Koran

[Godot showed up]

I hate them too. With a passion. But is it worth starting another major conflict?

But this wouldn't be starting anything. It's a long overdue response in kind, and a fairly mild one at that.

[Revolution]

I personally would be armed if I was attending. However, the only major thing to worry about is to make sure the fire was out before you left...

[dutch508]

I hate them too. With a passion. But is it worth starting another major conflict?

STARTING a major conflict? Hey, Dumbass. They already started it. Maybe we should join in.

[Chris_]

Rackspace pulls church’s website

A San Antonio company found itself sucked into the controversy over the Dove World Outreach Center's planned burning of religious texts.

Rackspace Hosting Inc. hosted the Florida church's website, but stopped providing services late Wednesday after determining the Dove World Outreach Center violated a provision in its contract regarding hate speech, a Rackspace spokesman said.

My San Antonio News

[Thor]

Rackspace pulls church’s website

A San Antonio company found itself sucked into the controversy over the Dove World Outreach Center's planned burning of religious texts.

Rackspace Hosting Inc. hosted the Florida church's website, but stopped providing services late Wednesday after determining the Dove World Outreach Center violated a provision in its contract regarding hate speech, a Rackspace spokesman said.

My San Antonio News

IMO, they are merely kowtowing to the false outrage & doing what is politically expedient.

[debk]

I don't think the Koran should be burnt by a bunch of Christians.

All that does is sink those Christians to the same level as those who burn the American Flag or the Bible. I would like to think the majority of us are better than that.

On the chance that it would increase the harm to our military folks scattered around the world, and particularly those in the MidEast....is it really worth it? I think not.

The terroristic Muslims are well aware of our opinion of them, burning their holy book does nothing except to make Americans look worse to other countries outside of the MidEast. We portray ourselves as better than many countries....if we're going to do the talk, we need to also do the walk.

[Godot showed up]

I don't think the Koran should be burnt by a bunch of Christians.

All that does is sink those Christians to the same level as those who burn the American Flag or the Bible. I would like to think the majority of us are better than that.

Debk, with respect, I'd like to suggest that this same reasoning could be used to say, "he's shooting at me. I shouldn't shoot back, because I'd be 'sinking to his level.'"

We ARE "better than that." Even if we respond in kind--and you may know I'm not a Christian--we'll still be better, because we are not the instigators. That fact--that we are not the aggressors--makes all the difference in the world. As for their knowing how we feel about them, yes, maybe they do, but the point of this is to mortally insult them as much as possible, as they have so often done to us and do daily. The insult is an end in itself.

[debk]

Debk, with respect, I'd like to suggest that this same reasoning could be used to say, "he's shooting at me. I shouldn't shoot back, because I'd be 'sinking to his level.'"

We ARE "better than that." Even if we respond in kind--and you may know I'm not a Christian--we'll still be better, because we are not the instigators. That fact--that we are not the aggressors--makes all the difference in the world. As for their knowing how we feel about them, yes, maybe they do, but the point of this is to mortally insult them as much as possible, as they have so often done to us and do daily. The insult is an end in itself.

Nope...if I had a gun ( I don't own one) and somebody shot at me, I'd shoot back....and hope I killed the son of a bitch.

I just think to burn a book revered by many is....(We all know that not every single Muslim is not an evil person. Probably not even a majority are. Different yes, evil and crazy? No).....is a childish act. Just as is burning a country's flag, a leader in effigy, a Bible or Constitution, regardless of who does it. When a bunch of so-called adults do stuff like this, to me it's kind of a cowardly act, which is ultimately a good thing. Human beings are not physically hurt when stuff like this is done....all it does is make the do-er and his co-horts, feel important and powerful in their own mind, and offend and create moral outrage in the individuals who have respect for what was burned.

A Koran is just a book to me, full of words....it is not "Holy" to me. The Bible, however, is "Holy" to me, yet it is not to you. To you, it's just a book of words, which you may or may not respect. That is your choice. I, personally, am not going to be offended either way....but that's just me. Though I am not a Jew, I respect the Torah, as it is a "Holy" book to many of my friends, and to many people that I respect.

