obamas should put all the lazy, the inept and the DUmb on Gov't payroll

[Tucker]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8699524

Better Believe It  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 01:36 PM
Original message
"Government should directly hire the unemployed and put them to work doing useful things"   Updated at 2:39 PM
   
LET’S END UNEMPLOYMENT ONCE AND FOR ALL
By Paul F. deLespinasse - A Blog
Professor emeritus of political science and computer science, Adrian College
July 4, 2010

Buried in discouraging unemployment numbers recently released was proof that a straightforward way to end unemployment (and not just reduce it) actually exists.

The private sector of the economy created 83,000 additional jobs in June, but total employment fell because 225,000 temporary census workers were let go.

The census workers had real jobs and these were additional jobs that reduced unemployment. They demonstrate that there are two possible ways to reduce unemployment, not just one.

The government has been trying to reduce unemployment by “stimulating” the economy so that private employers would become willing and able to put more people to work. But it is unclear how well this strategy has worked.

The alternative is for government itself to hire the unemployed and put them to doing useful things. This is what the Census Bureau did, and back during the Great Depression this is what the WPA and other government programs did. In Oregon many public improvements, including Timberline Lodge at Mt. Hood, were produced by these “make-work” programs. The only public swimming pool in Redmond, where I lived during my grade-school years, was constructed by one of these programs.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt felt that it was better to pay people to do something than to pay them to do nothing. They could be doing something constructive, and there was more dignity in working than in just receiving a dole.

There is plenty of work that needs doing. It would seem, therefore, that we shouldn’t be repeatedly extending eligibility for unemployment compensation payments. Instead, the government should offer to hire everyone who is willing and able to work but cannot find another job and pay them the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour for 40 hours a week.

People could receive unemployment compensation while their eligibility remains, and then take one of the new jobs, or they could forgo unemployment compensation and go directly into a job.

As soon as they can find private sector jobs that pay better, of course these people will do so. But in the meantime even minimum wage employment will be a lot better than nothing.

If all 14.6 million currently unemployed took such government jobs, and if on top of minimum wages the government paid $400 per month towards medical insurance for each employee, it would cost about $24 billion per month, or $289 billion per year, not including administrative costs.

We have certainly been paying at least this much for the current “stimulus” programs whose results are debatable and which at best have only slightly reduced unemployment rather than eliminating it.

If we have a pool we want to fill with water, does it make more sense to turn on a faucet and fill it up, or to hire pilots to seed the clouds and try to make it rain? Cloud-seeding, like our current approach to dealing with unemployment, would be discredited “trickle down” theory with a vengeance!

Why not go with a straightforward approach whose costs and results are measurable, which has worked in the past, and which could put a total end to unemployment rather than just reducing it?

http://gusquibble.blogspot.com/2010/07/lets-end-unemplo...

I would make a few changes in the writers proposal. Increase the pay to a minimum living wage, perhaps $10.00 per hour and include Medicare eligibility for the worker and their family if they don't have healthcare insurance coverage. BBI

Looking for a DUmmy of the year vote.

aquart low  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Duh!
   
Should have happened Obama's second week in office.

defendandprotect  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. We need to OVERTURN the trade agreements . . ..
   
and reregulate capitalism ---

this article is a distraction from what is really going on --

We don't need Americans working for minimum wage --

we need workers uniting together as all labor should -- and fighting for

ending stagnant wages!!

And jobs for everyone --

even if we have to go to the 4 day week and/or 5 hour workday --

but nothing positive will happen until labor unities --

until American organize --

senior citizens, unemployed, unions, feminists, anti-war -- everyone has to come together!!

We should also notice that while the GOP is CREATING fake support -- as usual --

the Democratic Party is failing to call out its REAL SUPPORT . . . ignoring them!

When they're not kicking them -- !!

Wouldn't do any good. Why stop sending jobs to Mexico when the Mexicans are here doing the jobs?

Better Believe It  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. The labor movement should fight for "jobs for all" at a living wage.   Updated at 2:39 PM
   

The problem is the top union officials have not been.

