primitives whining about government pensions

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8898381

Oh my.

Goldstein1984  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-07-10 03:03 PM
Original message
 
Important Reading for Public Employees with Pensions
 
As a former State of Alaska employee with a defined benefit pension that is PART OF MY COMPENSATION, this troubles me:

From the article: "If you work for a state or local government, start saving money outside of the pension plan if you haven’t already, because that plan may not last for as long as you need it."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/your-money/07money.ht...

truedelphi  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-07-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. These plans are being demonized - as though state, county 

And Federal employees didn't contribute. And as though their employers didn't contribute.

In many cases, such employees have little in the way of Social Security -as the government pension plans allow individuals to avoid paying into social security.

So people relying on them are totally screwed, now that the current mantra is "public pensions bad."

Goldstein1984  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-07-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. When I was working for the State of Alaska I was earning half of what I could have earned doing a similar job on the other side of the table. Those pensions are one of the few things that made the state jobs competitive when trying to attract qualified people. (The other two being somewhat flexible hours in some jobs, and state jobs being a good place to put a few years of experience on a resume after college.) It was part of my compensation package, and it's owed.

You know, I've heard that argument before; in fact, I had a brother who oftentimes used it.

It's never sounded credible to me; I always just suspected the person was "good enough" for governmental employment, but couldn't cut it in private-enterprise employment.

Obamanaut  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-07-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. Which gov pension plans allow individuals to avoid paying into SS?

laughingliberal  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-07-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
5. When I worked at a state hospital in TX, we paid into the state retirement fund and not SS.

I believe it's the same for state employees here in NV.

Obamanaut  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-07-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
6. I paid into SS while a state employee in Fla.

havocmom  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-07-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
 
8. Same with me in Montana

Paying into both, unlikely to live to see any of it back

And it is NOT some special gift, it is part of the compensation for work that was seriously underpaid, as mentioned by others in this thread. It galls to work hard for the public, making less than prevailing wage for similar work in private sector, but knowing serving the public is damned important, then be demonized for a pension and insurance benefits, after paying hefty payroll deductions for both.

My husband is a federal employee. He pays a lot for the group insurance, employer, the US taxpayer pays some. He pays into SS and also an agency retirement fund. His employer, the US taxpayer, pays some. He gets about 1/50th what taxpayers have to pay private consultants for what he provides them. Most people where I live do not pay into SS or even income tax. All their needs come off the top of their family corporation farms and every one of them 'makes' only EXACTLY the top amount of 'income' they can have and not pay taxes on. They all drive trucks worth more than our home. They travel, we don't. They thrive when they take his advice and accept the help he can give them.

And they call him a parasite.

Lisa0825  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-07-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
10. I cuurently work for a TX university hospital, and pay into both the state fund (TRS) and SS.

truedelphi  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-07-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. County of Marin (Calif) employees pay into their pension plan, 

Do not pay into Social Security, and it is managed, I believe by the state.

And both Meg Whitman and Jerry Brown are saying that those plans are not good for the state's budget.

I hope both of them defer from receiving any monies from state pension plans if elected.

(Right now there is this huge scandal way down in town of Bell Calif. Using closed meetings, the City Mayor, and all other city council members voted themselves in HUGE SALARIES. I mean, the town has 40,000 people, and the mayor was getting over 700,000. They say they did this because once in office, you are awarded your pension plan, not on an average of what you made, but based on your three highed salaried years of office.)

Hmmm.

Isn't Bell, California one of those places run by a Democrat party machine?

[Tucker]

And all this time they lived under the delusional misconception that they were insulated from the real world. Maybe that's why they choose to not live in it.

[diesel driver]

havocmom  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-07-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
 
...Most people where I live do not pay into SS or even income tax. All their needs come off the top of their family corporation farms and every one of them 'makes' only EXACTLY the top amount of 'income' they can have and not pay taxes on. They all drive trucks worth more than our home. They travel, we don't.

Damn those EVIL rich farmers!

[docstew]

And it is NOT some special gift, it is part of the compensation for work that was seriously underpaid, as mentioned by others in this thread. It galls to work hard for the public, making less than prevailing wage for similar work in private sector, but knowing serving the public is damned important, then be demonized for a pension and insurance benefits

And yet, these are the people who want to cut military pensions and benefits...

[Ballygrl]

I was listening to Larry Kudlow today and he said at 1 time people took State and Federal jobs for job security and not the pension, then the unions starting getting bold.

[franksolich]

I was listening to Larry Kudlow today and he said at 1 time people took State and Federal jobs for job security and not the pension, then the unions starting getting bold.

That's very true.

It used to be--up until sometime in the 1970s--that government jobs were low-paying and had paltry retirement benefits, but their main attraction was perpetual job security. 

So one can imagine the sorts of people who were attracted to government jobs.

But the last 30-odd years, not only have government employees enjoyed perpetual job security, but they also caught up with, and exceeded, the pay-rates of those in private employment.....and ditto for retirement pensions.

With all due respect to those very few government employees who really work, I have little sympathy for the "plight" of civil servants.

[JohnnyReb]

2. When I was working for the State of Alaska I was earning half of what I could have earned doing a similar job on the other side of the table.

That's because you were doing less than half the work of that fellow on the other side of the table....not to mention that they didn't need a mountain of paperwork and an act of congress to fire your sorry ass on the other side of the table.

[true_blood]

I was listening to Larry Kudlow today and he said at 1 time people took State and Federal jobs for job security and not the pension, then the unions starting getting bold.

This is true.

[MrsSmith]

Sometimes, being a public employee can truly suck.  Mr Smith is a public employee because he teaches at a community college.  He pays into Social Security and into the state pension fund.  He has no option to avoid either payment, despite the fact that we know both systems are dying.  Because his check is already docked for 2 retirement systems, and because the state of Missouri has made it clear that his money still belongs to his ex-wife, he seriously cannot afford a 401K.

We've discussed this many times, and come to the conclusion that retirement just ain't gonna happen.  When he started this job, the college already had a music instructor...a 74-year-old music instructor.  That man died at 76, still working.  Mr Smith is going to have to do the same thing.