primitives discuss dope, mental illness

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x89899

Oh my.

BridgeTheGap (1000+ posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 09:49 AM
Original message
 
The Link Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia

Since the days of Reefer Madness, scientists have sought to understand the complex connection between marijuana and psychosis. Cannabis can cause short-term psychotic experiences, such as hallucinations and paranoia, even in healthy people, but researchers have also long noted a link between marijuana use and the chronic psychotic disorder, schizophrenia.

Repeatedly, studies have found that people with schizophrenia are about twice as likely to smoke pot as those who are unaffected. Conversely, data suggest that those who smoke cannabis are twice as likely to develop schizophrenia as nonsmokers. One widely publicized 2007 review of the research even concluded that trying marijuana just once was associated with a 40% increase in risk of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders.

But here's the conundrum: while marijuana went from being a secret shared by a small community of hepcats and beatniks in the 1940s and '50s to a rite of passage for some 70% of youth by the turn of the century, rates of schizophrenia in the U.S. have remained flat, or possibly declined. For as long as it has been tracked, schizophrenia has been found to affect about 1% of the population.

One explanation may be that the two factors are coincidental, not causal: perhaps people who have a genetic susceptibility to schizophrenia also happen to especially enjoy marijuana. Still, some studies suggest that smoking pot can actually trigger the disease earlier in individuals who are predisposed, and yet researchers still aren't seeing increases in the overall schizophrenia rate or decreases in the average age of onset.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2005559,...

corkhead  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. it causes "the munchies" too

so I've heard.

bemildred  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. I don't suppose anybody has bothered to ask the schizophrenics why they use it?

elocs  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
9. I suppose they do although DU doesn't want anything negative said about one of its gods.

Marijuana use "triggered" (triggered, not caused, for those who do not understand the difference) my goddaughter's schizophrenia when she was 17 and sent her into a full blown psychotic break. In the year and a half since then she has smoked pot again and each time it resulted in a stay for a couple of weeks in the psych ward.

She now knows that she cannot ever smoke pot again if she wants to live a normal life.

For those who believe that pot is totally harmless to everyone and could no way ever cause anything negative, please visit schizophrenia.com where there are thousands of posters who not only have schizophrenia or their family members and enlighten them about how they are all mistaken about marijuana use and the harm it causes to those who have schizophrenia. I'm sure they would be happy to give you their own experiences about it.

frylock  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
 
11. the high horse..

another one of DU's gods.

John Q. Citizen  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
 
12. Absolutes do not exist. Nothing is absolutley safe for everyone and anyone 100% of the time.

Fresh air kills bubble babies, because fresh air is alive. Bubble babies should not be forced to be exposed to fresh air.

People who are allergic to tomatoes are also allergic to cannabis. People who are allegic to tomatoes shouldn't consume tomato products or cannabis products.

But cannabis is just about as deadly as fresh air is; That is to say, that to the vast majority of the population cannabis doesn't pose a significant health risk. To a small few, yes it does. That small few would include people who are allergic to tomatoes and also your friend.

I'm a strong believer in being specific, concise, accurate and honest.

Pot isn't always harmless for everyone.

Pot is almost always harmless for everyone.

You know the word "canvass" is derived from the word cannabis, since that's what canvass was made from for centuries. People used canvasses to separate wheat from chaff. So when we were out knocking on doors for Obama 2 years ago we were "cannabising"

The article in the OP is interesting in that it presents a conundrum. If pot causes in increase in schizophrenia, then why doesn't an increase in the use of pot by the population result in in increase in the number of people who have schizophrenia?

I wouldn't try to argue with anyone who got poked in the eye with a dry cannabis stem that their eye didn't hurt. But I also wouldn't outlaw maple tress because one fell on somebodies house.

That's the issue that releases the passion. The legal issues. Because many people view the use of cannabis as a positive and helpful thing.

I've never heard anyone advocate for the forced use of cannabis. However I have often heard people arguing for the forced prohibition of cannabis. I've never found the reasons to be compelling in the least. I believe the forced prohibition of cannabis has hurt this country a lot. It's cost us treasure, lives, and knowledge. It's cost us many of our civil liberties.

But you are of course correct. Nothing is absolutely harmless 100% of the time in any context.

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. what a bunch of crap

Marijuana has been around for thousands of years, and used world-wide by a variety of different cultures for a wide-variety of different uses. If it caused insanity (in this case, schizophrenia {not as simple as a single definition }), it would have that stigma attached to it after centuries of use. It does not. Ergo, to try and draw correlations between Marijuana and the pop-psychology term 'schizophrenia' (which in and of itself discredits the study) is nothing more than fishing for results, and is not ultimately helpful, in my opinion.

BridgeTheGap (1000+ posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
 
5. From the article: "One explanation may be that the two factors are coincidental, not causal"

More than likely the case. Psychoactive substances may serve as a catalyst, triggering symptoms for people with underlying problems. Causation, as far as I know, has never been proven.

ensho  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
 
10. agree, a bunch of crap

saltpoint  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. What am I missing, because the stats cited are full of conditional ifs and maybes.The 2007 study is a stand-alone, isn't it? I can't imagine any compound, including THC, generating a near-half increase in psychotic disorders.