We need a mass movement in the street demanding jobs. The labor movement has the ability and resources to build such a movement. However, if top union officials continue to suffer from a self-inflicted paralysis, other worker led organizations outside of the "official" labor movement will build such a movement.

Union control/power is dead in this country.

defendandprotect  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. This article calls for ending unemployment benefits . . . making people work for
   
Edited on Tue Jul-06-10 02:55 PM by defendandprotect
minimum wage!

Better than living as a parasite.

EstimatedProphet  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. But government employees aren't really employed!
   
Watch. Someone will make this claim. Government workers don't produce an item, so they aren't really "employed".

Regardless of the fact that it's simply wrong (does a doctor with a private practice produce anything?), it neglects an important fact: a jobs program such as the one the writer described puts money in the hands of people who then use it to pay their bills, but groceries, clothing, go out to dinner, etc. In other words, the money goes back into the economy, and allows for more demand, which allows for more money to go to supply creation, which pays more workers, which circulates more money, which pays for more demand, etc. etc. So, contrast that scenario where money starts circulating through the economy and begins to increase demand again with the teabilly brain-fart idea that gummint workers aren't employed so it doesn't count to get money into their hands.

What do Government employees produce?

Medium size campfire.

Not one person asked how this DUmbassed plan would be paid for.

[jukin]

That was what was sold as the stimulus...DUmbass.

[AllosaursRus]

A doctor doesn't produce anything? What kind of hogwash is this?

Hey stooooopid, if I can't work do to illness, and Doc fixes me and sends me back to work, what exactly do you call that? While I am off, I am not producing squat!

[JohnnyReb]

obamas should put all the lazy, the inept and the DUmb on Gov't payroll

Hell, I thought he had already done that?

[USA4ME]

President Franklin D. Roosevelt felt that it was better to pay people to do something than to pay them to do nothing.

Oh my, how the Dem party has changed.

.

[Carl]

Do they ever discuss where the funding comes from?

[Tucker]

Do they ever discuss where the funding comes from?

Raise taxes on the 53% who pay taxes, of course.

[thundley4]

Let's start by re-instituting "workfare" and get rid of welfare. If people want a government handout, let them do something to earn it.  Lots of trash along the roads to be picked up.

[BlueStateSaint]

Let's start by re-instituting "workfare" and get rid of welfare. If people want a government handout, let them do something to earn it.  Lots of trash along the roads to be picked up.

 

[zeitgeist]

Do they ever discuss where the funding comes from?

O'balmy's stash where else?

Plus, I can hardly wait to put all the Feds on Medicare.  Talk about a severe down grade to their medical insurance situation.  Federal Blue Cross is considered the "gold standard" of health care plans.  If you have a FBCBS card billing clerks will genuflect when you whip it out.    

I would make a few changes in the writers proposal. Increase the pay to a minimum living wage, perhaps $10.00 per hour and include Medicare eligibility for the worker and their family if they don't have healthcare insurance coverage. BBI

[Carl]

Raise taxes on the 53% who pay taxes, of course.

Which of course means that they will never be able to afford expansion and more workers.
DUmmy economics is the equivalent to a perpetual motion machine,something that can never work.

[miskie]

There are far too many people enjoying their two year paid vacation - putting them to work has three immediate effects...

A ) makes them earn their keep.
B ) gets a lot of jobs done that many people don't like doing.
C ) makes it that much more difficult for illegals to find work.

Imagine clean, graffiti-free cities.
mowed lawns along roadsides and highways - dead and dangerous brush and trees removed.
fully repaired sidewalks and streets.

etc etc etc.

The fourth effect will be to motivate the unemployed to get a job doing work he or she prefers to do -- And to do it well to avoid needing to go back to work for the Government again. I see nothing but upside to this sort of program.

[MrsSmith]

Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't these the same people that were furious about the idea that a welfare mom might be required to work 10 or 15 hours a week, or get job training and actually search for a real job?   

[Ballygrl]

If people are collecting benefits such as food stamps, welfare checks and rental assistance, then why can't we just hire those people to do the Government jobs and their pay would be those benefits?