Your argument is that it makes a "statement", that it's a mortal insult. It may be a moral insult, but not a mortal one.

Gathering up all of the evil leaders that could be found....put them in a building and blow it up....that would be a mortal insult ...and one I would have no trouble standing behind.

[cavegal]

I watched some of msnbc last night Keif and madow, I am always amazed how they think. The poor mooselimbs. why are they cowtowing to them(mooselimbs)? they will be the first in line to be stoned killed beheaded, it just ALWAYS BOGGLES MY ITTY BITTY BRAIN! It hurts now! 

[ColonialMarine0431]

I watched some of msnbc last night Keif and madow, I am always amazed how they think. The poor mooselimbs. why are they cowtowing to them(mooselimbs)? they will be the first in line to be stoned killed beheaded, it just ALWAYS BOGGLES MY ITTY BITTY BRAIN! It hurts now! 

Uselful Idiots.

[cavegal]

Uselful Idiots.

great jpgs! ColonialMarine! Useful idiots that will run for cover when they are being rounded up and want help from us!

[ColonialMarine0431]

great jpgs! ColonialMarine! Useful idiots that will run for cover when they are being rounded up and want help from us!

I called someone on Facebook a useful idiot after he could'nt refute the facts and links to back them up that the democRATs share the majority blame in the housing meltdown. He resorted to calling me a racist (what else is new) when I said Obama is an idiot. I retorted, "No I'm not. I think he's an idiot on his white half too."  (I called him a Useful Idiot after he called me a racist.

He "un-friended" me. 

I was sooo crushed. /sarcasm

[true_blood]

I called someone on Facebook a useful idiot after he could'nt refute the facts and links to back them up that the democRATs share the majority blame in the housing meltdown. He resorted to calling me a racist (what else is new) when I said Obama is an idiot. I retorted, "No I'm not. I think he's an idiot on his white half too."  (I called him a Useful Idiot after he called me a racist.

He "un-friended" me. 

I was sooo crushed. /sarcasm

You're better off. Don't need "friends" like that anyways.

[Godot showed up]

A Koran is just a book to me, full of words....it is not "Holy" to me. The Bible, however, is "Holy" to me, yet it is not to you. To you, it's just a book of words, which you may or may not respect. That is your choice. I, personally, am not going to be offended either way....but that's just me. Though I am not a Jew, I respect the Torah, as it is a "Holy" book to many of my friends, and to many people that I respect.

Not going to respond to the other stuff because I want to let it go, Debk; when I agree with (and like) someone as much as I do you, I just want to let minor disagreements lie after a bit. We've said our peaces.

I just wanted to clarify (to avoid any possible confusion), though, that I respect both Biblical Testaments very much, and also Christianity generally, as well as Judaism (wherein we have the oddity that, whether you believe or not, you're a Jew as long as your folks were, as mine were [or even if just your mother is Jewish]). On balance, Christianity has wrought far more good in the world than bad throughout all its history--which unequivocally CANNOT be said of vile Islam. And for my part, I AM offended by Bible burning, both because I am part of the civilization of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, and on behalf of, and as solidarity with, Christian friends. I just meant I'm not actually a believer, which I thought you knew.

[debk]

Not going to respond to the other stuff because I want to let it go, Debk; when I agree with (and like) someone as much as I do you, I just want to let minor disagreements lie after a bit. We've said our peaces.

I just wanted to clarify (to avoid any possible confusion), though, that I respect both Biblical Testaments very much, and also Christianity generally, as well as Judaism (wherein we have the oddity that, whether you believe or not, you're a Jew as long as your folks were, as mine were [or even if just your mother is Jewish]). On balance, Christianity has wrought far more good in the world than bad throughout all its history--which unequivocally CANNOT be said of vile Islam. And for my part, I AM offended by Bible burning, both because I am part of the civilization of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, and on behalf of, and as solidarity with, Christian friends. I just meant I'm not actually a believer, which I thought you knew.