My conclusion is that there's no connection between the onset and prevalence of schizophrenia and the use, rare or repeated, of cannabis.

If the percentage of people suffering from schizophrenia remains at an extremely low rate across all demographics, including pot smokers, then its presence as a disorder would not appear to have any connection to cannabis use

LiberalArkie  (706 posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. People with schizophrenia tend to self medicate, with alcohol and other drugs.

So there would be link, but probably not like the article indicates. Maybe some latent schizophrenia that pot brings out, or stress, or alcohol brings out, but it was still there first.

Of course that is just my opinion from growing up with and have some friends that developed clinical schizophrenia.

bemildred  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jul-23-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
 
7. Yeah, nicotine, alcohol, pot.

Seen it.

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 10:15 AM
THE SKUMBAG PRIMITIVE, #14 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message

8. It could be that pot either suppresses the symptoms (self-medicating) or.... 

... makes it easier to "tune-in" to the "messages" that some schizophrenics see and hear.

Hmmm.

So now we know what happened to the maudlin waif primitive, the "Mythsaje" primitive.

He went nuts, and had to be put away.

[delilahmused]

Of course, they've decided what their "right" opinion is and facts be damned.

Cindie

[Randy]

Of course, they've decided what their "right" opinion is and facts be damned.

Cindie

It's easy to spot the dopers in that thread isn't it? They all live up de-nile river.

[vesta111]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x89899

Oh my.

Hmmm.

So now we know what happened to the maudlin waif primitive, the "Mythsaje" primitive.

He went nuts, and had to be put away.

 Sorry Frank but mental illness has been around since the early days of humans.

What do we blame  --Little boots on, Smoking pot ?

Everyone reacts differently to drugs, as you have read the forum, you know full well that different pain relievers cause big problem for some of us.

Everything we ingest causes changes to the body and brain.  We get minerals and vitamins from our food. some foods  our body rejects and causes allergies.


In some of our lives we have had thousands of vaccinations and drugs put into our body's.  We have over the counter medication and the RX prescriptions.

Who knows what the build up of all these artificial man made drugs are doing to us. We know that he body itself is fine but do any of these drugs leach into our brain.??

To blame pot smoking for mental illness is about the same as blaming Tobacco smoking, drinking chocolate or taking in a caffeine products.

My apologies to any Mormons out there.

[Ballygrl]

I posted about a month ago in another drug thread where the connection was made between marijuana use and mental illness including schizophrenia. If they would read this forum they would've known about this sooner!

[Ballygrl]

John Q. Citizen  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jul-23-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
 
12. <Snipped>

The article in the OP is interesting in that it presents a conundrum. If pot causes in increase in schizophrenia, then why doesn't an increase in the use of pot by the population result in in increase in the number of people who have schizophrenia?

Marijuana usage is NOT only linked to Schizophrenia, it's also linked to Anxiety, Depression and other mental illnesses, but completely ignore that. I smoked pot 3 times in my life, the 1st time I smoked it? I had my 1st Anxiety attack within 2 weeks, was I predisposed to Anxiety Disorder? possibly since it did run in my family, but did pot trigger it? absolutely yes IMO.

[debk]

To blame pot smoking for mental illness is about the same as blaming Tobacco smoking, drinking chocolate or taking in a caffeine products.

To blame any one thing as the cause of mental illness is impossible.

Much of the cause of mental illness can be traced to genetics...with or without outside influence accompaniment.

Many things can be a"trigger". An event, a family/environmental situation, drugs - of any kind, alcohol.

There are no absolutes in anything and while marijuana use may be a trigger, I seriously doubt it is the sole cause of mental illnesses.  

And no...I have never, ever tried marijuana, not even a puff.....yet, I have depression issues, as do several family members, past and present.

[franksolich]

To blame any one thing as the cause of mental illness is impossible.

Much of the cause of mental illness can be traced to genetics...with or without outside influence accompaniment.

Many things can be a"trigger". An event, a family/environmental situation, drugs - of any kind, alcohol.

There are no absolutes in anything and while marijuana use may be a trigger, I seriously doubt it is the sole cause of mental illnesses.  

And no...I have never, ever tried marijuana, not even a puff.....yet, I have depression issues, as do several family members, past and present.

Right, madam, it's a "trigger," not a cause of something.

And sometimes it's best to leave a trigger unpulled.

In my instance, very early in life I noticed that refined sugar and refined sugar products caused "light-headedness" to happen with me.

Well, given my circumstances, being light-headed is one of the worse possible things that should happen to me.

And so I've never pulled that trigger.

Which would also go a long way in explaining why franksolich remains diabetes-free, despite being three decades older than when the parents and brothers and sisters first got it.

Some triggers are just best left unpulled.

[debk]

Right, madam, it's a "trigger," not a cause of something.

And sometimes it's best to leave a trigger unpulled.

In my instance, very early in life I noticed that refined sugar and refined sugar products caused "light-headedness" to happen with me.

Well, given my circumstances, being light-headed is one of the worse possible things that should happen to me.

And so I've never pulled that trigger.

Which would also go a long way in explaining why franksolich remains diabetes-free, despite being three decades older than when the parents and brothers and sisters first got it.

Some triggers are just best left unpulled.

Yep.

Unfortunately, most will pull the triggers first....and suffer the consequences.