[Ballygrl]

Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't these the same people that were furious about the idea that a welfare mom might be required to work 10 or 15 hours a week, or get job training and actually search for a real job?   

OMG, were they?

[MrsSmith]

OMG, were they?

I believe so...of course, that was a few years ago, under a Puke President.  I'm sure being "enslaved by the government" was far more frightening then.   

[DumbAss Tanker]

My God is that stupid.  What sort of 'Useful things?'  Providing health care in competition with the private sector, thereby driving down jobs in the private sector while raising numbers (But not net productivity) on the government end?  Indisputably useful but unpopular ag work - but then what of all the 'Undocumented' labor, who will be unemployed no less despite not appearing in official or 'nonfarm' payroll numbers in the first place?  Or sorting recycling and landfill trash, of some use but not enough to justify paying much for it now, would these employees be paid at government scale rates which is probably an order of magnitude higher than the economic value of the work involved?  Would they apply their efforts to green energy programs, bankrupting any private sector businesses despite the already-massive artificial government subsidies, yet with the low per-worker productivity of any government bureaucracy to ensure we get even less while spending even more?  And who pays for all this - taxes from the income earned in government salaries only defrays the cost of the jobs, it can't fully fund it by a long shot...user fees or other charges to the beneficiaries of the 'Useful work' only displace payments from the private sector to the public, the quantum of any good or service that can be marketed at a given price point does not change by having more suppliers, instead it drives down the price point, to the severe detriment of any existing suppliers.

Damn.  At least this tool wasn't an economics professor, just a BS-artiste poly-sci hack.   

[PatriotGame]

EstimatedProphet  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Jul-06-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. But government employees aren't really employed!
  
Watch. Someone will make this claim. Government workers don't produce an item, so they aren't really "employed".

Regardless of the fact that it's simply wrong (does a doctor with a private practice produce anything?), it neglects an important fact: a jobs program such as the one the writer described puts money in the hands of people who then use it to pay their bills, but groceries, clothing, go out to dinner, etc. In other words, the money goes back into the economy, and allows for more demand, which allows for more money to go to supply creation, which pays more workers, which circulates more money, which pays for more demand, etc. etc. So, contrast that scenario where money starts circulating through the economy and begins to increase demand again with the teabilly brain-fart idea that gummint workers aren't employed so it doesn't count to get money into their hands.

Well golly gee you overestimated pustule, you just described a fundamental principal of (gASSp) CAPITALISM!
Ever hear of this nation's DEFENSE budget? That be the federal 'gummint' using taxpayer dollars to 'employ' people. Aside from the military people and establishment, which is a Constitutionally mandated requirement, there is the private industry civilian workforce. Oh the HORROR of using tax dollars to employ Americans in good jobs with great benefits. Many of them engineers, top in their field. Getting out of bed, going to work every day, advancing this nation's technology brain trust, creating technology spin-offs that benefit the entire world's population. If not for ARPA then DARPA, your little Internet would NOT exist and I know for a fact that Mr. Cerf was no DUmmy and every penny of the technology that CREATED the Internet came from DEFENSE BUDGETS!
Do we need to mention NASA here too? Take a gander at your Teflon coated bong - NASA invented Teflon, with taxpayer funding.

Fracking morons....

Do my nation a favor - guzzle a gallon of gas and suck-start a match!

[MrsSmith]

10 NASA Inventions You Might Use Every Day

by Cristen Conger

10. Invisible Braces
9. Scratch-resistant Lenses
8. Memory Foam
7. Ear Thermometer
6. Shoe Insoles
5. Long-distance Telecommunications
4. Adjustable Smoke Detector
3. Safety Grooving (channel water away from tires)
2. Cordless Tools
1. Water Filters

http://science.howstuffworks.com/ten-nasa-inventions.htm

And, from my own knowledge, thousands of advances in medical technology.  NASA is one of the few government agencies that produce something that is useful instead of turning taxpayer dollars into regulations and red tape.  No wonder the Dims cut their budget just as fast as the military...they really can't stand things that can be useful to or protect the "little people."