I think we may have mis-understood each other.

First though, as far as I am concerned all is good between you and I. We may have differing opinions, but I don't consider our comments as a disagreement. I hope that you don't, and I certainly did not mean to offend you. If I did, I am so sorry. I have too much respect for you to deliberately offend you. 

I am aware, that Judaism is "passed" through the mother. My best friend is Jewish, my son's Godfather is Jewish, and I had dear friends growing up that were Jewish. If I was not a Catholic, I would probably opt for Judiasm. I did not know if you were a "believer"(?) in God, organized religion, or not...as I guess, if you have mentioned not being, it hasn't registered beyond a specific discussion. Choice of faith/religion or lack of, is way down the list, in how I view another person and their character.

I, too, am very offended when the Bible, or the Torah, is burned, our flag, our president in effigy. I think it is wrong - morally wrong. But my outrage, my anger, is not going to stop someone from doing it.... particularly as it is legal in this country.

When I said that I was not offended by your choice...I meant that I respect your right to have your own beliefs, regardless of what they are. I cannot, nor should I even try, to force... or even expect, you or anyone else to believe as I do. I think faith, choice of religion, is an intensely personal decision. I was brought up to respect another's faith/religion, and to never be inquisitive or judgemental of their choice.

I would like others to respect my faith and it's symbols, but I cannot force another to do that. Nor will I be forced to respect another's....in particular, Islam.

I have always felt that respect should be given with caution, until it is earned....and taken away, or not given, if not warranted. It cannot be gained by force, which is what the Islamic terrorists are trying to do to the non-Muslim world, by trying to terrorize us into believing as they do. That is turn, is why people will never respect Islam...it is based too much on violence. It will never work and sadly, a lot of people will continue to die because of it, just as they have for centuries.

Still friends? 

[RightCoast]

Imagine walking into your bosses office (or an employee coming into your office if your the boss) and saying: "If you don't give me a raise I'll quit!"

99 times out of a hundred you'll be told polity to leave the office without a raise, and if you quit so be it.

The reason you don't get the raise is because your boss can't afford to be held hostage, it's suicide if you will.

Now repeat after me: We can't burn a book because the Muslims will riot and it puts people in danger.  Same premise applies here, we as a nation and a society have been held hostage by words and P.C. bull$hit.  We are better then them, we can prove it, and the very fact that we are better means we must stop them before its too late to.

[Doc]

It is amusing how this national debate has drifted so far from the reality of religious life, and into the arena of politics, and propaganda.

As some of you here know, my wife and I lived in an Islamic country some years ago......a very strict one, governed under the Wahhabi version of Sharia Law.

Since we lived in a "compound", and it was no secret that we were not Muslim, every week (usually on Saturday) in each of our family mailboxes, would be placed a small, paperbound copy of the Quran translated into either English, or German (we could never figure out why German), each reverently wrapped in a small purple cloth.  The general speculation was that they were placed there by the "religious police", as a reminder of where (and who) we were.

Needless to say, after a while, we had accumulated quite a collection of Qurans, and a box was placed nearby to collect them until we could decide on the appropriate manner to dispose of, or return them.

There was a coffee shop on the street level of our office building, where locals, as well as our employees would gather frequently for breaks, and lunch, which was occasionally frequented by the Imam from the Mosque across the street.

One day, several of us were having a cup, when the Imam entered, so we invited him to our table, and after the appropriate Arab formalities, we discussed several topics of mutual interest, and one of my coworkers brought up the subject of the rather large collection of copies of the Quran that we had accumulated, and asked if he would like to have them to be used amongst his congregation.

He replied that as they were "gifts" to us it would be inappropriate for us to give them to him......in light of that fact, we asked what would be the proper manner in which to dispose of them, he replied with a sly grin......

"You have an incinerator......burn them.......they are "Holy" only to those who chose to make them so, otherwise they are just a book, and even in this counrty you are free to do what you want with a book"

We found his words more than wise, and perhaps this present debate could be governed by such wisdom.......

doc

[Splashdown]

Now repeat after me: We can't burn a book because the Muslims will riot and it puts people in danger.  Same premise applies here, we as a nation and a society have been held hostage by words and P.C. bull$hit.  We are better then them, we can prove it, and the very fact that we are better means we must stop them before its too late to.

