http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x4964Oh my.
Hey, it's a little early for the primitives to try to get numbered among the
Top Primitives of 2010; the year's barely half over, and we got the campaigns and elections coming up, guaranteed to provide much primitive fodder for the list.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 06:32 AM
THE NATURAL PRIMITIVE
Original message
Can I say it? **** Jobs.
Poverty should be a non-option for ALL American citizens - employed or not, willing to be employed or not, black, white, yellow, or red, willing to watch "Dog The Bounty Hunter" or not, and regardless of ANY other consideration.
Poverty, homelessness, and starvation should simply be non-options, period. Dignified survival should not be tied to employment - and frankly, if you disagree, I think you are are a regressive, a social Darwinist, and a throwback.
Flame away, slavery-lovers.
But work makes one free. Wasn't that a prominent socialist adage?
LiberalLoner (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree with you...I think we should have a minimum guaranteed standard of living...
I think we should all have food, shelter, and medical care as a basic right. Although I do think most of us will have to work, to be able to accomplish those things as a nation. Still, I think no one should ever go hungry, no one should ever die of exposure or from lack of medical care.
ThomCat (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes and no.
I agree that we desperately need a guaranteed standard of living. We need a real social safety net in this nation.
But "**** jobs" isn't the answer. People need to be access to work. We just need to make sure that it's work that leads to a chance for advancement and fulfillment and careers. Not just endless, boring, dead-end work that doesn't pay shit.
I really miss being able to work. I liked my career. Being disabled sucks.
And being "disabled" and not getting social security checks, sucks for the primitive too, I bet.
Sherman A1 (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. I agree and disagree
We should all have a dignified survival, but a job is more than just the income, it is also about pride in doing something (even if that work is pretty mindless), it is about social interaction at the job-site, it is about being responsible for completing a group of tasks, it's about so much more.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 07:48 AM
THE NATURAL PRIMITIVE
Response to Reply #4
5. Pride is a deadly sin
I'm not Catholic, but I agree that it is.
There is no value in work that does not meaningfully advance the human race. And most doesn't - and that which does is generally unpaid.
Sherman A1 (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Really?
So if I go to work, complete my assigned tasks (at a grocery store btw) and enjoy some self satisfaction in having given my employer a fair day's work for a fair's day pay (it's a union contract upon which I voted) then I have violated the sin of Pride?
Gaining self respect by earning my income through my work for these last 37 years (which btw I happen to be pretty good at) is prideful?
Enjoying conversations with my co-workers and the social interaction of same does not add to my (and hopefully their) life's experience??
Helping a customer who comes into the store where I work find a product that they want or even get a empty box or two so they can pack their kids things to go to college does not benefit society in some small way?
Interesting outlook on your part one must say.
stray cat (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. What will you give of your own to help your GOP neighbor
Who pays for everyone if no one makes any thing or does anything
qazplm (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-28-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. if you can work, you should unless you are raising a family or have a spouse or SO who is providing for your family.
If you can't work or can't find work but are seeking, then you should be supported by the government.
But the idea that you shouldn't live in "poverty" (which is a relative term so you will have to do a little better in defining exactly what the minimum standards are) even if you sit on your rear and aren't willing to be employed is not progressive or socially advanced, it's just silly.
Certainly homelessness and starvation should be non-options. But if a guy isn't willing to look for work, isn't willing to try, then he wants the benefits of society with none of the responsibility. Now I think such folks are limited in number, but I would provide job training and educational programs as a requirement for receiving aid. I would require actively seeking work as a requirement for unemployment, and I don't find either of those positions "regressive or Darwinist or a throwback."
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-29-10 12:10 AM
THE NATURAL PRIMITIVE
Response to Reply #8
10. And yet they are.
People's access to the necessities of life shouldn't depend on your *opinions* about whether or not they are "deserving."
To label anyone "undeserving" is very much socially-Darwinist and regressive. Sorry, but it just is.
To allow oneself to become so culturally indoctrinated and programmed as to be unable to see this is what is truly "silly."
