their academic community, though they still had at least parity if not a mild lead in theoretical physics compared to us or the UK even after that.

Second, the guys who figured it could be made did not do a Hell of a job selling it to Hitler, so it was really treated more as a scientific prestige program rather than a war-winning weapon, and so was somewhat under-resourced (Becoming more so as the war progressed).  Given that the program was never as tightly compartmentalized as the Manhattan Project (Only a tiny handfull of whose leaders knew the ultimate objective) there may be some credibility to speculation that some of the smartest players on their side figured out where it was going and it 'Spurred them on lesser efforts.'

Third, they were off on a totally unproductive rabbit trail with the heavy water reactors.  Stupid idea, really; heavy water proved very valuable for unlocking the technology to make hydrogen bombs later on, but trying to use it alone to moderate a simple fission reactor is like trying to spin five plates on sticks while eating off of them.  There is one way it can work right and a thousand ways for it to fail, nearly all of them more or less catastrophic.

The only way they could have been a year away would be to take what they had in 1945, and start from that with an entire new approach and priority level.  Given that, yes, possibly a year.  The way they were going, at least five.     

I agree with Mr. D. Ass about the insanity of destroying or running off the very people that could have taken Germany to great heights in Science, not to mention the Arts, Music, and Medicine.

True they had to get out of a severe depression and chose to use tactics of the barbarians that marched into Mecca with the blood of the Muslims up to the flanks of their horses.

Like the invaders that burned the Library at Alexandra, the problem with destroying knowledge was to destroy themselves and ultimately destroy themselves.

We have some what the same problem here today. 






Offline Chris_

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2010, 11:42:13 PM »
Mr. D. Ass
Something new to put on your business card. :lmao:

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2010, 07:56:09 AM »
Since she apparently didn't understand the rest of the point she was agreeing with, it's tough to take umbrage at the mangling of the moniker.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2010, 10:58:41 AM »
Since she apparently didn't understand the rest of the point she was agreeing with, it's tough to take umbrage at the mangling of the moniker.

 :heart:  sorry about that.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Two (Americans) Held in Alleged Nuke Bomb Making for Venezuela
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2010, 06:12:47 PM »
'salright; my screen name is Army slang that goes 'way back, maybe as far as WW2, I'm not sure.  The normal way to shorten the term is "DAT."
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.