This is not the reason I myself am against burning the Koran.

There are wackjobs over there who will riot at the slightest provocation; it's not like one act will result in them hating the West any more than they do now.

I have a friend who is Pakistani. He came to this country long before I was born. He is the father of three beautiful daughters. I know he follows at least some of the rules of Islam. He doesn't eat pork. He follows the fasting of Rammadan. He doesn't wear a beard. His children do not wear Islamic garb.

I'm  a Roman Catholic with Irish and Italian roots.  I've never asked him whether his church group has protested the extremism of some of the purveyors of his faith. How can I be sure that those who use terrorism and cloak it in Islam are different than the IRA who cloaked terrorism in Catholicism, the Japanese kamaazi who bastardized the Bushido code into something horrific, or the members of the Westboro Baptist Church who call themselves "Christian"?

Maybe I'm naive. I know Islam hasn't gone through a Reformation like the other major religions have.

[Freeper]

I say don't burn it because it won't accomplish anything other than giving libs another thing to whine about.

However I say he has the right to do it since the lefties can burn the American Flag.

As for this event inciting more violence it will do just that even though it has been called off last I heard. The goons over there will use this as just another excuse to kill people over. Just the fact that Jones has the intent will be enough.

[Godot showed up]

I think we may have mis-understood each other.

First though, as far as I am concerned all is good between you and I. We may have differing opinions, but I don't consider our comments as a disagreement. I hope that you don't, and I certainly did not mean to offend you. If I did, I am so sorry. I have too much respect for you to deliberately offend you. 

I am aware, that Judaism is "passed" through the mother. My best friend is Jewish, my son's Godfather is Jewish, and I had dear friends growing up that were Jewish. If I was not a Catholic, I would probably opt for Judiasm. I did not know if you were a "believer"(?) in God, organized religion, or not...as I guess, if you have mentioned not being, it hasn't registered beyond a specific discussion. Choice of faith/religion or lack of, is way down the list, in how I view another person and their character.

I, too, am very offended when the Bible, or the Torah, is burned, our flag, our president in effigy. I think it is wrong - morally wrong. But my outrage, my anger, is not going to stop someone from doing it.... particularly as it is legal in this country.

When I said that I was not offended by your choice...I meant that I respect your right to have your own beliefs, regardless of what they are. I cannot, nor should I even try, to force... or even expect, you or anyone else to believe as I do. I think faith, choice of religion, is an intensely personal decision. I was brought up to respect another's faith/religion, and to never be inquisitive or judgemental of their choice.

I would like others to respect my faith and it's symbols, but I cannot force another to do that. Nor will I be forced to respect another's....in particular, Islam.

I have always felt that respect should be given with caution, until it is earned....and taken away, or not given, if not warranted. It cannot be gained by force, which is what the Islamic terrorists are trying to do to the non-Muslim world, by trying to terrorize us into believing as they do. That is turn, is why people will never respect Islam...it is based too much on violence. It will never work and sadly, a lot of people will continue to die because of it, just as they have for centuries.

Still friends? 

Oh my gosh! Of course we're still friends! No you didn't offend me, not one little bit, not an iota, moiety, or really teeny thingy, and yes of course everything is good between us! I was just 'splainin what I was talking about, and evidently not doing a very good job of it. I wanted to explain the part about belief--since I have none, and I thought you'd misunderstood me--but didn't want to offend you by simply ignoring the meat of your comment completely; thus my little explanation of why I wasn't commenting further.

Is this an Alphonse and Gaston routine, or what?

[vesta111]

Not sure I understand this anymore.



I have reread the intire forum again and one thing keeps giving me a hard time.

This faith caused a dozen or so believers to burn to death in one way or another thousands of our citizens--Right ?

Now one person in this country says he will burn a freeking book, their Holy book of one out of millions  in print world wide.

Tomorrow I will buy or better yet steal a Koran, and cook BBQ ribs over it.   Then I shall dance with glee as the Muslims did after killing my people by fire, smoke and explosion.

I just do not know what this generation of Americans has turned into.
Bunch of girley-boys.  Yes we will fight back when we are personally assaulted ,but , when it comes to strangers--- we just feel sorry for their loss and hope the cops find the bad guys.

Give me a chance to set their little asses on fire.

Cargo planes with millions of leaflets that are to dropped on their nasty heads----          --------- Attention------

                           For each American service male or female killed or injured by your people,  100 books of the Koran will be burnt.   Within 24 hours of the burning photos of the action shall be dropped on your Mosques.  It will then be on your heads the Koran is burnt as to kill our people is a direct request for our act.

A big picture of Smokey the bear saying," only you can stop forest fires."

[Godot showed up]

Not sure I understand this anymore.



I have reread the intire forum again and one thing keeps giving me a hard time.

This faith caused a dozen or so believers to burn to death in one way or another thousands of our citizens--Right ?

Now one person in this country says he will burn a freeking book, their Holy book of one out of millions  in print world wide.

Tomorrow I will buy or better yet steal a Koran, and cook BBQ ribs over it.   Then I shall dance with glee as the Muslims did after killing my people by fire, smoke and explosion.
I just do not know what this generation of Americans has turned into.
Bunch of girley-boys.  Yes we will fight back when we are personally assaulted ,but , when it comes to strangers--- we just feel sorry for their loss and hope the cops find the bad guys.

Give me a chance to set their little asses on fire.

Cargo planes with millions of leaflets that are to dropped on their nasty heads----          --------- Attention------

                           For each American service male or female killed or injured by your people,  100 books of the Koran will be burnt.   Within 24 hours of the burning photos of the action shall be dropped on your Mosques.  It will then be on your heads the Koran is burnt as to kill our people is a direct request for our act.

A big picture of Smokey the bear saying," only you can stop forest fires."

  Brava! Brava! Well said Vesta! You have put my feelings on this matter into words perfectly. Marvelous post.

[rich_t]

Burn it.

It's just paper.

I wouldn't get bent out of shape if someone burned a Christian Bible.

My walk with God is not that shallow.  It's not the physical document that counts.  It is the content; which can't be destroyed by merely burning a few copies of it.

[Thor]

Nope...if I had a gun ( I don't own one) and somebody shot at me, I'd shoot back....and hope I killed the son of a bitch.

I just think to burn a book revered by many is....(We all know that not every single Muslim is not an evil person. Probably not even a majority are. Different yes, evil and crazy? No).....is a childish act. Just as is burning a country's flag, a leader in effigy, a Bible or Constitution, regardless of who does it. When a bunch of so-called adults do stuff like this, to me it's kind of a cowardly act, which is ultimately a good thing. Human beings are not physically hurt when stuff like this is done....all it does is make the do-er and his co-horts, feel important and powerful in their own mind, and offend and create moral outrage in the individuals who have respect for what was burned.

A Koran is just a book to me, full of words....it is not "Holy" to me. The Bible, however, is "Holy" to me, yet it is not to you. To you, it's just a book of words, which you may or may not respect. That is your choice. I, personally, am not going to be offended either way....but that's just me. Though I am not a Jew, I respect the Torah, as it is a "Holy" book to many of my friends, and to many people that I respect.

Your argument is that it makes a "statement", that it's a mortal insult. It may be a moral insult, but not a mortal one.

Gathering up all of the evil leaders that could be found....put them in a building and blow it up....that would be a mortal insult ...and one I would have no trouble standing behind.

[Thor]

From my "friend" Robert Salaam:

  For the record, if they burned every Qur'an on Earth, they wouldn't diminish God's message one bit, we are the only religion that could just rewrite it again from memory. May God bless our Hafiz brothers and sisters!

He's a Muslim "Convert".....

So........ he doesn't really care. That said, too bad that the other Muslims don't think like him.